clutch ratings- gone or hiding?

[dac4m]

i know previosu versions had a player rating if a player was a clutch player or not....

Certianly this is something vital in baseball (Jeter thrived in clutch situations, Bonds was bad until 2003-4)

Is this still in there or is it gone

[jaywalk85]

Derek Jeter is clutch.

[trapper]

I thought "clutch" had been disproven time and time again. mabye they took it out for realism?

[jaywalk85]

Have you seen Jeter vs. AROD? AROD's hits never come when the Yankees need him. He is simply not clutch. Jeter is always there to pick up the Yankees.

[fauteuil7]

Sabermetrically-minded folk don't believe any one person is more clutch than another so it was most likely left out at their request. You're right about Jeter though, and without a clutch rating in this game he'd be just a pretty good shortstop instead of the player he is in real life (that just one example - he probably wouldn't be imported with a good clutch rating anyway).

It always seemed silly to me to have a close/late stat category in the game but no clutch rating. Is it a useful stat or not? If you're going to take out the rating because it's not important then why pay attention to the stat?

[sfeldkamp]

I wonder if clutch could be proven or disproven using the Win Probability and Win Probability Added statistics?

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/ar...n-probability/


P.S. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to see this added to the ingame screens.

[sfeldkamp]

Originally Posted by fauteuil7

It always seemed silly to me to have a close/late stat category in the game but no clutch rating. Is it a useful stat or not? If you're going to take out the rating because it's not important then why pay attention to the stat?

There is a difference between descriptive stats and prescriptive ones. There is no evidence (yet, not saying there won't be) that a player's past performance in close/late can predict his future performance in those situations.

The "Jeter" argument is usually countered with

• small sample size
• media attention on successes that comes from playing in NY and lots of playoff games make his clutch moments more memorable

[mh2365]

Here we go again LOL

[jaywalk85]

haha, fire meet fuel. I'm kidding.

[fauteuil7]

Originally Posted by sfeldkamp

There is a difference between descriptive stats and prescriptive ones. There is no evidence (yet, not saying there won't be) that a player's past performance in close/late can predict his future performance in those situations.

The "Jeter" argument is usually countered with

• small sample size
• media attention on successes that comes from playing in NY and lots of playoff games make his clutch moments more memorable

Yeah, you're right. I'm not firmly on either size. You forgot to include that if Jeter looked like Steve Balboni there wouldn't be so much made about his clutch performance either.

Clutch is better described in comparison like Jaywalk's post. Jeter is more clutch than A-Rod. Not too much of an arguement there whether or not you think a clutch rating should be in the game.

[Commissioner Bud Selig]

Paul Molitor was clutch.

[Can of Corn]

Bud Selig is not clutch.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by trapper

I thought "clutch" had been disproven time and time again. mabye they took it out for realism?

Actually, not so much and it depends on how you define clutch. Late-inning pressure situations have never been shown to have much of any ability behind them. However, some players do hit better with runners on base. This may be more because of a given player's ability to "hit it where they ain't" when holding baserunners creates holes in the infield (forex Ichiro IIRC gets a good boost with runners on) than any mental toughness, but it's there.

[fauteuil7]

Dutch was clutch. Wild Thing was lacking.

[BravesSince66]

...in Clutch even if Clutch is Dead. Can you REALLY say your little baseball universe is "in your hands" without the possibility of Clutch? Amen.

[Craig Scarborough]

Originally Posted by jaywalk85

Derek Jeter is clutch.

Mr. Clutch led the major leagues last year in recording the last out of a ballgame with the tying or winning run on-base.

[dsvitak]

Pujols is hitting .535 with RISP.

13 GWRBI in 50 games.

This year, he's clutch. And hurt, which sucks, but still clutch.

[fauteuil7]

Originally Posted by Craig Scarborough

Mr. Clutch led the major leagues last year in recording the last out of a ballgame with the tying or winning run on-base.

Cool stat - where did you get that from?

[CobaltJays]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Late-inning pressure situations have never been shown to have much of any ability behind them. However, some players do hit better with runners on base. This may be more because of a given player's ability to "hit it where they ain't" when holding baserunners creates holes in the infield (forex Ichiro IIRC gets a good boost with runners on) than any mental toughness, but it's there.

Hitters as a group hit better with runners on-base. That's primarily due to the fact that bad pitchers are more likely to allow baserunners than good pitchers, so the majority of at-bats with runners on will come against those bad pitchers.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by CobaltJays

Hitters as a group hit better with runners on-base. That's primarily due to the fact that bad pitchers are more likely to allow baserunners than good pitchers, so the majority of at-bats with runners on will come against those bad pitchers.

Right. That's not what I said. Even after you take selection bias into account, there is a slight correlation between boosts in hitting with runners on base from year to year.