More Cato Stuff

Syd Thrift · 07-03-2006, 05:27 AM

Playoffs leaderboards and managerial records have been mentioned ad nauseum, but I feel like we've completely forgotten about a few other Cato features that really, really added to the fun level of the league:

- Team leaderboards. One of the funnest things I liked to do after running a season that featured a really, really awful team was to go in and see if they were record-breakingly awful. Was their .230 team batting average really the worst ever, and if not, who was worse? Personally, I'd do this a bit and then get sidetracked looking up the real worst (and occasionally best) teams in these categories and get lost for hours (well, half hours, anyway).

- Progressive leaderboards. This is the other one I loved to look at. It's nice that your current all-time HR leader after 105 years of simming just retired with 800 homers, but who led before him? Also, with career leaderboards, it always seemed like your league had reached and passed a critical point when the active leader and career leader in hits were two different people.

- Using shading to separate years or minor league levels, not everything. Not a huge deal, but it does make things easier to read. Baseball Mogul does this really, really well IMO, with different colors at every level. I don't need that, just a way to see at a glance if a guy played with more than one team or at more than one level in a single year.

- Ability to set minimums for rate stats included in the leader boards. The game actually seems to do a pretty good job at setting these out the longer a league lasts so that early on you get a lot of one-season wonders but after 30 years you mainly get people who actually had careers. Nonetheless, I'd like to be able to set this stuff.

COME ON I KNOW ITS EASY I READ A BOOK ON PYTHON ONCE PUT IT IIIINNN MARKUS!!!!!

Markus Heinsohn · 07-03-2006, 05:30 AM

These things are on my list for the next version

But, what in the world does the last sentence mean?

Carplos · 07-03-2006, 05:53 AM

He's mocking people who always say "this should be easy to add."

Syd Thrift · 07-03-2006, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carplos

He's mocking people who always say "this should be easy to add."

You say mock, I say gently poke fun at. Tomato, tomahto. Potato, potahto. Let's call the whole thing off!

Recte44 · 07-03-2006, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

These things are on my list for the next version

Effectively eliminating any chance that commissioners of OOTP6 leagues would consider switching over until the next version.

Markus Heinsohn · 07-03-2006, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBC Chairman

Effectively eliminating any chance that commissioners of OOTP6 leagues would consider switching over until the next version.

Why not?? These things were not features of OOTP 6, why should one not want to switch because of that?

Look, the history is sooooo much better now, that alone would be worth the switch IMO.

silvam14 · 07-03-2006, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBC Chairman

Effectively eliminating any chance that commissioners of OOTP6 leagues would consider switching over until the next version.

Well, you should go find out where Jcato is and have him create his program to be compatible with 2006. After all It was him, not Markus that was responsible for catobase

Recte44 · 07-03-2006, 09:47 AM

True- but CATO is the best part of online leagues, IMO. Missing out on the detail is a loss for the series. I thought that having a complete history was a goal for the new series.

Just because OOTP2006's history is better than OOTP6's doesn't mean it's everything we're used to (through third party utilities that could have, SHOULD have been incorporated into the new game).

I'm not *****ing, I'm just saying. If you want to make a grand gesture of goodwill to the online players who feel a bit alienated right now, include this in one of the upcoming patches to OOTP2006, not wait until 2007.

Ben Music · 07-03-2006, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

These things are on my list for the next version

But, what in the world does the last sentence mean?

Ah, but does he mean minor or major verison of the game????

gordyhulten · 07-03-2006, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Playoffs leaderboards and managerial records have been mentioned ad nauseum, but I feel like we've completely forgotten about a few other Cato features that really, really added to the fun level of the league:

- Team leaderboards. One of the funnest things I liked to do after running a season that featured a really, really awful team was to go in and see if they were record-breakingly awful. Was their .230 team batting average really the worst ever, and if not, who was worse? Personally, I'd do this a bit and then get sidetracked looking up the real worst (and occasionally best) teams in these categories and get lost for hours (well, half hours, anyway).

- Progressive leaderboards. This is the other one I loved to look at. It's nice that your current all-time HR leader after 105 years of simming just retired with 800 homers, but who led before him? Also, with career leaderboards, it always seemed like your league had reached and passed a critical point when the active leader and career leader in hits were two different people.

- Using shading to separate years or minor league levels, not everything. Not a huge deal, but it does make things easier to read. Baseball Mogul does this really, really well IMO, with different colors at every level. I don't need that, just a way to see at a glance if a guy played with more than one team or at more than one level in a single year.

- Ability to set minimums for rate stats included in the leader boards. The game actually seems to do a pretty good job at setting these out the longer a league lasts so that early on you get a lot of one-season wonders but after 30 years you mainly get people who actually had careers. Nonetheless, I'd like to be able to set this stuff.

COME ON I KNOW ITS EASY I READ A BOOK ON PYTHON ONCE PUT IT IIIINNN MARKUS!!!!!

cosign. This stuff really added a lot to CatoBase.

tcblcommish · 07-03-2006, 12:58 PM

I agree. The Catobase as a whole was the main reason why I did so many historical leagues and all the fictional ones I ran. I loved pouring over the stats and such.

I loved seeing manager stats and the awards like Relief Man of the Year, My own Silver Slugger Award and Post Season MVP. MAnager records were the biggest part of the history that I missed the most as was things like the leaderboard that had who had the most championships and the highest salaries for a career wqas cool too

I hope Markus goes over the OLD catobase and puts it ALL in there.

Russ · 07-03-2006, 01:25 PM

I always liked the similarity scores, HOF Standards, black ink, gray ink, etc. It really immersed me in my fictional leagues.

PineTar · 07-03-2006, 01:54 PM

Its incredibly short-sighted by the design team and Markus in particular to underestimate the benefit that Cato's utility brought to previous versions of his game for multiplayer leagues. Its a shame that priority was not placed on insuring data compatability (forward or backward).

If and when the single player game is viable from an entertainment standpoint, I'm sure I'll be happy w/ the in-game capabilities of what OOTP2k6 has to offer.

But that's of absolutely no help to my long time (5 years IRL) MP league, we're left high and forced to have two books of record if we do end up making the leap to the new game.

DreamTeams · 07-03-2006, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

These things are on my list for the next version

But, what in the world does the last sentence mean?

For some this would mean starting all over to get a complete accurate history. Same thing if manager records are included in the next version. Not many are gonna want to start over. Your call, but these things should be there now.

Bluenoser · 07-03-2006, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamTeams

For some this would mean starting all over to get a complete accurate history. Same thing if manager records are included in the next version. Not many are gonna want to start over. Your call, but these things should be there now.

Every version of OOTP had new things added - did that stop people from starting over?

Questdog · 07-03-2006, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PineTar

But that's of absolutely no help to my long time (5 years IRL) MP league, we're left high and forced to have two books of record if we do end up making the leap to the new game.

To expect (or even have any slight hope) that Markus would make the new version compatible with someone else's 3rd party addition, is a little much to ask for, isn't it?...

PineTar · 07-03-2006, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Questdog

To expect (or even have any slight hope) that Markus would make the new version compatible with someone else's 3rd party addition, is a little much to ask for, isn't it?...

absolutely not

PineTar · 07-03-2006, 02:01 PM

dola: If the ideas were good enough to leverage as the basis for the implemented almanac, why not go the whole nine yards and at least make it compatable w/ the utility its based off of?

Syd Thrift · 07-03-2006, 02:05 PM

Were you in here last summer, when the "easy" task of making 6.5 compatible with Cato ended up not being such an easy thing after all? I suspect that making 2006 compatible with a program that hasn't been updated in 2 years and that, for all we know, is coded by a guy who is now dead or who sold his computer would be way too time-consuming.

Also, the in-game almanac is vastly superior to Cato in that it doesn't take 2 hours to build and it's not nearly as buggy. Should it have all that extra stuff? Yes. It's still in its own way a vastly superior set-up than using 6.5 and Catobase.

DreamTeams · 07-03-2006, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruceM

Every version of OOTP had new things added - did that stop people from starting over?

Perhaps. That's why I said 'some' and 'many' not 'all'. For others this might not be a big deal. But, we're talking about basic stats here. Manager records should be in the game now if it's capable of being patched in. If not, then it's understandable.

07-03-2006, 05:27 AM	#1
Syd Thrift Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 10,612	More Cato Stuff Playoffs leaderboards and managerial records have been mentioned ad nauseum, but I feel like we've completely forgotten about a few other Cato features that really, really added to the fun level of the league: - Team leaderboards. One of the funnest things I liked to do after running a season that featured a really, really awful team was to go in and see if they were record-breakingly awful. Was their .230 team batting average really the worst ever, and if not, who was worse? Personally, I'd do this a bit and then get sidetracked looking up the real worst (and occasionally best) teams in these categories and get lost for hours (well, half hours, anyway). - Progressive leaderboards. This is the other one I loved to look at. It's nice that your current all-time HR leader after 105 years of simming just retired with 800 homers, but who led before him? Also, with career leaderboards, it always seemed like your league had reached and passed a critical point when the active leader and career leader in hits were two different people. - Using shading to separate years or minor league levels, not everything. Not a huge deal, but it does make things easier to read. Baseball Mogul does this really, really well IMO, with different colors at every level. I don't need that, just a way to see at a glance if a guy played with more than one team or at more than one level in a single year. - Ability to set minimums for rate stats included in the leader boards. The game actually seems to do a pretty good job at setting these out the longer a league lasts so that early on you get a lot of one-season wonders but after 30 years you mainly get people who actually had careers. Nonetheless, I'd like to be able to set this stuff. COME ON I KNOW ITS EASY I READ A BOOK ON PYTHON ONCE PUT IT IIIINNN MARKUS!!!!!

07-03-2006, 09:47 AM	#8
Recte44 Global Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Oconomowoc, WI Posts: 2,807	True- but CATO is the best part of online leagues, IMO. Missing out on the detail is a loss for the series. I thought that having a complete history was a goal for the new series. Just because OOTP2006's history is better than OOTP6's doesn't mean it's everything we're used to (through third party utilities that could have, SHOULD have been incorporated into the new game). I'm not ***ing, I'm just saying. If you want to make a grand gesture of goodwill to the online players who feel a bit alienated right now, include this in one of the upcoming patches to OOTP2006, not wait until 2007. __________________ Matt Rectenwald Commissioner, GM: Las Vegas Hustlers, The Brewster Baseball Association- fictional league (JOIN NOW)**

07-03-2006, 01:25 PM	#12
Russ All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Essex HON! Posts: 1,923 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	I always liked the similarity scores, HOF Standards, black ink, gray ink, etc. It really immersed me in my fictional leagues. __________________ If you don't love Russ, you don't love America. This post brought to you by Carl's Jr.

07-03-2006, 02:01 PM	#18
PineTar Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 154	dola: If the ideas were good enough to leverage as the basis for the implemented almanac, why not go the whole nine yards and at least make it compatable w/ the utility its based off of? __________________

07-03-2006, 05:30 AM	#2
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,805	These things are on my list for the next version But, what in the world does the last sentence mean?

07-03-2006, 05:53 AM	#3
Carplos Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,846 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	He's mocking people who always say "this should be easy to add."

07-03-2006, 12:58 PM	#11
tcblcommish Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 3,439	I agree. The Catobase as a whole was the main reason why I did so many historical leagues and all the fictional ones I ran. I loved pouring over the stats and such. I loved seeing manager stats and the awards like Relief Man of the Year, My own Silver Slugger Award and Post Season MVP. MAnager records were the biggest part of the history that I missed the most as was things like the leaderboard that had who had the most championships and the highest salaries for a career wqas cool too I hope Markus goes over the OLD catobase and puts it ALL in there.

07-03-2006, 01:54 PM	#13
PineTar Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 154	Its incredibly short-sighted by the design team and Markus in particular to underestimate the benefit that Cato's utility brought to previous versions of his game for multiplayer leagues. Its a shame that priority was not placed on insuring data compatability (forward or backward). If and when the single player game is viable from an entertainment standpoint, I'm sure I'll be happy w/ the in-game capabilities of what OOTP2k6 has to offer. But that's of absolutely no help to my long time (5 years IRL) MP league, we're left high and forced to have two books of record if we do end up making the leap to the new game.

07-03-2006, 02:05 PM	#19
Syd Thrift Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 10,612	Were you in here last summer, when the "easy" task of making 6.5 compatible with Cato ended up not being such an easy thing after all? I suspect that making 2006 compatible with a program that hasn't been updated in 2 years and that, for all we know, is coded by a guy who is now dead or who sold his computer would be way too time-consuming. Also, the in-game almanac is vastly superior to Cato in that it doesn't take 2 hours to build and it's not nearly as buggy. Should it have all that extra stuff? Yes. It's still in its own way a vastly superior set-up than using 6.5 and Catobase.