Suggestion: Modifications to the standard Taiwanese League

sljchung · 06-02-2006, 11:09 AM

As a fan in the real world, I was excited when I heard that the professional baseball league in Taiwan would be included in OOTPB2006. Therefore, the standard Taiwan Professional Baseball League is one of the few things I tried first when I got this game.

From the games default setup, I can see the efforts of trying to make it realistic. However, there are a few things that does not match what's happening in the real world. Here is a list of changes I would suggest and hopefully they will be applied in the first patch.

(1) Team Name Error: Mac"a"to should be Mac"o"to instead.

(2) Team Name Error: "First Securities" sold the team to another company called "La New"

(3) League Name Error: The official name of the professional baseball league in Taiwan should be "Chinese Professional Baseball League", a.k.a. CPBL.

(4) Foreign Players Limit: Although the limit keeps changing, in 2006, the foreign players limit is 3 (any combination or pitchers and/or batters).

p.s.1: In CPBL, a foreign player must stay on the team's 25-man roster. If a player is removed from it (even due to injury), the same player cannot be registered again in the same season.

p.s.2: In Asian professional baseball leagues (JPB, KBO, CPBL), foreign players are hired as "silver bullets" to fill holes in the team. This is why there are limits on the number of foreign players. Therefore, teams only hire good, developed players. The current system generates all kinds of players, which is inaccurate. Hopefully, in the future patches, there will be a check box such as "elite players only" to help generating a realistic foreign player pool.

(5) Expanded Roster Size: There is no roster expansion in CPBL, so the default should be "Rule Disabled".

(6) Roster Expansion Date: If (5) is set, this field should disappear as it doesn't do anything.

(7) Secondary (40-man) Roster Size: Should be "Rule Disabled".

There is no secondary roster in CPBL. Before the season opening day, each team will submit a list of local players. Only these players are allow to play for the team in the upcoming season. However, only those listed in the 25-man roster can play in a game. Local players can be registered and removed from the 25-man roster multiple times, but foreign players can only be registered "once", as described in (4).

(8) Minimum Days of Service for one Service Year: Not Applicable

Because there is no FA or salary arbitration in CPBL, this setting doesn't do anything. A player would be considered to serve for 1 year as long as he is signed with a team, even if he never made 25-man roster or played a single game!

(9) Player Trades: Not Allowed

Although there are very few cases of "player trades" in 16 years since CPBL is established, all these cases have special reasons. So, I would recommand disable player trades by default. Also, those few trades are all processed during off-season, so it's never clear when is the trading deadline and whether the traded player can play for the new team immediately, as the traded player will NOT be on the new team's roster before the current season's opening day.

(10) Amateur Draft Date: The amateur drafts in CPBL are generally held in November/December during the off-season. Therefore, I suggest we set the default date to 30th November.

(11) Amateur Draft Number of Rounds: The actual number varies each year depending on how many players applied. However, there are rarely enough players for more than 5 rounds, so I suggest the default value should be the minimal number, i.e. 5 rounds.

(12) Financial Rules: The MLB financial rules doesn't really apply in CPBL. In the past 16 years, there are only 2 years where a single team in the league (Brother Elephants) had ever made the balance even. In all other cases, teams are losing millions and even tens of millions of dollars (in Taiwanese dollars). The companies in Taiwan mainly support baseball teams for promotional purposes like buying time slots for TV commercials. All teams still have budgets, but it's usually more than the revenues, so the financial model in OOTPB2006 will not work. Since there is no FA, salary arbitration in CPBL either, I suggest we simply DISABLE the whole financial setting.

p.s. If you really want some flavor of finance in the game, then disable FA and set minimal service year of arbitration to 1 year, may be the way to go. This is because players' contract in CPBL is generally reviewed after each season based on the player's performance and team record. However, OOTPB2006 needs to be able to make players accept a lesser arbitrated contract after a bad year, or the salary will only go up, which is not realistic at all.

p.s. If OOTPB2006 do make players accept lesser arbitrated contracts, I could do some investigation to find out meaningful numbers for average attendence, average salary, etc. in CPBL.

(13) Select Typical Series Length: Should be 4 games instead of 3, as this is how the 2006 regular season schedule is set.

(14) Playoff Options: The current playoff in CPBL actually involve 3 teams, 2 split-season winners and a wild card. However, since odd number of playoff teams is not supported in OOTP yet, I am fine with only 1 round playoff. But, the default number of games should be best-of-7 instead of 5 as this is how the championship round is played.

(15) Foreign Player Percentage: The foreign player % should be set to 0 because there is no foreign players in CPBL amateur drafts. I misunderstood this option and made a wrong suggestion (12%) in my previous post.

(16) HoF Requirements: Since CPBL only has 100 games per year, I cut the requirement of the hits/HRs/wins/saves by half. On the other hand, since there is no HoF in Taiwan yet, leaving the requirements will probably prevent any player from being introduced... effectively matches what happens in the real world...

(17) General Strategic Tendencies: I'm assuming these default settings are the tendencies of the modern MLB. If so, from my personal opinion, these settings should be changed slightly.

"Use of Relievers" should be at least "normal" as starting pitchers in Taiwan tend to stay on the mound as long as possible unless he is blown out or base(s) is loaded during late game.

"Use of Closers" can be set to "often" if the "Use of Relievers" is "normal" (i.e. 1 level up). The use of Closers is slightly more common than relievers in CPBL.

"Pitcher Endurance" probably should be at least "normal" as well, since SP's in CPBL stays on the mound longer than MLB ones.

"Typical Starting Rotation Size" should be "4 Man Rotation" as there are only 4 games each week.

"Pinch Hit for Position Players" is probably more often in CPBL than MLB, so I will probably set it to "normal" instead.

"Bunting" is a lot more frequent in CPBL. I will probably set it to "often" or at least "normal". The same also goes to "Hit & Run", though I am not so sure on this one and will probably only raise it to "normal".

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Whew! That's it! The suggestions above are just my personal opinions and I'm open for comments and discussions!

Le Grande Orange · 06-02-2006, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sljchung

(13) Select Typical Series Length: Should be 4 games instead of 3, as this is how the 2006 regular season schedule is set.

The listed setting doesn't really matter because the actual 2006 schedule should be loaded by default for the game. At least, I supplied the actual schedule; perhaps it didn't make it into the schedules folder before release or it's not loading properly.

sljchung · 06-02-2006, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

The listed setting doesn't really matter because the actual 2006 schedule should be loaded by default for the game. At least, I supplied the actual schedule; perhaps it didn't make it into the schedules folder before release or it's not loading properly.

To be honest, I haven't looked at the schedule and see whether it is accurate... Even if the schedule is accurate, it doesn't hurt to have the default series length set to the correct value, does it?

bp_ · 06-02-2006, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sljchung

To be honest, I haven't looked at the schedule and see whether it is accurate... Even if the schedule is accurate, it doesn't hurt to have the default series length set to the correct value, does it?

Agreed. Suggestions like your list will only make this game better once all the bugs are out and the mirroring of reality is correct.

sljchung · 06-03-2006, 07:55 PM

Bump to the top!

Le Grande Orange · 06-03-2006, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sljchung

To be honest, I haven't looked at the schedule and see whether it is accurate... Even if the schedule is accurate, it doesn't hurt to have the default series length set to the correct value, does it?

But it does make it irrelevant if the proper, real schedule loads.

sljchung · 06-05-2006, 07:17 PM

Bump back to the 1st page!

sljchung · 06-08-2006, 05:34 AM

Looks that none of the things I suggested made the 1st patch... not even fixing the typo and name error (1 & 2 above). I guess that I need to keep bumping this to the top to attract attentions...

sljchung · 06-11-2006, 08:16 AM

Bump!

sljchung · 06-20-2006, 08:32 PM

Bump back to 1st page!

Raidergoo · 07-01-2006, 11:29 PM

I think that several of your points can be implemented, so I made a feature request

TT#2006.

Be advised that this may get bumped by Markus off into a next year, or could easily be implemented tomorrow. I dont know.

Are you a big CPBL fan? Did you get the alternate Taiwanese flag yet?

sljchung · 07-02-2006, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raidergoo

I think that several of your points can be implemented, so I made a feature request

TT#2006.

Be advised that this may get bumped by Markus off into a next year, or could easily be implemented tomorrow. I dont know.

Are you a big CPBL fan? Did you get the alternate Taiwanese flag yet?

Thanks! And yes, I'm a big CPBL fan. In fact, this is 50% of the reason why I preorder this game in Dec. (the other 50% is the discount...

)

No, I didn't get any alternative flag yet, nor knowing where to get it. But I know that the game uses the Olympic flag as the national one...

Can you please tell me where I can find the alternative flag?

Carplos · 07-02-2006, 04:07 AM

Should be in the Cities and Nations mod forum.

sljchung · 07-02-2006, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carplos

Should be in the Cities and Nations mod forum.

Found it, thanks!

Raidergoo · 07-19-2006, 12:11 PM

Markus has made some changes have been made to the default Taiwanese set up based on this thread.

No details yet; the latest build has not been sent yet.

Carplos · 07-20-2006, 03:20 AM

Quote:

The current system generates all kinds of players, which is inaccurate. Hopefully, in the future patches, there will be a check box such as "elite players only" to help generating a realistic foreign player pool.

I know this is old, but I thought I would go ahead and suggest--a workaround mostly: If you set the foreign player percentage to 0%, it will only generate players from the country of the league. I'm not sure how the Taiwan draft works, but I imagine the # of foreign players in it is small, so you could always edit a few of the generated players to come from another country if you wanted realism. If the league is part of a larger universe, there's a much higher chance that only players that would be good/great players in the league would signed (although I imagine there would be flops, and some bad signings). If it's just a Taiwan league, you could always generate a few established free agents a year (and set the foreign player % to 100 before doing so, then changing it back).

Hopefully next years version will have a more in depth foreign player setup. It really needs its own tab in the setup...

sljchung · 07-20-2006, 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carplos

I know this is old, but I thought I would go ahead and suggest--a workaround mostly: If you set the foreign player percentage to 0%, it will only generate players from the country of the league. I'm not sure how the Taiwan draft works, but I imagine the # of foreign players in it is small, so you could always edit a few of the generated players to come from another country if you wanted realism. If the league is part of a larger universe, there's a much higher chance that only players that would be good/great players in the league would signed (although I imagine there would be flops, and some bad signings). If it's just a Taiwan league, you could always generate a few established free agents a year (and set the foreign player % to 100 before doing so, then changing it back).

Hopefully next years version will have a more in depth foreign player setup. It really needs its own tab in the setup...

Yes, you are right, the foreign player % should be set to 0 instead.

I made all those suggestions when I just got the game without playing it too much (i.e. I only did fantasy draft, but not amateur draft), and I misunderstood what "foreign player %" really means.

The amateur drafts in Taiwan include Taiwanese players only. All foreign players are signed as FAs.

I will edit my initial post to correct this.

Carplos · 07-20-2006, 04:31 AM

I keep it at the % I always had it at except for the day before the draft pool is generated, and when I want to create foreign free agents--just in case.

I haven't taken the time to leave it at 0% for the whole offseason and regular season yet to see if the AI actually uses it, or if it's just for player creation.

06-02-2006, 11:09 AM	#1
sljchung Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Taiwan Posts: 188	Suggestion: Modifications to the standard Taiwanese League As a fan in the real world, I was excited when I heard that the professional baseball league in Taiwan would be included in OOTPB2006. Therefore, the standard Taiwan Professional Baseball League is one of the few things I tried first when I got this game. From the games default setup, I can see the efforts of trying to make it realistic. However, there are a few things that does not match what's happening in the real world. Here is a list of changes I would suggest and hopefully they will be applied in the first patch. (1) Team Name Error: Mac"a"to should be Mac"o"to instead. (2) Team Name Error: "First Securities" sold the team to another company called "La New" (3) League Name Error: The official name of the professional baseball league in Taiwan should be "Chinese Professional Baseball League", a.k.a. CPBL. (4) Foreign Players Limit: Although the limit keeps changing, in 2006, the foreign players limit is 3 (any combination or pitchers and/or batters). p.s.1: In CPBL, a foreign player must stay on the team's 25-man roster. If a player is removed from it (even due to injury), the same player cannot be registered again in the same season. p.s.2: In Asian professional baseball leagues (JPB, KBO, CPBL), foreign players are hired as "silver bullets" to fill holes in the team. This is why there are limits on the number of foreign players. Therefore, teams only hire good, developed players. The current system generates all kinds of players, which is inaccurate. Hopefully, in the future patches, there will be a check box such as "elite players only" to help generating a realistic foreign player pool. (5) Expanded Roster Size: There is no roster expansion in CPBL, so the default should be "Rule Disabled". (6) Roster Expansion Date: If (5) is set, this field should disappear as it doesn't do anything. (7) Secondary (40-man) Roster Size: Should be "Rule Disabled". There is no secondary roster in CPBL. Before the season opening day, each team will submit a list of local players. Only these players are allow to play for the team in the upcoming season. However, only those listed in the 25-man roster can play in a game. Local players can be registered and removed from the 25-man roster multiple times, but foreign players can only be registered "once", as described in (4). (8) Minimum Days of Service for one Service Year: Not Applicable Because there is no FA or salary arbitration in CPBL, this setting doesn't do anything. A player would be considered to serve for 1 year as long as he is signed with a team, even if he never made 25-man roster or played a single game! (9) Player Trades: Not Allowed Although there are very few cases of "player trades" in 16 years since CPBL is established, all these cases have special reasons. So, I would recommand disable player trades by default. Also, those few trades are all processed during off-season, so it's never clear when is the trading deadline and whether the traded player can play for the new team immediately, as the traded player will NOT be on the new team's roster before the current season's opening day. (10) Amateur Draft Date: The amateur drafts in CPBL are generally held in November/December during the off-season. Therefore, I suggest we set the default date to 30th November. (11) Amateur Draft Number of Rounds: The actual number varies each year depending on how many players applied. However, there are rarely enough players for more than 5 rounds, so I suggest the default value should be the minimal number, i.e. 5 rounds. (12) Financial Rules: The MLB financial rules doesn't really apply in CPBL. In the past 16 years, there are only 2 years where a single team in the league (Brother Elephants) had ever made the balance even. In all other cases, teams are losing millions and even tens of millions of dollars (in Taiwanese dollars). The companies in Taiwan mainly support baseball teams for promotional purposes like buying time slots for TV commercials. All teams still have budgets, but it's usually more than the revenues, so the financial model in OOTPB2006 will not work. Since there is no FA, salary arbitration in CPBL either, I suggest we simply DISABLE the whole financial setting. p.s. If you really want some flavor of finance in the game, then disable FA and set minimal service year of arbitration to 1 year, may be the way to go. This is because players' contract in CPBL is generally reviewed after each season based on the player's performance and team record. However, OOTPB2006 needs to be able to make players accept a lesser arbitrated contract after a bad year, or the salary will only go up, which is not realistic at all. p.s. If OOTPB2006 do make players accept lesser arbitrated contracts, I could do some investigation to find out meaningful numbers for average attendence, average salary, etc. in CPBL. (13) Select Typical Series Length: Should be 4 games instead of 3, as this is how the 2006 regular season schedule is set. (14) Playoff Options: The current playoff in CPBL actually involve 3 teams, 2 split-season winners and a wild card. However, since odd number of playoff teams is not supported in OOTP yet, I am fine with only 1 round playoff. But, the default number of games should be best-of-7 instead of 5 as this is how the championship round is played. (15) Foreign Player Percentage: The foreign player % should be set to 0 because there is no foreign players in CPBL amateur drafts. I misunderstood this option and made a wrong suggestion (12%) in my previous post. (16) HoF Requirements: Since CPBL only has 100 games per year, I cut the requirement of the hits/HRs/wins/saves by half. On the other hand, since there is no HoF in Taiwan yet, leaving the requirements will probably prevent any player from being introduced... effectively matches what happens in the real world... (17) General Strategic Tendencies: I'm assuming these default settings are the tendencies of the modern MLB. If so, from my personal opinion, these settings should be changed slightly. "Use of Relievers" should be at least "normal" as starting pitchers in Taiwan tend to stay on the mound as long as possible unless he is blown out or base(s) is loaded during late game. "Use of Closers" can be set to "often" if the "Use of Relievers" is "normal" (i.e. 1 level up). The use of Closers is slightly more common than relievers in CPBL. "Pitcher Endurance" probably should be at least "normal" as well, since SP's in CPBL stays on the mound longer than MLB ones. "Typical Starting Rotation Size" should be "4 Man Rotation" as there are only 4 games each week. "Pinch Hit for Position Players" is probably more often in CPBL than MLB, so I will probably set it to "normal" instead. "Bunting" is a lot more frequent in CPBL. I will probably set it to "often" or at least "normal". The same also goes to "Hit & Run", though I am not so sure on this one and will probably only raise it to "normal". ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Whew! That's it! The suggestions above are just my personal opinions and I'm open for comments and discussions! __________________ Last edited by sljchung; 07-20-2006 at 03:42 AM.

06-03-2006, 07:55 PM	#5
sljchung Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Taiwan Posts: 188	Bump to the top! __________________

06-05-2006, 07:17 PM	#7
sljchung Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Taiwan Posts: 188	Bump back to the 1st page! __________________

06-08-2006, 05:34 AM	#8
sljchung Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Taiwan Posts: 188	Looks that none of the things I suggested made the 1st patch... not even fixing the typo and name error (1 & 2 above). I guess that I need to keep bumping this to the top to attract attentions... __________________

06-11-2006, 08:16 AM	#9
sljchung Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Taiwan Posts: 188	Bump! __________________

06-20-2006, 08:32 PM	#10
sljchung Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Taiwan Posts: 188	Bump back to 1st page! __________________

07-01-2006, 11:29 PM	#11
Raidergoo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 9,005	I think that several of your points can be implemented, so I made a feature request TT#2006. Be advised that this may get bumped by Markus off into a next year, or could easily be implemented tomorrow. I dont know. Are you a big CPBL fan? Did you get the alternate Taiwanese flag yet? Last edited by Raidergoo; 07-01-2006 at 11:31 PM.

07-02-2006, 04:07 AM	#13
Carplos Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,847 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	Should be in the Cities and Nations mod forum.

07-19-2006, 12:11 PM	#15
Raidergoo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 9,005	Markus has made some changes have been made to the default Taiwanese set up based on this thread. No details yet; the latest build has not been sent yet.

07-20-2006, 04:31 AM	#18
Carplos Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,847 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	I keep it at the % I always had it at except for the day before the draft pool is generated, and when I want to create foreign free agents--just in case. I haven't taken the time to leave it at 0% for the whole offseason and regular season yet to see if the AI actually uses it, or if it's just for player creation.