Ootp1

waltwa · 06-01-2006, 08:31 AM

the game that we are playing is in fact OOTP1. i think that many of us wanted ootp7 which would have been an improvement over the previous edition. this is what we have come to expect with this game. instead we have what we were told to expect- a brand new game. there will be a lot of changes in this game over the next year up to and including the next edition. in the long run it will be a very good baseball game but over the next year there will be a great deal of frustration because in effect there really is a starting over process at work here.

Raidergoo · 06-01-2006, 08:32 AM

His core points are entirely correct, in my opinion.

Chisanga · 06-01-2006, 08:50 AM

Some one should sticky this and make it auto-open whenever somebody comes into the forums

CHCfan · 06-01-2006, 09:37 AM

I agree with this mindset in terms of being patient and allowing fixes to be made.

But I'd like to add that, for a "first" edition, this game appears (after roughly 6 hours of play) to be outstanding. We should be realistic about not expecting perfection, but we gotta give credit where credit is due. My favorite game ever was rewritten from the ground up, under new management no less, and I'm already having a blast with it again. Thumbs way up.

klkitchens · 06-01-2006, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waltwa

the game that we are playing is in fact OOTP1. i think that many of us wanted ootp7 which would have been an improvement over the previous edition. this is what we have come to expect with this game. instead we have what we were told to expect- a brand new game. there will be a lot of changes in this game over the next year up to and including the next edition. in the long run it will be a very good baseball game but over the next year there will be a great deal of frustration because in effect there really is a starting over process at work here.

This is not entirely true whatsoever.

As a developer, a rewrite of a later version is NOT on par at all with the original version. The developer (Markus) has gained wisdom and intelligence over the years since v1.0 that were poured into v7.0. In most cases, a later rewrite IMPROVES things because you get rid of sloppy code, patches, hacks, and otherwise, and "rewrite" the code with those features in mind.

In addition, development tools have changed in the years since 7.0.

I think too many are jumping on the rewrite as the reason for just regular old release issues... had Markus just released 7.0 without telling us it was a rewrite, you guys wouldn't think twice about them.

The_Offspring187 · 06-01-2006, 10:07 AM

I compare it to more like when a franchise like Madden or Triple Play Baseball graduates from the SNES to the PSX to the PS2, etc.

The initial games are always incredible to look at and somewhat a step above what was there before...but they are usually not "out of this world" mind-blowing at first...In subsequent releases on a new "machine" (which to me, this new engine is a "new machine") the games improve more and more, with new features being added with each installment that were left out of previous versions.

With that being said, I am truly having a blast with this game. I don't even think I got OOTP6...I played the living hell out of Season Ticket Baseball and STB2k3, and played OOTP5 like it was going out of style too. It feels nice to be able to get back into the series again. I'm having a blast just simming out my fictional league's history and watching the league grow and personalities and rivalries take form.

dolfanar · 06-01-2006, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GamingVoice

had Markus just released 7.0 without telling us it was a rewrite, you guys wouldn't think twice about them.

I for one would have been really pissed to see this game take a giant step back without a good excuse and probably would have given up alltogether
So this post has some good perspective
Im going back to 6.5 for now but Ill be back next spring with 35$ in hand because Im hoping they rewrite OOTP 2006

Jason · 06-01-2006, 12:41 PM

Completely unfair to say this is OOTP 1. Obviously a lot of the game play and general interactions of gameplay is far superior than most first versions of games.

Dark Horse · 06-01-2006, 12:53 PM

i don't think the original poster was being unfair. And i don't think he meant that this version is on par with the original version of OOTP. The point he was making that you can't think of this as the OOTP 7 because it didn't build upon v6.5. It is a new game. It would be easier for some to take this version if the they didn't know that Markus developed it. Or if it had a different name altogether.

i prefer to think of this version as a lateral move. Some think of this as negative, but it is the purpose of the lateral move that gives me hope. The reason started the new version from the ground up is to give it an opportunity to expand further, to get better. The old version, probably just couldn't get much player.

It's like trading a very popular player with a 50 overall rating and a 51 potential for an unknown player with maybe a 49 overall rating and a 99 potential. The new version has upside. We just have to be patient and let it grow.

jaxmagicman · 06-01-2006, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale And Eli's Dad

Completely unfair to say this is OOTP 1. Obviously a lot of the game play and general interactions of gameplay is far superior than most first versions of games.

I don't think that was his point. I think his point was, even though we have had 6 verisions of OOTP, the game that came out yesterday is completely different and should be considered a first in the series.

Raidergoo · 06-01-2006, 12:55 PM

I prefer to think of it a very successful ver 1 of a program. I wish more games and applications were as good out of the gate as OOTP 2006. The way things are going with this game, I expect it to make grilled bratwurst by suppertime.

Jason · 06-01-2006, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

I don't think that was his point. I think his point was, even though we have had 6 verisions of OOTP, the game that came out yesterday is completely different and should be considered a first in the series.

I agree with the general premise of that but to me "1" indicates the first of a game. There's still a lot of the old OOTP in this game so it's not exactly what I'd consider first in a series.

Kind of like the various incarnations of the Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy. Each version was different and improved on things but the basis and history carried through the various productions.

klkitchens · 06-01-2006, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Horse

i don't think the original poster was being unfair. And i don't think he meant that this version is on par with the original version of OOTP. The point he was making that you can't think of this as the OOTP 7 because it didn't build upon v6.5. It is a new game.

So you're saying Markus had a memory wipe before he started coding this one???

Of course this one built upon 6.5 and to say otherwise is silly. Just because he didn't take the old code and shoehorn changes in does NOT MEAN the old code, knowledge, or intelligence was ignored.

Some code may have been "rewritten" verbatim if it worked. If not, it may have been scrapped.

It's like those products that CLAIM to be free of animal testing. You think they ignore the testing that had gone on before and start from scratch burning out the eyes of the human product testers in the process?

A rewrite is not what you people are making it out to be. Be patient. So far this appears to be the best version of this product ever.

klkitchens · 06-01-2006, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

I don't think that was his point. I think his point was, even though we have had 6 verisions of OOTP, the game that came out yesterday is completely different and should be considered a first in the series.

And his point would be 100% incorrect. Didn't Markus rewrite after v3 or v4 as well?

Dark Horse · 06-01-2006, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GamingVoice

So you're saying Markus had a memory wipe before he started coding this one???

Of course this one built upon 6.5 and to say otherwise is silly. Just because he didn't take the old code and shoehorn changes in does NOT MEAN the old code, knowledge, or intelligence was ignored.

Some code may have been "rewritten" verbatim if it worked. If not, it may have been scrapped.

i'm not saying Markus had a memory wipe.
i'm not saying that he didn't use knowledge from the old game in the new.
i'm saying if you expected this game to be just like v6.5 that was a faulty expectation.
i'm saying (that i think) he chose to do some things differently, present things differently for a purpose.

Jason · 06-01-2006, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Horse

i'm saying if you expected this game to be just like v6.5 that was a faulty expectation.

Exactly. One thing you can't say is that Markus & Co. didn't make it very obvious that was going to be the case.

Giants44 · 06-01-2006, 02:04 PM

Interesting Spin - I would like to see Microsoft try that with Vista

bigphesta · 06-01-2006, 02:09 PM

yeah, but instead of going back to scrach, why not just fix the few minor (or major) bugs that have plagued the series since v3 and release a hellova game. Instead, we go backwards, less features, less ease of use, oh, but I can simulate a mexican league to compliment my MLB. So that's worth it.

You're right, I wanted OOTP7 and got OOTP BM 2006.

Syd Thrift · 06-01-2006, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigphesta

yeah, but instead of going back to scrach, why not just fix the few minor (or major) bugs that have plagued the series since v3 and release a hellova game. Instead, we go backwards, less features, less ease of use, oh, but I can simulate a mexican league to compliment my MLB. So that's worth it.

You're right, I wanted OOTP7 and got OOTP BM 2006.

I forget... what was the proposed name of the game again? Oh yeah, OOTP Baseball Manager 2006.

Really, I don't understand this. Everybody knew it was a top-to-bottom rewrite and not just a feature-laden patch like prior versions were. What did you expect? FWIW, I am rarin' to go with this game. It's nearly everything I'd hoped for. Yes, there are some things in 6.5 that didn't make it to 2k6 (yet). It'd be great if those made it eventually. It's still a wonderfully powerful baseball toy.

klkitchens · 06-01-2006, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Horse

i'm not saying Markus had a memory wipe.
i'm not saying that he didn't use knowledge from the old game in the new.
i'm saying if you expected this game to be just like v6.5 that was a faulty expectation.
i'm saying (that i think) he chose to do some things differently, present things differently for a purpose.

And I disagree with none of that. But none of that has to do with it being a "rewrite" and certainly doesn't make this v1 of a NEW product.

06-01-2006, 08:31 AM	#1
waltwa All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 906	Ootp1 the game that we are playing is in fact OOTP1. i think that many of us wanted ootp7 which would have been an improvement over the previous edition. this is what we have come to expect with this game. instead we have what we were told to expect- a brand new game. there will be a lot of changes in this game over the next year up to and including the next edition. in the long run it will be a very good baseball game but over the next year there will be a great deal of frustration because in effect there really is a starting over process at work here.

06-01-2006, 08:50 AM	#3
Chisanga Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 2,404	Some one should sticky this and make it auto-open whenever somebody comes into the forums __________________ "The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing."

06-01-2006, 12:53 PM	#9
Dark Horse Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas! Posts: 2,633	i don't think the original poster was being unfair. And i don't think he meant that this version is on par with the original version of OOTP. The point he was making that you can't think of this as the OOTP 7 because it didn't build upon v6.5. It is a new game. It would be easier for some to take this version if the they didn't know that Markus developed it. Or if it had a different name altogether. i prefer to think of this version as a lateral move. Some think of this as negative, but it is the purpose of the lateral move that gives me hope. The reason started the new version from the ground up is to give it an opportunity to expand further, to get better. The old version, probably just couldn't get much player. It's like trading a very popular player with a 50 overall rating and a 51 potential for an unknown player with maybe a 49 overall rating and a 99 potential. The new version has upside. We just have to be patient and let it grow. __________________ A Justafan Fan LBA Geo Bahn Rock Hounds fan of the ISLANDIAN PRO ALLIANCE

06-01-2006, 08:32 AM	#2
Raidergoo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 9,005	His core points are entirely correct, in my opinion.

06-01-2006, 09:37 AM	#4
CHCfan All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Grand Island, NE Posts: 1,117	I agree with this mindset in terms of being patient and allowing fixes to be made. But I'd like to add that, for a "first" edition, this game appears (after roughly 6 hours of play) to be outstanding. We should be realistic about not expecting perfection, but we gotta give credit where credit is due. My favorite game ever was rewritten from the ground up, under new management no less, and I'm already having a blast with it again. Thumbs way up.

06-01-2006, 10:07 AM	#6
The_Offspring187 Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Tennessee Posts: 482	I compare it to more like when a franchise like Madden or Triple Play Baseball graduates from the SNES to the PSX to the PS2, etc. The initial games are always incredible to look at and somewhat a step above what was there before...but they are usually not "out of this world" mind-blowing at first...In subsequent releases on a new "machine" (which to me, this new engine is a "new machine") the games improve more and more, with new features being added with each installment that were left out of previous versions. With that being said, I am truly having a blast with this game. I don't even think I got OOTP6...I played the living hell out of Season Ticket Baseball and STB2k3, and played OOTP5 like it was going out of style too. It feels nice to be able to get back into the series again. I'm having a blast just simming out my fictional league's history and watching the league grow and personalities and rivalries take form.

06-01-2006, 12:41 PM	#8
Jason Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 3,847	Completely unfair to say this is OOTP 1. Obviously a lot of the game play and general interactions of gameplay is far superior than most first versions of games.

06-01-2006, 12:55 PM	#11
Raidergoo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 9,005	I prefer to think of it a very successful ver 1 of a program. I wish more games and applications were as good out of the gate as OOTP 2006. The way things are going with this game, I expect it to make grilled bratwurst by suppertime.

06-01-2006, 02:04 PM	#17
Giants44 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 2,408	Interesting Spin - I would like to see Microsoft try that with Vista

06-01-2006, 02:09 PM	#18
bigphesta Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Des Moines, Iowa Posts: 1,366	yeah, but instead of going back to scrach, why not just fix the few minor (or major) bugs that have plagued the series since v3 and release a hellova game. Instead, we go backwards, less features, less ease of use, oh, but I can simulate a mexican league to compliment my MLB. So that's worth it. You're right, I wanted OOTP7 and got OOTP BM 2006.