Still have historical sim concerns in 1.02

rasnell · 07-07-2006, 10:30 PM

I know that we shouldn't try to use minors and expect to have historical rosters. However, I set player creation to terrible 0.1 so that the fakes would obviously go to the minors.

The patch has fixed this and is working correctly.

Here are my concerns:

1. When Lahman imports 1,810 players in the 1977 season and a 40-man roster would require 1,040 for the draft, why would the minors still be loaded with more fakes than historical players? There were plenty of players to draft and there are real players in the minors. I don't get it.

2. This is a bug and something needs fixed. While in the inaugural draft, with scouts and coaches turned off, you can still get reliable head coach recommendations for your human team for about the first five rounds. And then the coach recommends absolutely awful, horribly rated fake players from that point on. I wonder if the AI is doing this terribly when it actually picks. Doesn't seem to be a problem based on the rosters and viewing all teams, but the head coach thing isn't working after about five rounds for the human team.

Also, the date of birth field when creating a human manager is not working. If you choose a year, the game ignores it and creates something differently. This has happened twice.

By the way, the above experiments were in creating a new league, not an old saved game, and used the current Lahman database.

battists · 07-10-2006, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rasnell

1. When Lahman imports 1,810 players in the 1977 season and a 40-man roster would require 1,040 for the draft, why would the minors still be loaded with more fakes than historical players? There were plenty of players to draft and there are real players in the minors. I don't get it.

Rasnell,

When the game creates a new pool of players for a game, it creates enough players for every roster spot required for all levels, plus approximately 6 players per team to go into the FA pool.

This means that if you set up a historical league with 26 teams, and 3 levels of minors, the game will generate somewhere in the neighborhood of 3,200 players (26 teams x 4 levels x (25 players + 6 FA)) = 3224 players. This number increases significantly if "hidden players" are included, which they are not, by default, with historical leagues.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rasnell

2. While in the inaugural draft, with scouts and coaches turned off, you can still get reliable head coach recommendations for your human team for about the first five rounds. And then the coach recommends absolutely awful, horribly rated fake players from that point on.

Rasnell, can you please provide the exact structure of this league, so that I can try to replicate the issue? I just created a 1977 league with 3 levels of minors, and got head scout recommendations for picks 1-15. There was one oddball (a closer with ratings of 2/20/1), and I logged a TT 2136 specifically about that. But apart from that, every player drafted was a legit major leaguer so far.

I used the player creation modifiers in all areas. I think there must be something specific to whatever your config is that caused this issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rasnell

Also, the date of birth field when creating a human manager is not working. If you choose a year, the game ignores it and creates something differently. This has happened twice.

This a known issue, #1446.

Thanks!

Steve

rasnell · 07-10-2006, 10:01 PM

Imported 1977 season from Lahman database with default settings for that import. Changed player creation modifiers to 0.1 in all categories, as advised in historical sim forum to avoid fakes making it to the majors.

Patch #2 has now correctly fixed the problem of these horrible 0.1 draftees making it to the active roster.

I simply added AAA only to the league structure and then began the inaugural draft. After the fifth round, the head coach kept recommending the same horrible 1-1-1 player (out of 100 rating) for every subsequent round, yet very good, real, major leaguers were available to draft.

battists · 07-10-2006, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rasnell

Imported 1977 season from Lahman database with default settings for that import. Changed player creation modifiers to 0.1 in all categories, as advised in historical sim forum to avoid fakes making it to the majors.

Patch #2 has now correctly fixed the problem of these horrible 0.1 draftees making it to the active roster.

I simply added AAA only to the league structure and then began the inaugural draft. After the fifth round, the head coach kept recommending the same horrible 1-1-1 player (out of 100 rating) for every subsequent round, yet very good, real, major leaguers were available to draft.

Rasnell, this latter issue, with the poor recommendations, was this also in the patched version? With 1977 Lahman and 1 minor league?

rasnell · 07-10-2006, 10:08 PM

Not that I recall. The bigger problem was with the AI roster management moving this horribly rated players onto the active roster and AI teams failing to draft enough position players to even fill a roster, sometimes with 16 pitchers on the active roster.

Both of those bugs have been fixed with Patch #2. I don't remember having the recommendation problem like I"m now seeing.

By the way, here's the link to what is now a 50-year fictional sim and 9 observations of bugs in Patch #2.

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=126634

battists · 07-10-2006, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rasnell

I don't remember having the recommendation problem like I"m now seeing.

So, you're saying that you are seeing the recommendation problem in 1.0.2, using a 1977 import with one AAA affiliated league?

rasnell · 07-10-2006, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battists

So, you're saying that you are seeing the recommendation problem in 1.0.2, using a 1977 import with one AAA affiliated league?

Correct. With the current, plain vanilla, Lahman database -- not one of the edited ones.

battists · 07-10-2006, 10:55 PM

Rasnell,

I'm still unable to reproduce the 5+ round inaugural draft issue you have raised. I imported a 1977 league, added a AAA league, and did the inaugural draft. I drafted through the first 12 rounds using only head scout recommendations, and 11 of the 12 picks were Major Leaguers.

(I left Player Creation Modifiers at the default, and picked up a serviceable non-real catcher in the 11th round - 11/8/14/18/13. He was the only exception.)

Could you please walk me through the exact steps you use when you get this weird drafting issue?

Thanks!

Steve

rasnell · 07-11-2006, 07:05 AM

Only difference in your test: Try setting player creation to 0.1 so that you make the fakes really bad. See if the head scout starts recommending those horrible players by the 5th round -- even when there are very good players available.

If you cannot repeat the problem, perhaps it was a one-league glitch and somehow the file is corrupted just on the drafting aspect.

I've only noticed in this one league test. If you cannot recreate it, you can drop and I'll check again in the next patch.

battists · 07-11-2006, 08:13 AM

Rasnell,

I tried this again with the PCMs set low . . . still no go.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to write off your problem. I just need to be able to replicate this before I can log anything helpful...

If you want to drop it for now, that's OK with me (I have plenty to do

), but please feel free to bring it up if it does come up again! If you do see it, please make sure to note all of the specifics for the league creation!

Thanks,

Steve

07-07-2006, 10:30 PM	#1
rasnell Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Frankfort, Kentucky Posts: 3,746	Still have historical sim concerns in 1.02 I know that we shouldn't try to use minors and expect to have historical rosters. However, I set player creation to terrible 0.1 so that the fakes would obviously go to the minors. The patch has fixed this and is working correctly. Here are my concerns: 1. When Lahman imports 1,810 players in the 1977 season and a 40-man roster would require 1,040 for the draft, why would the minors still be loaded with more fakes than historical players? There were plenty of players to draft and there are real players in the minors. I don't get it. 2. This is a bug and something needs fixed. While in the inaugural draft, with scouts and coaches turned off, you can still get reliable head coach recommendations for your human team for about the first five rounds. And then the coach recommends absolutely awful, horribly rated fake players from that point on. I wonder if the AI is doing this terribly when it actually picks. Doesn't seem to be a problem based on the rosters and viewing all teams, but the head coach thing isn't working after about five rounds for the human team. Also, the date of birth field when creating a human manager is not working. If you choose a year, the game ignores it and creates something differently. This has happened twice. By the way, the above experiments were in creating a new league, not an old saved game, and used the current Lahman database.

07-10-2006, 10:01 PM	#3
rasnell Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Frankfort, Kentucky Posts: 3,746	Imported 1977 season from Lahman database with default settings for that import. Changed player creation modifiers to 0.1 in all categories, as advised in historical sim forum to avoid fakes making it to the majors. Patch #2 has now correctly fixed the problem of these horrible 0.1 draftees making it to the active roster. I simply added AAA only to the league structure and then began the inaugural draft. After the fifth round, the head coach kept recommending the same horrible 1-1-1 player (out of 100 rating) for every subsequent round, yet very good, real, major leaguers were available to draft.

07-10-2006, 10:08 PM	#5
rasnell Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Frankfort, Kentucky Posts: 3,746	Not that I recall. The bigger problem was with the AI roster management moving this horribly rated players onto the active roster and AI teams failing to draft enough position players to even fill a roster, sometimes with 16 pitchers on the active roster. Both of those bugs have been fixed with Patch #2. I don't remember having the recommendation problem like I"m now seeing. By the way, here's the link to what is now a 50-year fictional sim and 9 observations of bugs in Patch #2. http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=126634

07-10-2006, 10:55 PM	#8
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506	Rasnell, I'm still unable to reproduce the 5+ round inaugural draft issue you have raised. I imported a 1977 league, added a AAA league, and did the inaugural draft. I drafted through the first 12 rounds using only head scout recommendations, and 11 of the 12 picks were Major Leaguers. (I left Player Creation Modifiers at the default, and picked up a serviceable non-real catcher in the 11th round - 11/8/14/18/13. He was the only exception.) Could you please walk me through the exact steps you use when you get this weird drafting issue? Thanks! Steve

07-11-2006, 07:05 AM	#9
rasnell Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Frankfort, Kentucky Posts: 3,746	Only difference in your test: Try setting player creation to 0.1 so that you make the fakes really bad. See if the head scout starts recommending those horrible players by the 5th round -- even when there are very good players available. If you cannot repeat the problem, perhaps it was a one-league glitch and somehow the file is corrupted just on the drafting aspect. I've only noticed in this one league test. If you cannot recreate it, you can drop and I'll check again in the next patch.

07-11-2006, 08:13 AM	#10
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506	Rasnell, I tried this again with the PCMs set low . . . still no go. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to write off your problem. I just need to be able to replicate this before I can log anything helpful... If you want to drop it for now, that's OK with me (I have plenty to do ), but please feel free to bring it up if it does come up again! If you do see it, please make sure to note all of the specifics for the league creation! Thanks, Steve