Disappointed

[Bee]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I actually have no issue with change.

I love the SI interface.

Yet some of the decisions are baffling. I have to go to multiple places to scout a player or a team or a league or a draft. Why not just one screen, with a right click button with all of the different scouting options?

Some of the things I love and they'll only take a little time to figure out. Some of the UI decisions made are just baffling.

I agree. I like several aspects of the interface, but some of the things like scouting could have been handled much better.

[QuestGAV]

I find the new interface very cumbersome and difficult to navigate. I actually think the original poster's story is going to be one that is fairly common and will only get more so once the demo comes out and people have less investment when they start trying to tackle the interface. I've started a list of tweaks that I'd like to see, hopefully we can work with SI to make it more user friendly.

[QuestGAV]

Originally Posted by jf7623

I am disappointed in ready all the disappointment threads. People have to realize you were warned about this.

I'm disappointed in all the threads like these. Not everyone has the time or investment in the game to read a 300+ page manual in order to enjoy a game of baseball. I was worried about the UI after trying to play a bit of FM and what I've seen so far has only exacerbated those fears for me. I do think it's important to work with SI to help them fix the UI but it's massively counterproductive to lean on the people having problems and tell them they should be fawning over the product they have now.

[klkitchens]

Originally Posted by jf7623

I am disappointed in ready all the disappointment threads. People have to realize you were warned about this. This was a total re-write of the game, so no way you should see things like you did in past versions. We like something that is fresh and is new to us and this is IT. I think many many people would have been disappointed if it was the same old interface. Change is good, you just have to accept the fact that it will take time to know where everything is and how the game plays.

We should be thankful that we have a 300+ page manual for the game. The number of pages might seem too long, but in the end the rewards will be priceless for us all. We look back on this and say development team, "Thanks for the change you made, it was hard a first, but in the end it was a great thing for you to do."

So with that, enough of these disappointment threads. Let's get OUR act together and help the development team fix these bugs ASAP, so we can start seeing some online leagues go up.

If you've been around message boards for a long time you'll realize that most people can't write let alone read a manual.

Can you imagine if Markus released the game with NO manual??? People would probably be screaming over that.

For those of the illiterate set, let me translate:

"Can U imagine F M released the game WO dox??? Peeps would prolly be flippin' over that."

Sit back and relax -- intelligent gamers will produce a OOTP2006 for Dummies soon enough.

[Zitofan75]

Originally Posted by QuestGAV

I'm disappointed in all the threads like these. Not everyone has the time or investment in the game to read a 300+ page manual in order to enjoy a game of baseball.

Why? It's a new game and involves new rules, new interface, new this and new that. It makes sense that you're going to want to review the manual. It will take adjustment and this was known. I would respectfully suggest that if someone isn't willing to invest the time to learn the game this might not be for them. Still, that's likely premature. His comment simply sounds like frustration that will probably fade with time.

I agree with your other statement that no one should be told to shut up and fawn over a game that they are having trouble with but don't you think the guy was pretty quick to dismiss the game as well? I mean he hasn't read the manual, he hasn't spent much time with it but has decided to make an instant decision that the game is terrible and throw a fit.

I've found the new interface a challenege too but I stuck with it through the evening and it got easier and easier for me. Maybe the message from all of us should be, "chill out, take a breather, come back start up the game AND the manual and try simple things." Patience and persistence are likely to be more fruitful than getting upset. We were all cautioned by the mods and developers that just diving in was going to be an overwhelming experience and there's nothing wrong with taking some time. Last night I created 4 different universes but I doubt any of them will stick around I was just doing it to teach myself concepts of the game.

Please everyone, deep breaths!

[HolyCow98]

I'm still not used to the new interface....which has prevented me from getting very far in any league that I will continue with long term....but...each time I load the game up...its feeling more normal to me...each time I like it a little more than before.

It comes down to patience with me. I ask myself..."do I have the patience to learn this completely different interface?" For me...I know it will just be a matter of time before I know how to do what I want or am trying to do without having to hunt for it.

Last night, I knew I would not be able to start any leagues that I would be playing in long-term as I simply didn't have the time (hopefully this weekend). I was dying to see how the game looks and plays once you have some history built up. I simmed two league, one was a quickstart MAL league, the other was a historical league starting in 1901. I simmed about 20 seasons in each. Just seeing how in depth the game can get once you get some seasons built up from just this small sample proved to myself that learning the interface is worth it for me.

I can certainly see however if someone has little time or patience and has no desire to read the parts of the manuals (which are very well done-kudos to the team involved) that they need help in... would get a feeling of why did they change...or its not worth it etc. You just have to ask youself if its worth it to you to stick with it. For me...my biggest obstacles to starting a solo league, which is what I really want to do, all have to do with a few of the aspects of league setup, mainly financials and running the team etc. Some things I have to think about where or how did I get to that before. I suspect by this time next week I will be a well on my way into my first season (I play each game out).

[Marc Duffy]

Originally Posted by QuestGAV

I'm disappointed in all the threads like these. Not everyone has the time or investment in the game to read a 300+ page manual in order to enjoy a game of baseball. I was worried about the UI after trying to play a bit of FM and what I've seen so far has only exacerbated those fears for me. I do think it's important to work with SI to help them fix the UI but it's massively counterproductive to lean on the people having problems and tell them they should be fawning over the product they have now.

Please do share.

[battists]

Originally Posted by QuestGAV

Not everyone has the time or investment in the game to read a 300+ page manual in order to enjoy a game of baseball.

QuestGAV, I agree with you to a certain extent. But, you have to admit that the core user group for OOTPB probably isn't people who "just want to enjoy a game of baseball." OOTPB is primarily aimed at hard core baseball fans who want to simulate managing a team. The fan base here has known for months that OOTPB 2006 would be an extremely complicated and customizable product.

In the past, there have always been complaints about the manual being lousy, and more being needed. The forums were littered with questions about OOTP 6.5, transactions, waivers, Rule 5, and so forth, and there was nowhere to direct those people, other than a hundred different sticky posts with FAQs, primers, etc. that were often written back in OOTP 5 days. Not that a good manual will make those things go away, because people will always ask.

But, I guess my point is, to suggest that OOTPB is disappointing because a big manual is needed is disingenuous, in my opinion. It seems like your strongest concerns are for the UI. This game would need a 300-page manual even if the UI were perfect, IMHO.

In retrospect, OOTP 6.5 probably SHOULD have had a 300-page manual.

Anyway, just my two cents. I do agree with your other points though, and I hope you don't see this as "leaning on you."

[triggercut1]

Originally Posted by Dactyl

I must say that I'm very disappointed with OOTP 2006. I played an awful lot of the 6.0 and 6.5 versions. I expected that I would be able to get the new version and get up to speed pretty quickly. That has not proven to be the case. I'm faced with the prospect of plowing through a 60-some page manual and a user's guide, or whatever it's called, that's over 300 pages. Quite honestly, it just isn't worth it, and I'm sorry I purchased the game.

Translation: I just bought a game and unlike every other complex game out there, I was expecting to breeze right through this. Instead, I have to RTFM. Rather than do that, I'll just mope about it.

[QuestGAV]

Originally Posted by Zitofan75

I agree with your other statement that no one should be told to shut up and fawn over a game that they are having trouble with but don't you think the guy was pretty quick to dismiss the game as well? I mean he hasn't read the manual, he hasn't spent much time with it but has decided to make an instant decision that the game is terrible and throw a fit.

Please everyone, deep breaths!

Deep breaths is all I'm saying. Take a look at Marc's response to me and think about how much more likely someone is to give the game a more in-depth try if the OP heard that rather than "this game roxxors! if you don't like it shut up!"

Originally Posted by battists

QuestGAV, I agree with you to a certain extent. But, you have to admit that the core user group for OOTPB probably isn't people who "just want to enjoy a game of baseball." OOTPB is primarily aimed at hard core baseball fans who want to simulate managing a team. The fan base here has known for months that OOTPB 2006 would be an extremely complicated and customizable product.

battists you're awesome - and I agree with you. But people are going to vent a bit. If SI wants them to stick around after venting - particularly when the demo is out and they haven't already dropped cash on the game - having people jump down their throat about how they should have known the game would be over their head is going to hurt alot. I think Marc's suggestion for people to try quickstarts is an important and useful one. Tell them to sim out a month with a quickstart and then start tweaking from there. With some results in place it's going to be much easier to grasp what's going on.

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

Please do share.

Your wish is my command. New thread coming.

[TigersFan23]

Honestly, I don't think anyone really believes the game stinks or is a flat-out horrible baseball management sim- that is not how I feel.

What I do see is a great game that is hobbled by very frustrating and, frankly, horrible user interface. The menu system is just flat-out bad.

And before someone starts flaming me- I do work in the game industry and have 30+ titles to my credit. I also teach game design at a local college.

The OOTPBB 06 interface is frankly one of the most unintuitive I've seen in a long time- what used to be very intuitive is now overly complicated and frustrating.

Do I like the detail? Yes! Do I want to waste several months of my life playing it? Yes! But if I'm spending more time wading through the interface than playing- it's not a good thing.

[Zitofan75]

Originally Posted by QuestGAV

Deep breaths is all I'm saying. Take a look at Marc's response to me and think about how much more likely someone is to give the game a more in-depth try if the OP heard that rather than "this game roxxors! if you don't like it shut up!"

True, I'm also saying deep breaths for both sides, fanboys and anti-fanboys. While everyone has the right to gripe and they can do it anyway they choose we all know the golden rule and that tends to even apply to internet boards. Communication is a two way street and while it's incumbent on the listener (reader) to respond appropriately the one broadcasting their message should be intelligent enough to understand that the manner in which they express themselves is going to play into people's responses. That's human nature.

Anyhow, the response I included in your quote above is unfortunate and people shouldn't have flamed the guy, I totally agree. But to me it's just as inevitable as the initial posters' tantrum. There were also several responses encouraging the poster to calm down, chill out, and not give up as well as reponses from Marc and Steve which will hopefully carry more weight in the person's mind then a few random comments.

[battists]

Originally Posted by TigersFan23

What I do see is a great game that is hobbled by very frustrating and, frankly, horrible user interface. The menu system is just flat-out bad.

But see, this is kind of my point. Not flaming here, but this is exactly the sort of thing that contributes to arguments on the forums. I'm not saying you've done anything wrong by saying this, mind you. But, by using terms like "frankly horrible" and "flat-out bad," you're unconsciously encouraging a defensive response from people who like the game or who have more invested in it.

I know that people need to vent, and that to vent, people feel the need to use strong words. But you just have to understand the reality of the internet messaging board world. If you're going to post something like that, people are going to get their backs up and reply.

You could get the same point across, with a better change of effecting change, by writing a post with specific examples of your concerns, and some suggested alternatives. As someone who works in the gaming industry, you know this. When you teach game design, and someone submits a project that isn't intuitive, I would kinda hope that you point out specific areas of concern, rather than telling a student, that their work is "frankly horrible" and "flat-out bad."

Does that make any sense?

[tward13]

Haven't had a chance to play yet. No internet connection at home last night.
(perfect timing)

But in reading these comments let me just say that I found the EHM interface to be confusing at first. I was frustrated and put the game down for a bit. But I kept reading how great it was, put a little more time into it and got comfortable with it.

It takes time. It's a new game. It'll be worth it. I probably still won't read the manual.

[chimanbj]

Originally Posted by Dactyl

I must say that I'm very disappointed with OOTP 2006. I played an awful lot of the 6.0 and 6.5 versions. I expected that I would be able to get the new version and get up to speed pretty quickly. That has not proven to be the case. I'm faced with the prospect of plowing through a 60-some page manual and a user's guide, or whatever it's called, that's over 300 pages. Quite honestly, it just isn't worth it, and I'm sorry I purchased the game.

Come on now. Your point about expecting to get up to speed pretty quickly is where you made your mistake. If you had been following along with the TRTR posts, you would have seen that things are VERY different with this version of the software. Some things are WAY cooler (the depth of stats, for one), and some things are going to take some time to get used to (the interface), but I think if you give it a daily run for a month, you'll never look back at 6.5 again.

When I played Earl Weaver Baseball, I thought it was the best until I played Hardball, until I played Tony LaRussa Baseball, until I played Front Page Sports Baseball, until I finally got to OOTP. I'm here, and although it doesn't have the arcade-style graphics (do we need those? This is a statistical wet dream!) it is clearly the best on the block.

Not to mention, Markus actually responds to user input and feedback. I may go back to 6.5 for grins and giggles now and again, but OOTP 2006 is my new crack!

[Cornelius McGillicuddy]

Wow. Makes me glad that this is my first ootp game. No preconceptions.

So far all I've had time to do is read the manual a couple times, put logos etc in folders, and fool around with how to set up a game. At this time I find the interface just fine. Might change my mind later but from the manual it looks like it'll be ok.

Some of the comments on this forum just aren't accurate. One said that you can't sim the rest of a game in progress. That worried me. What did I get into? What if I play two innings and have to leave? Then I looked it up and found that statement just plain false. Now I take all the negative stuff with a grain of salt.

Today I expect to set up a league and start playing. I expect to have mostly positive comments and maybe some "suggestions."

And I'm not some sort of fanboy, just realistic. Been playing war and strategy games for a long time. This game, with the manual and guide, really isn't all that complicated.

[Zubes]

just think with what the comments would be like if the game stayed the same. people would be complaining because they shelled out the money for another OOTP5/6 game that could have been done with a patch.

be happy enough people took the time to even give you a users guide to refer to when you have questions.

if you had reservations about how the game was going to turn out after be warned it was going to be different, then you shouldnt have ordered it and waited for the demo.

i think the game is great, and i am sure over the next few weeks its going to be no trouble at all to learn the workings of this game.

thanks again to the ootp/si team!

[Bears5122]

I know it's a completely new version, but I see where he is coming from. It is daunting and at times yesterday, I just shut it down and went and did something else. I guess I don't get as detailed as some do which might be why I don't need a completely detailed interface. I hope I catch on soon, because if I don't, I'll probably end up just playing something else. I understand I'd be missing a great game, but I just don't have that kind of time.

I do wonder if this new interface will effect sales. It seems that it was built for the percent of guys who get really detailed with things and can put a lot of time into the game. Nothing wrong with that, but you wonder if that percent is a large percent of the base.

[Zubes]

Originally Posted by rich12545

This game, with the manual and guide, really isn't all that complicated.

thats actually all that really needed to be said. kudos!

[Bee]

Originally Posted by Bears5122

I know it's a completely new version, but I see where he is coming from. It is daunting and at times yesterday, I just shut it down and went and did something else. I guess I don't get as detailed as some do which might be why I don't need a completely detailed interface. I hope I catch on soon, because if I don't, I'll probably end up just playing something else. I understand I'd be missing a great game, but I just don't have that kind of time.

I do wonder if this new interface will effect sales. It seems that it was built for the percent of guys who get really detailed with things and can put a lot of time into the game. Nothing wrong with that, but you wonder if that percent is a large percent of the base.

The interface doesn't seem to have hurt the sales of FM.