Unplayable

Cras · 06-14-2006, 12:42 AM

This post has been deleted because it did not follow the forum rules.

Mr.Opinion · 06-14-2006, 12:47 AM

This post has been deleted because it did not follow the forum rules.

gordyhulten · 06-14-2006, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cras

This game is unplayable, and for all those here on these boards who agree with me I ask that you continue to pick this game apart and uncover its vast shortcomings and discover its limitations so that we can get this game fixed and keep the pressure on until it gets to a more acceptable level.

It is all to apparent that the beta testers have dropped the ball and we now must pick up where they failed.

I am not here to debate the issue but to only get point across.

Sigh.

It would be more constructive to list, in seperate threads, the specific issues you're having (or the features you'd like to see added) in the appropriate forums.

Merely chanting "Unplayable" over and over again isn't going to get anything fixed - I read almost every post on this board, and I can't keep your "Unplayable" issues seperate from anyone else's "unplayable" issues.

Also, it does your cause no good to insult the beta testers. I don't understand what you hope to accomplish by doing so. Is it so difficult to be constructive and civil?

Just my $0.02.

Bishop · 06-14-2006, 12:58 AM

Seriously. We get it.

silvam14 · 06-14-2006, 01:00 AM

I've seen cras on these boards a lot in the months leading up to this release, and though I don't agree with his assessment of the game. I also don't think he's a troll. In fact, It seemed to me that he was every bit as excited about the release as the next guy. I just don't feel as let down as he does I guess.

If this is the approach he wants to take to try to right his perceived wrongs, I feel he has earned the right to do so without being deemed a troll.

Just my

bababui · 06-14-2006, 01:03 AM

I think the game is playable, but..just not as playable..or fun..as 6.51 for people who play out games. A couple of specific issues:

The interface: Its slow, cumbersome and doesnt respond at times as quickly as it should. Sometimes moving the mouse over a dropdown icon nothing happens. In offering contract terms the interface for imputing numbers is really slow and annoying..although the thought process behind it is quite good..it would be cool if it worked a little more smoothly.

Player evaluations: On one screen I would like to see overall batting, fielding and speed ratings. There are just too many players in the game to keep track of everyone..and who wants to waste time continuously clicking here and there. It would make drafting and trading much easier.

We will be spending a lot of time with this game and it should have the easy comfortable feeling of an old friend. Obviously it is still a work in progress but there is no reason to jump ship just yet..or be in denial.

gordyhulten · 06-14-2006, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvam14

I've seen cras on these boards a lot in the months leading up to this release, and though I don't agree with his assessment of the game. I also don't think he's a troll. In fact, It seemed to me that he was every bit as excited about the release as the next guy. I just don't feel as let down as he does I guess.

If this is the approach he wants to take to try to right his perceived wrongs, I feel he has earned the right to do so without being deemed a troll.

Just my

I don't think he's a troll. I just think there are better, more constructive ways to get his issues addressed. I'd actually be happy to help him, if I could, but I can't, so I'm suggesting he point out his issues (persistently, if need be) in a constructive way in the appropriate place, and then I think they're more likely to be addressed.

Cras · 06-14-2006, 01:05 AM

How can you call me a troll when I am asking all those who post "This is unplayable" to rather do their best to find the bugs, report the bugs, and post feature requests so that this game can reach its vast potential.

I want everyone out there to do this because this game has such great potential and so much of it has been untapped with this release.

The sooner, in releases, that potential begins to be realized the better in my opinion.

silvam14 · 06-14-2006, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gordyhulten

I don't think he's a troll. I just think there are better, more constructive ways to get his issues addressed. I'd actually be happy to help him, if I could, but I can't, so I'm suggesting he point out his issues (persistently, if need be) in a constructive way in the appropriate place, and then I think they're more likely to be addressed.

I can agree with you on this too. IThe knife cuts both ways, so to speak

Cras · 06-14-2006, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gordyhulten

I'd actually be happy to help him, if I could, but I can't, so I'm suggesting he point out his issues (persistently, if need be) in a constructive way in the appropriate place, and then I think they're more likely to be addressed.

I have been, in the tech forum, for several bugs. I continue to run the game for the sole purpose of finding more bugs and I post them, repeatedly until they get logged and I will continue to do this. I just want to get everyone who feels let down by this game to do the same so that the patches can fix and upgrade the game at the fastest possible pace.

Wabner · 06-14-2006, 01:08 AM

Gordy, didn't you read the post? He most defiantly said that he isn't here to debate. He's here to lead the charge to freedom...or something.

Funny that one man's unplayable game is another man's fun evening playing a 3 game set against the Pirates. Whoops..sorry. No debating. To Freedom!!!

In all seriousness, there has got to be something on TV, a book in the personal library, or even some old porn that's worth watching that is more enjoyable than to repeat the same stuff over...and over...and over again. I think your point has been made by now, eh?

Cras · 06-14-2006, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wabner

Gordy, didn't you read the post? He most defiantly said that he isn't here to debate. He's here to lead the charge to freedom...or something.

Funny that one man's unplayable game is another man's fun evening playing a 3 game set against the Pirates. Whoops..sorry. No debating. To Freedom!!!

In all seriousness, there has got to be something or TV, a book in the personal library, or even some old porn that's worth watching that is more enjoyable than to repeat the same stuff over...and over...and over again. I think your point has been made by now, eh?

No points being made, no charge for freedom to be heard, no debate for fruiton, as it would be futile. I am just asking for everyone who feels disappointed with the game to resist the urge to just shelf the game for the near future so that they can keep running the game and finding all the possible issues. Then they can all be reported and fixed quicker.

fantom1979 · 06-14-2006, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cras

This game is unplayable

I just got done playing for 4 hours.

ozziethesaint · 06-14-2006, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fantom1979

I just got done playing for 4 hours.

and if you're lucky you got through 1 day

but seriously, I do agree with Cras here. This game so far is a huge disappointment considering that we spent what 2 years? waiting for this. and when it comes out instead of being any step forward, it ends up being about 10 steps backwards. and I'd be one of the first ones helping you Cras. but I've already uninstalled the game and will wait for 2-3 more patches at least

TC Dale · 06-14-2006, 01:35 AM

Let's stop the bashing of folks that don't have the same experiences of those that can play the game without issues. Calling someone a troll isn't going to make things better, and we aren't going to have that as acceptable behavior any longer.

Agree to disagree, but please stop the pro/con bashing.. working TOWARDS everyone having the same gameplay experience is what we are working towards, not alienating those that don't have the same experience as others.

Thanks.

endgame · 06-14-2006, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cras

This game is unplayable, and for all those here on these boards who agree with me I ask that you continue to pick this game apart and uncover its vast shortcomings and discover its limitations so that we can get this game fixed and keep the pressure on until it gets to a more acceptable level.

It is all to apparent that the beta testers have dropped the ball and we now must pick up where they failed.

I am not here to debate the issue but to only get point across.

My one and only post in this thread because I am not of the audience he refers to above. While I have not always agreed with Cras' approach to a particular matter, I have always found him well-intended working toward a better end as he perceives that end in his vision.

I disagree with his overall assessment that the testers failed at the task, but this is not the place to discuss it. This IS the place to honor his offer to those 'feeling that way' to bring it to the forefront and make the issues known with the clarity, precision, and determination. It's his right, and it's his method. I would beseech those who would jump in here as defenders of the game to restrain that reflex and see, or at least allow, the potential for good to come of this that Cras sees.

If this thread culminates in no more than a collection of well-argued, well thought out and specified shortcomings and disappointments, then it has served at least a worthy thread for evaluation and possible attention. To deride the thread-starter or derail the intention with wars of opinion does not serve the interest of the thread's aim or do a service to the game. Enough of those threads already exist.

I'm not a Cras fanboy. But he has proven in his exchanges with me his ability to disagree with an absence of malice, albeit a rough-edged diplomacy. Let it run its course. Take some confidence that conflict and opposition can give rise to growth. Don't be tempted to stunt that before it's even begun.

and on to reading from here.

fantom1979 · 06-14-2006, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozziethesaint

and if you're lucky you got through 1 day

I played for about 2 months. I still do not and will never see this game as unplayable, but I will ALWAYS support the efforts of the members of this board to drive this game to be better. The AI makes some horrible decisions, the missing features from 6.5, and the lack of the interface remembering scroll bar positions and selected filters makes the game not as fun as it could be.

EDIT: If you are getting blue screens or crashes to the desktop, then ignore my game is not unplayable statement

Le Grande Orange · 06-14-2006, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cras

It is all to apparent that the beta testers have dropped the ball and we now must pick up where they failed.

Spoken by someone who was not part of the process and thus can only surmise what the process was and what it did or did not include.

If you had said more testers were needed and/or more time was needed, I wouldn't necessarily disagree. But that's likely to be true with just about any major computer game - even a pool of 100 beta testers is not going to find problems in either the quantity or quality that a base of 1,000 or 2,000 or however many purchasers there were of the game who bought it straight away and began playing it.

turdfurgeson · 06-14-2006, 03:51 AM

Hey Cras, can you post your major problems with the game, as you see it at this point. I know endgame posted a poll about the number 1 issue that one would want to see fixed in the game. But I am more curious as to how others would rank a list of say 5 things that need to be fixed in order of importance.

I have had the game for a week, and have spent most of my time messing around with sims from a historical standpoint, but have only encountered a few issues that have bothered me. And most have been things that I think may be fixed easily/eventually. But I have not had the time until now to get into the game as far as playing/managing a game, so I have not seen the bad AI management of relievers in game. I have done some digging around in my simmed leagues to look for things like an overabundance of CEI or too many injuries in general, which has been an big topic of discussion around here. But the current set up of the game (as far as I can tell, if this info is kept per year/per team I hope some one can fill me in, otherwise I will wait for a utility) has made it difficlut for me to quantify this over any span of time while messing around with sims, as well as bad AI trades or FA signings. These seem to be a few of the complaints, but, I know, not all.
I know that performance issues and lag has definetely been a game killer for you. This is odd to me that something is causing such varied differneces in lag between different users, like I said before I had those same issues, but I followed all the advice from different threads, changed my skin to ootp blue, no simulation view, click to open windows etc. And my computer is pretty old.
And its odd because I was experiencing the same lag issues that you describe, when I would change the name of a League it would be at least 3 to 4 characters behind, and would totally mess me up. But I also tried offering contract extension to my soon to be free agents with almost no lag at all. But I forgot to test during the actual free agent period, so dammit, looks like I should try that next.
So if you can give an explanation of your top 5 or so that would be cool.

never_ends · 06-14-2006, 05:19 AM

I won't say the beta testers failed (we all have different computers for example) or blame anyone else for the problems I'm having but will say the game is 100% unplayable right now for me.

I rarely post in this forum but am not a newbie and not a troll, been playing this game a long time and reading this forum a long time. Downloaded lots of stuff from it. I am sure Markus and Co. will straighten it all out in the end, there is no doubt in my mind everyone involved with making this game tried 100% to release a game free of major bugs. And it is a great game which is why I'll wait until the fixes come.

However, there are obviously problems (for some). I haven't even got to the AI stuff I'm reading about nor any of the cosmetic stuff I'm reading about.

But, I can say that every league (universe) I've started (10 including tonight) end up the same way - fatal crash. It remains a mystery as the only common thing seems to be that the crash occurs sometime between the 12th season and 18th season, not much to go on. Once the first OOTP has suffered an error must close box comes up you can replay from the latest save position and the crash will occur everytime until you give it up. Fictional players, minor leagues plus 2 to 4 international leagues is what the universe consists of, nothing fancy there. Have played out some games but mostly simmed the seasons. That is why I say it is unplayable = fatal crash 100% of the time. Never had a problem with any other OOTP game, so this is something new.

I have seen a few other problems, slow typing during contract offer time, during league/universe setup, lack of players in some int'l leagues (so you refill the leagues), silly trades, PBP is sometimes goofy to mention 4 but none of these make the game unplayable for me, they are bugs that will surely be wiped out.

06-14-2006, 12:42 AM	#1
Cras Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: LEO Posts: 3,789	DELETED BY ADMIN! This post has been deleted because it did not follow the forum rules. __________________ The Chicago White Sox 1906, 1917, 2005 World Series Champions 1900, 1901, 1906, 1917, 1919, 1959, 2005 American League Champions 2000, 2005, 2008 American League Central Division Champions 1983, 1993 American League West Division Champions OOTP \| Orbiter \| SSMS \| FSX \| LoL \| MLP:FIM!

06-14-2006, 12:47 AM	#2
Mr.Opinion All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2003 Location: SkiFree Lodge Posts: 883	DELETED BY ADMIN! This post has been deleted because it did not follow the forum rules. __________________

06-14-2006, 12:58 AM	#4
Bishop All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Tejas Posts: 709	Seriously. We get it. Last edited by TC Dale; 06-14-2006 at 01:30 AM.

06-14-2006, 01:00 AM	#5
silvam14 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Dedham, MA Posts: 10,005	I've seen cras on these boards a lot in the months leading up to this release, and though I don't agree with his assessment of the game. I also don't think he's a troll. In fact, It seemed to me that he was every bit as excited about the release as the next guy. I just don't feel as let down as he does I guess. If this is the approach he wants to take to try to right his perceived wrongs, I feel he has earned the right to do so without being deemed a troll. Just my __________________ Senior "Nancy Boy" of the OOTP Boards _______________________________________________

06-14-2006, 01:03 AM	#6
bababui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 14,147 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	I think the game is playable, but..just not as playable..or fun..as 6.51 for people who play out games. A couple of specific issues: The interface: Its slow, cumbersome and doesnt respond at times as quickly as it should. Sometimes moving the mouse over a dropdown icon nothing happens. In offering contract terms the interface for imputing numbers is really slow and annoying..although the thought process behind it is quite good..it would be cool if it worked a little more smoothly. Player evaluations: On one screen I would like to see overall batting, fielding and speed ratings. There are just too many players in the game to keep track of everyone..and who wants to waste time continuously clicking here and there. It would make drafting and trading much easier. We will be spending a lot of time with this game and it should have the easy comfortable feeling of an old friend. Obviously it is still a work in progress but there is no reason to jump ship just yet..or be in denial. Last edited by bababui; 06-14-2006 at 01:05 AM.

06-14-2006, 01:05 AM	#8
Cras Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: LEO Posts: 3,789	How can you call me a troll when I am asking all those who post "This is unplayable" to rather do their best to find the bugs, report the bugs, and post feature requests so that this game can reach its vast potential. I want everyone out there to do this because this game has such great potential and so much of it has been untapped with this release. The sooner, in releases, that potential begins to be realized the better in my opinion. __________________ The Chicago White Sox 1906, 1917, 2005 World Series Champions 1900, 1901, 1906, 1917, 1919, 1959, 2005 American League Champions 2000, 2005, 2008 American League Central Division Champions 1983, 1993 American League West Division Champions OOTP \| Orbiter \| SSMS \| FSX \| LoL \| MLP:FIM!

06-14-2006, 01:08 AM	#11
Wabner Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 103	Gordy, didn't you read the post? He most defiantly said that he isn't here to debate. He's here to lead the charge to freedom...or something. Funny that one man's unplayable game is another man's fun evening playing a 3 game set against the Pirates. Whoops..sorry. No debating. To Freedom!!! In all seriousness, there has got to be something on TV, a book in the personal library, or even some old porn that's worth watching that is more enjoyable than to repeat the same stuff over...and over...and over again. I think your point has been made by now, eh? __________________ No High Scores: http://nohighscores.com/ Last edited by Wabner; 06-14-2006 at 01:16 AM.

06-14-2006, 01:35 AM	#15
TC Dale Global Moderator Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,963	Let's stop the bashing of folks that don't have the same experiences of those that can play the game without issues. Calling someone a troll isn't going to make things better, and we aren't going to have that as acceptable behavior any longer. Agree to disagree, but please stop the pro/con bashing.. working TOWARDS everyone having the same gameplay experience is what we are working towards, not alienating those that don't have the same experience as others. Thanks. __________________ ----------------------------------

06-14-2006, 03:51 AM	#19
turdfurgeson Major Leagues Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 421	Hey Cras, can you post your major problems with the game, as you see it at this point. I know endgame posted a poll about the number 1 issue that one would want to see fixed in the game. But I am more curious as to how others would rank a list of say 5 things that need to be fixed in order of importance. I have had the game for a week, and have spent most of my time messing around with sims from a historical standpoint, but have only encountered a few issues that have bothered me. And most have been things that I think may be fixed easily/eventually. But I have not had the time until now to get into the game as far as playing/managing a game, so I have not seen the bad AI management of relievers in game. I have done some digging around in my simmed leagues to look for things like an overabundance of CEI or too many injuries in general, which has been an big topic of discussion around here. But the current set up of the game (as far as I can tell, if this info is kept per year/per team I hope some one can fill me in, otherwise I will wait for a utility) has made it difficlut for me to quantify this over any span of time while messing around with sims, as well as bad AI trades or FA signings. These seem to be a few of the complaints, but, I know, not all. I know that performance issues and lag has definetely been a game killer for you. This is odd to me that something is causing such varied differneces in lag between different users, like I said before I had those same issues, but I followed all the advice from different threads, changed my skin to ootp blue, no simulation view, click to open windows etc. And my computer is pretty old. And its odd because I was experiencing the same lag issues that you describe, when I would change the name of a League it would be at least 3 to 4 characters behind, and would totally mess me up. But I also tried offering contract extension to my soon to be free agents with almost no lag at all. But I forgot to test during the actual free agent period, so dammit, looks like I should try that next. So if you can give an explanation of your top 5 or so that would be cool.

06-14-2006, 05:19 AM	#20
never_ends Minors (Double A) Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Nevada Posts: 133	I won't say the beta testers failed (we all have different computers for example) or blame anyone else for the problems I'm having but will say the game is 100% unplayable right now for me. I rarely post in this forum but am not a newbie and not a troll, been playing this game a long time and reading this forum a long time. Downloaded lots of stuff from it. I am sure Markus and Co. will straighten it all out in the end, there is no doubt in my mind everyone involved with making this game tried 100% to release a game free of major bugs. And it is a great game which is why I'll wait until the fixes come. However, there are obviously problems (for some). I haven't even got to the AI stuff I'm reading about nor any of the cosmetic stuff I'm reading about. But, I can say that every league (universe) I've started (10 including tonight) end up the same way - fatal crash. It remains a mystery as the only common thing seems to be that the crash occurs sometime between the 12th season and 18th season, not much to go on. Once the first OOTP has suffered an error must close box comes up you can replay from the latest save position and the crash will occur everytime until you give it up. Fictional players, minor leagues plus 2 to 4 international leagues is what the universe consists of, nothing fancy there. Have played out some games but mostly simmed the seasons. That is why I say it is unplayable = fatal crash 100% of the time. Never had a problem with any other OOTP game, so this is something new. I have seen a few other problems, slow typing during contract offer time, during league/universe setup, lack of players in some int'l leagues (so you refill the leagues), silly trades, PBP is sometimes goofy to mention 4 but none of these make the game unplayable for me, they are bugs that will surely be wiped out.