How the hell do you trade?! - Page 2

JimG · 07-12-2006, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orwell

Note - a trading block option is NOT (or at least does not have to be) synonomous with being able to "rip off" the AI.

It is if the trading AI is weak. So maybe it was easier to make the actual trading interface harder than make the trading AI better. And once the first few patchs are done Markus can switch his focus to the trading AI then re-enable the trading block. Or maybe he just didnt want to look like he was playing catch up anymore in this area when theres other stuff to do.

DodgerGEP · 07-12-2006, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zitofan75

Well not quite. If they tell you no way they will usually tell you what you could do to make it work. I've sometimes made counter offers as well that have worked out so I'm not sure if maybe you're not missing something?

Yeah, but when they reply with those players, it tends to be your top players plus it rarely strays from the major league roster. I already know that everyone in the league wants a Todd Helton or Francisco Liriano. It'd just be nicer to add more variation to it. They could flat out reject the trade and end conversations, tell ya you're quite a bit off, an established player away, money away, a prospect away...and so on. You still would have to work to make the trade work but it would give you an idea where you currently stand.

megamanmatt · 07-12-2006, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DodgerGEP

Yeah, but when they reply with those players, it tends to be your top players plus it rarely strays from the major league roster. I already know that everyone in the league wants a Todd Helton or Francisco Liriano. It'd just be nicer to add more variation to it. They could flat out reject the trade and end conversations, tell ya you're quite a bit off, an established player away, money away, a prospect away...and so on. You still would have to work to make the trade work but it would give you an idea where you currently stand.

V6 had the same problem as it only gave people it would accept from your ML roster. I wouldn't mind the Trading Block back or even the shop player options if they were fixed and worked how they were supposed to. As they existed they made it easy to rip AI teams off. If it continues to do that like it did in V6 then I'd rather not have it back at all.

The Wolf · 07-12-2006, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by megamanmatt

V6 had the same problem as it only gave people it would accept from your ML roster. I wouldn't mind the Trading Block back or even the shop player options if they were fixed and worked how they were supposed to. As they existed they made it easy to rip AI teams off. If it continues to do that like it did in V6 then I'd rather not have it back at all.

So it gets brought back as an option that is off by default. That way if we want it, and a lot of us do, we can have it. If you don't want it, then you never turn it on.

Cowboys3356 · 07-12-2006, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilkiburger

I cant seem to trade anyone, so maybe im doing it wrong. Can someone inform me how to do it cheers

Maybe you should post this in the New to OOTP thread or try reading the manual.

Marc Duffy · 07-12-2006, 09:07 AM

What was so good about the block? Seems there is a divide here.

Raidergoo · 07-12-2006, 09:28 AM

I could not say.

Trading in old versions was so broken that it was not trading; it was actually looting. I could turn a roster over in a half hour every day of the week, and grab all of the talent, and all at the lowest payroll. My old AAA ball teams could have gone .500 if they were in the Majors.

cabot41 · 07-12-2006, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

What was so good about the block? Seems there is a divide here.

I think people (myself included) are conflating two features from 6.5 here: the trading block and the "shop player" feature.

The trading block (whih I liked) let you know who was imminently available in the league as a whole. I found this feature to be very usefull when I had an injury and I need a quick fix. I actually think that the block should have been used more extensively in 6.5, IRL GMs know when a team is willing to listen to offers for Soriano, but are not looking to trade Dontrelle (unless they get blown away).

The "Shop Player" feature allowed you to take a player from your own teamthat you were sick of, click a button, and immediately get a list of players other teams would be willing to trade for your guy one-for-one. You could use this to either immediately make a move for one of the listed players, or you could use the list as a way to gauge the intest other teams had in your player and start from there.

The problem with Shop Player is that I think a lot of people feel it allowed you to easily rip off the AI, because a lot of times at least one team would be willing to trade a good prospect for your aging spare part. A prospect you woudn't have even considered asking for if you had to build the trade from the ground up (or perhaps, would only ask for if you obessively clicked on every player in the organization). I tried to not use Shop Player in that way, but I certainly saw the rip off potential.

So, I was a fan of the block but could take or leave Shop Player, for those reasons.

megamanmatt · 07-12-2006, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf

So it gets brought back as an option that is off by default. That way if we want it, and a lot of us do, we can have it. If you don't want it, then you never turn it on.

I disagree. I'm not trying to be a jerk here so just read before you lynch me please.

The trading block I can see but only if implimented right. Trading block should be nothing more or nothing less than players who people want to be moved. I don't think the AI should really look at the trading block very much, if at all. The trading black has always been a feature mostly to give the player a sense of who the AI wants to move. One of the best FM/EHM features I like is the ability to designate the importance of a player to the team. I think that is a much better solution in the long run as it does both show who the AI would like to move and allows the AI to look at who you want to be moved, thus solving both problems at once. I think that should be what we work towards because, IMHO, it makes more sense than to create two options that do basically the same thing. I'm all for the trading block being added in 2006 but in the future I think we should move away from it.

ey215 · 07-12-2006, 01:22 PM

Not to beat a dead horse but...

Why bring back a feature that has obviously divided the community whether the "Trading Block" or "Shop Player" feature when there is the opportunity to innoviate and make the game more immersive?

Don't bring them back in the old formats, but use media interaction to make players available/unavailable. We've all heard the media reports, ESPN Radio, si.com, etc stating that "Sources inside Franchise X say that they are talking to teams about Player Y.". Even, "Palyer Y wants to be traded to a contender".

Yes, I'm for bringing a feature back, but not in it's 6.5 form. Let's make the game more immersive!

Mike Donlin · 07-12-2006, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ey215

Not to beat a dead horse but...

Why bring back a feature that has obviously divided the community whether the "Trading Block" or "Shop Player" feature when there is the opportunity to innoviate and make the game more immersive?

Don't bring them back in the old formats, but use media interaction to make players available/unavailable. We've all heard the media reports, ESPN Radio, si.com, etc stating that "Sources inside Franchise X say that they are talking to teams about Player Y.". Even, "Palyer Y wants to be traded to a contender".

Yes, I'm for bringing a feature back, but not in it's 6.5 form. Let's make the game more immersive!

That would be wonderful. Still, some people will want a list they can consult rather than have to pore back through old news announcements.

Let me second the differences between trading blocks and shop player around function. I rarely used the shop player around function, although I did obsessively see what other teams would give me for a certain player by scrolling through teams on the player trade page. That is why the trading is much better for 2006: you have to put together a package for a certain player, not see what everyone else will offer for that player. It makes it more difficult and more realistic.

But it would be nice to see which players teams would like to move, and for teams to make offers for players you would like to move.

ey215 · 07-12-2006, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Donlin

That would be wonderful. Still, some people will want a list they can consult rather than have to pore back through old news announcements.

Let me second the differences between trading blocks and shop player around function. I rarely used the shop player around function, although I did obsessively see what other teams would give me for a certain player by scrolling through teams on the player trade page. That is why the trading is much better for 2006: you have to put together a package for a certain player, not see what everyone else will offer for that player. It makes it more difficult and more realistic.

But it would be nice to see which players teams would like to move, and for teams to make offers for players you would like to move.

Isn't that what the shortlist is for? News story breaks that the Red Sox want to trade Manny, you shortlist Manny, you have a list of players teams are willing to move.

That being said, I would like the ability to have multiple shortlists (as in FM) so you could have a trade bait shortlist, as well as a "Hey I might want this guy in the future" shortlist.

ey215 · 07-12-2006, 01:50 PM

Dola...

Just brainstorming a bit here, but what if there were multiple shortlists, one of which being a default "Trade Bait" shortlist. Then have the option to automatically add/remove players from that list when stories come out about them.

It could give the day-to-day players some immersion of media interaction, but still automatically provide a list of players for those looking for the automation.

Zitofan75 · 07-12-2006, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DodgerGEP

Yeah, but when they reply with those players, it tends to be your top players plus it rarely strays from the major league roster. I already know that everyone in the league wants a Todd Helton or Francisco Liriano. It'd just be nicer to add more variation to it. They could flat out reject the trade and end conversations, tell ya you're quite a bit off, an established player away, money away, a prospect away...and so on. You still would have to work to make the trade work but it would give you an idea where you currently stand.

True but I've then made counter offers with other players not based on the lists and sometimes they've been accepted. It's not a one click and you're done deal like the old version but gives you some opportunity for back and forth with the opposing manager and personally I like it.

DodgerGEP · 07-12-2006, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zitofan75

True but I've then made counter offers with other players not based on the lists and sometimes they've been accepted. It's not a one click and you're done deal like the old version but gives you some opportunity for back and forth with the opposing manager and personally I like it.

Yeah, I like that too that it doesn't get taken care of immediately except on the trading deadline and during the winter meetings. I'm just looking for a lil more substance in a responce that Accepted or No Way!!

DodgerGEP · 07-12-2006, 04:48 PM

I agree that the shop a player was a good way to rip teams off in earlier versions so I never really used it. Maybe instead of actually offering players they'd trade if could just tell you if the team is interested in your player. At least you'd know what teams you should be negotiating with.

Zitofan75 · 07-12-2006, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DodgerGEP

I agree that the shop a player was a good way to rip teams off in earlier versions so I never really used it. Maybe instead of actually offering players they'd trade if could just tell you if the team is interested in your player. At least you'd know what teams you should be negotiating with.

I just had a thought, what if your scout might occasionally pass along some gossip about the needs of other teams? This might be enhanced if he was just scouting the club. So maybe he scouts a team and tells you, "these guys are in the market for a short stop" or "gee, it looks like they have an excess of right fielders" something like that.

DodgerGEP · 07-12-2006, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zitofan75

I just had a thought, what if your scout might occasionally pass along some gossip about the needs of other teams? This might be enhanced if he was just scouting the club. So maybe he scouts a team and tells you, "these guys are in the market for a short stop" or "gee, it looks like they have an excess of right fielders" something like that.

Good idea. I like that. It'd be sweet if they even knew they were looking for a young SS to take over for Omar Vizquel in a few years.

cabot41 · 07-14-2006, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DodgerGEP

I agree that the shop a player was a good way to rip teams off in earlier versions so I never really used it. Maybe instead of actually offering players they'd trade if could just tell you if the team is interested in your player. At least you'd know what teams you should be negotiating with.

I think this is an excellent suggestion and put over on the feature wish list. This would both allay some of the "trading takes too long" concerns by pointing people in the right direction, if implemented properly it also wouldn't be a cheat sheet to rip off the AI (since you would still have to contruct the trade from scratch).

I hope this can happen in the future.

The Wolf · 07-14-2006, 08:51 AM

There's a really easy solution for this. SI needs to bring back both the trading block and shop player as options that are off by default. This will make everyone happy, as those who love them can use them and those who don't want them can just never turn them on.

The "you can use the shop player option to rip off the AI" argument doesn't hold any water, because you can do that now in OOTP 2006 if you want to by hitting "Force Trade."

07-12-2006, 01:22 PM	#30
ey215 All Star Reserve Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Woodstock, GA Posts: 581	Not to beat a dead horse but... Why bring back a feature that has obviously divided the community whether the "Trading Block" or "Shop Player" feature when there is the opportunity to innoviate and make the game more immersive? Don't bring them back in the old formats, but use media interaction to make players available/unavailable. We've all heard the media reports, ESPN Radio, si.com, etc stating that "Sources inside Franchise X say that they are talking to teams about Player Y.". Even, "Palyer Y wants to be traded to a contender". Yes, I'm for bringing a feature back, but not in it's 6.5 form. Let's make the game more immersive! __________________ "It is a haunted game in which every player is measured against the ghosts of all who have gone before. Most of all, it is about time and timelessness, speed and grace, failure and loss, imperishable hope - and coming home." Ken Burns, Baseball

07-12-2006, 01:50 PM	#33
ey215 All Star Reserve Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Woodstock, GA Posts: 581	Dola... Just brainstorming a bit here, but what if there were multiple shortlists, one of which being a default "Trade Bait" shortlist. Then have the option to automatically add/remove players from that list when stories come out about them. It could give the day-to-day players some immersion of media interaction, but still automatically provide a list of players for those looking for the automation. __________________ "It is a haunted game in which every player is measured against the ghosts of all who have gone before. Most of all, it is about time and timelessness, speed and grace, failure and loss, imperishable hope - and coming home." Ken Burns, Baseball

07-12-2006, 09:07 AM	#26
Marc Duffy SI Marketing Wizard Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Old Street, London Posts: 4,741	What was so good about the block? Seems there is a divide here.

07-12-2006, 09:28 AM	#27
Raidergoo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 9,005	I could not say. Trading in old versions was so broken that it was not trading; it was actually looting. I could turn a roster over in a half hour every day of the week, and grab all of the talent, and all at the lowest payroll. My old AAA ball teams could have gone .500 if they were in the Majors.

07-12-2006, 04:48 PM	#36
DodgerGEP Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Greeley, CO Posts: 25	I agree that the shop a player was a good way to rip teams off in earlier versions so I never really used it. Maybe instead of actually offering players they'd trade if could just tell you if the team is interested in your player. At least you'd know what teams you should be negotiating with.