I pray this is just an exception

dashby · 06-01-2006, 01:49 AM

I have played through April 9. So far I've lost my starting 1B, CF, Number 2 SP, and top MR to injuries. 1B for only 2 weeks. SP and CF 7-8 MONTHS!! My stud MR for 7-8 weeks.
The only thing I can figure is this is the NL Chicago team and the injury curse has manifested itself into OOTP. Seriously, though, this just isn't right.

Also, the pbp as noted in many other posts is shaky at best. I tied a game up at 1-1 in the 8th inning with a homerun and the pbp showed it 2-2.

In a quickplay game my starting pitcher was left in for 141 pitches. Again, maybe this is just the Cubs factor.

So far I'm less than impressed by the gameplay. I do like the interface (will take some getting used to) but, all these bizzare gameplay anomalies have me troubled.

ozziethesaint · 06-01-2006, 01:51 AM

Injuries do seem to be happening way too often. I started a game as the '05 Cardinals using Lahman...

and in spring training i lost
Larry Walker
Reggie Sanders
Adam Wainwright
Jeff Suppan
and
Hector Luna

and they were all hurt for at least a min. of 6 weeks each

Raidergoo · 06-01-2006, 08:23 AM

Spring training can be brutal. There is an increased chance for injury.

If you think injuries are a bit high, you can toggle them down during set up. As for me, I like them where they are at, as they can be brutal once they pile up.

Scritty · 06-01-2006, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raidergoo

Spring training can be brutal. There is an increased chance for injury.

If you think injuries are a bit high, you can toggle them down during set up. As for me, I like them where they are at, as they can be brutal once they pile up.

Yeah, noticed some of the default settings (that you can change during setup) were not defaulting to realistic levels.

Injuries, Pitcher changes, steals, sac bunts and sac flys,etc can all be modified at the start of the game with a DD menu.

Like I said, quite a few don't default to the "realsitic" setting ...

Don't ask me why.... would have seemed to obvious thing to do

but hey it's only a button click

Clarker

Zweiblumen · 06-01-2006, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scritty

Yeah, noticed some of the default settings (that you can change during setup) were not defaulting to realistic levels.

Injuries, Pitcher changes, steals, sac bunts and sac flys,etc can all be modified at the start of the game with a DD menu.

Like I said, quite a few don't default to the "realsitic" setting ...

Don't ask me why.... would have seemed to obvious thing to do

but hey it's only a button click

Clarker

I don't know...look around the league. Look at the Yankees. I think that ootp has always been light on the injuries, and you never had to have serious depth to contend. I'm happy to see that change.

Scritty · 06-01-2006, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zweiblumen

I don't know...look around the league. Look at the Yankees. I think that ootp has always been light on the injuries, and you never had to have serious depth to contend. I'm happy to see that change.

I agree,

But the option is there to reduce injuries for those that don't

I call that a "win/win" situation

In 6.5 I would rotate no more than 5/6 pitchers in a whole season, never needed more. Sometimes deliberately picked apitcher for realism sake, but it all seemed kinda fake.

Now I gotta know my options - and that's good..

Clarker

Markus Heinsohn · 06-01-2006, 08:56 AM

The injury system mirrors real life injury frequency/duration with the default setting. Looks like you just got unliky, these things happen.

Bee · 06-01-2006, 08:58 AM

I think the average number of injuries I've seen are pretty realistic, but during my first 3 seasons I did have a 2 month string where it seemed everyone got hurt. For example, my top 3 starters went out for the season in a 10 day span and almost every one of my starting eight were injured for at least 2 weeks during that 2 month period. But beyond that 2 month period, the rest of the time the injuries have been pretty reasonable.

genghisdunn · 06-01-2006, 09:15 AM

We simmed out a year of our imported league, and the number and severity of injuries was astonishing. Of the top 15-20 pitchers in the league, 8 went down with major injuries. The previous season's MVPs both went down with injuries, as did a whole list of All-Stars.

Yikes.

KurtBevacqua · 06-01-2006, 09:26 AM

Sports sims traditionally sand bag injuries because game players hate them. So whenever a sim comes out with a realistic model it takes gameplayers by big surprise. Injuries are much more frequent IRL than your typical sports sim shows.

Bee · 06-01-2006, 09:43 AM

It wouldn't be too hard to check the more serious injuries to see how it stacks up to real life. Here's a link to the DL transactions from 2004 in MLB:

http://www.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/in...ries_index.jsp

(It's not nearly as bad as it first looks because many of the transactions are reported multiple times and it includes moving guys from the 15 day DL to 60 day DL as well)
--------
Here's what I mean:

Atlanta Braves
Carlos Guzman, 09/01/04, Placed on the 15-day disabled list.
Carlos Guzman, 09/01/04, Placed on the 15-day disabled list.
Carlos Guzman, 09/01/04, Placed on the 15-day disabled list.
Horacio Ramirez, 08/01/04, Transferred from the 15-day to the 60-day disabled list.
Horacio Ramirez, 08/01/04, Transferred from the 15-day to the 60-day disabled list.
Horacio Ramirez, 08/01/04, Transferred from the 15-day to the 60-day disabled list.
Horacio Ramirez, 05/30/04, Placed on 15-day disabled list (inflamed left shoulder).
Horacio Ramirez, 05/30/04, Placed on 15-day disabled list (inflamed left shoulder).
Horacio Ramirez, 05/30/04, Placed on 15-day disabled list (inflamed left shoulder).

That's a lot of lines to report two injuries...heh.
-----------------

Now this wouldn't track nagging injuries and the like, but it should give a rough idea of how the game is doing vs real life. I'm sure something more in depth that this has already been done during beta, but it might still be interesting to see the results.

thbroman · 06-01-2006, 10:17 AM

I agree that players today spend a lot of time not playing because of injuries, but if you are trying to play any kind of historical league then injury rates resembling today's will look completely crazy, unless injury frequencies have been adjusted to different historical periods, which I haven't seen any mention of.

Fortuantely, one can adjust injury rates even after a leauge has begun . . .

Raidergoo · 06-01-2006, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KurtBevacqua

Sports sims traditionally sand bag injuries because game players hate them. So whenever a sim comes out with a realistic model it takes gameplayers by big surprise. Injuries are much more frequent IRL than your typical sports sim shows.

The brutal violence of this game rarely shows up in the game, and when it does people tend to be unhappy. They have been conditioned on less harsh models.

The game can be reconfigured to suit tastes.

triggercut1 · 06-01-2006, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozziethesaint

Injuries do seem to be happening way too often. I started a game as the '05 Cardinals using Lahman...

and in spring training i lost
Larry Walker
Reggie Sanders
Adam Wainwright
Jeff Suppan
and
Hector Luna

and they were all hurt for at least a min. of 6 weeks each

Soup and Luna are your exceptions, but Sanders, Walker, and Wainwright all missed at least 2 months of the season in 2005 due to injury. Be thrilled if you're using that team and have kept Rolen from getting Choi'd.

sfgiants88 · 06-01-2006, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KurtBevacqua

Sports sims traditionally sand bag injuries because game players hate them. So whenever a sim comes out with a realistic model it takes gameplayers by big surprise. Injuries are much more frequent IRL than your typical sports sim shows.

Well said.

Injuries in 6.5 were really low: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar....php?t=101183&

I think it is good that Markus made realistic injuries frequencies an option. If you want fewer injuries, it is quite easy to toggle the button.

Claybor · 06-01-2006, 11:50 AM

Injuries in "real life" are only so high because players today are a bunch of wussies. In the past (when men were supposedly smaller/weaker) players played through minor injuries (most folks dont get off from work for a sore toe) and pitchers pitched complete games (pitch count, wtf), and ballplayers were men. Now we have a bunch of apparently out of shape (or in too good a shape) boys who bitch and moan about every little setback, and sit on the bench with hangnails. No complaint on the game here, its allways been easy to scale back injuries, and I do. The hell with modern day "realism", I like baseball as it was when folks actually played the game and not played themselves and the TV cameras. Realism has its place, but this is a game which is supposed to be fun, and losing 20% of your roster during spring traing is ridiculous even if "real". Just my 2 cents, I am sure there will be plenty to disagree.

06-01-2006, 01:49 AM	#1
dashby Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 153	I pray this is just an exception I have played through April 9. So far I've lost my starting 1B, CF, Number 2 SP, and top MR to injuries. 1B for only 2 weeks. SP and CF 7-8 MONTHS!! My stud MR for 7-8 weeks. The only thing I can figure is this is the NL Chicago team and the injury curse has manifested itself into OOTP. Seriously, though, this just isn't right. Also, the pbp as noted in many other posts is shaky at best. I tied a game up at 1-1 in the 8th inning with a homerun and the pbp showed it 2-2. In a quickplay game my starting pitcher was left in for 141 pitches. Again, maybe this is just the Cubs factor. So far I'm less than impressed by the gameplay. I do like the interface (will take some getting used to) but, all these bizzare gameplay anomalies have me troubled.

06-01-2006, 09:15 AM	#9
genghisdunn Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 119	We simmed out a year of our imported league, and the number and severity of injuries was astonishing. Of the top 15-20 pitchers in the league, 8 went down with major injuries. The previous season's MVPs both went down with injuries, as did a whole list of All-Stars. Yikes. __________________ Proud owner of the 5-time RLPA World Champion Houston Astros.

06-01-2006, 09:26 AM	#10
KurtBevacqua Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 2,968	Sports sims traditionally sand bag injuries because game players hate them. So whenever a sim comes out with a realistic model it takes gameplayers by big surprise. Injuries are much more frequent IRL than your typical sports sim shows. __________________ "The type and formula of most schemes of philanthropy or humanitarianism is this: A and B put their heads together to decide what C shall be made to do for D. The radical vice of all these schemes, from a sociological point of view, is that C is not allowed a voice in the matter, and his position, character, and interests, as well as the ultimate effects on society through C's interests, are entirely overlooked. I call C the Forgotten Man" - William Graham Sumner

06-01-2006, 09:43 AM	#11
Bee Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 147	It wouldn't be too hard to check the more serious injuries to see how it stacks up to real life. Here's a link to the DL transactions from 2004 in MLB: http://www.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/in...ries_index.jsp (It's not nearly as bad as it first looks because many of the transactions are reported multiple times and it includes moving guys from the 15 day DL to 60 day DL as well) -------- Here's what I mean: Atlanta Braves Carlos Guzman, 09/01/04, Placed on the 15-day disabled list. Carlos Guzman, 09/01/04, Placed on the 15-day disabled list. Carlos Guzman, 09/01/04, Placed on the 15-day disabled list. Horacio Ramirez, 08/01/04, Transferred from the 15-day to the 60-day disabled list. Horacio Ramirez, 08/01/04, Transferred from the 15-day to the 60-day disabled list. Horacio Ramirez, 08/01/04, Transferred from the 15-day to the 60-day disabled list. Horacio Ramirez, 05/30/04, Placed on 15-day disabled list (inflamed left shoulder). Horacio Ramirez, 05/30/04, Placed on 15-day disabled list (inflamed left shoulder). Horacio Ramirez, 05/30/04, Placed on 15-day disabled list (inflamed left shoulder). That's a lot of lines to report two injuries...heh. ----------------- Now this wouldn't track nagging injuries and the like, but it should give a rough idea of how the game is doing vs real life. I'm sure something more in depth that this has already been done during beta, but it might still be interesting to see the results. Last edited by Bee; 06-01-2006 at 09:45 AM.

06-01-2006, 11:50 AM	#16
Claybor All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 1,360 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Injuries in "real life" are only so high because players today are a bunch of wussies. In the past (when men were supposedly smaller/weaker) players played through minor injuries (most folks dont get off from work for a sore toe) and pitchers pitched complete games (pitch count, wtf), and ballplayers were men. Now we have a bunch of apparently out of shape (or in too good a shape) boys who bitch and moan about every little setback, and sit on the bench with hangnails. No complaint on the game here, its allways been easy to scale back injuries, and I do. The hell with modern day "realism", I like baseball as it was when folks actually played the game and not played themselves and the TV cameras. Realism has its place, but this is a game which is supposed to be fun, and losing 20% of your roster during spring traing is ridiculous even if "real". Just my 2 cents, I am sure there will be plenty to disagree. Last edited by Claybor; 06-01-2006 at 11:51 AM.

06-01-2006, 01:51 AM	#2
ozziethesaint Banned Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Peoria IL Posts: 831	Injuries do seem to be happening way too often. I started a game as the '05 Cardinals using Lahman... and in spring training i lost Larry Walker Reggie Sanders Adam Wainwright Jeff Suppan and Hector Luna and they were all hurt for at least a min. of 6 weeks each

06-01-2006, 08:23 AM	#3
Raidergoo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 9,005	Spring training can be brutal. There is an increased chance for injury. If you think injuries are a bit high, you can toggle them down during set up. As for me, I like them where they are at, as they can be brutal once they pile up.

06-01-2006, 08:56 AM	#7
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,805	The injury system mirrors real life injury frequency/duration with the default setting. Looks like you just got unliky, these things happen.

06-01-2006, 08:58 AM	#8
Bee Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 147	I think the average number of injuries I've seen are pretty realistic, but during my first 3 seasons I did have a 2 month string where it seemed everyone got hurt. For example, my top 3 starters went out for the season in a 10 day span and almost every one of my starting eight were injured for at least 2 weeks during that 2 month period. But beyond that 2 month period, the rest of the time the injuries have been pretty reasonable.

06-01-2006, 10:17 AM	#12
thbroman All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 867	I agree that players today spend a lot of time not playing because of injuries, but if you are trying to play any kind of historical league then injury rates resembling today's will look completely crazy, unless injury frequencies have been adjusted to different historical periods, which I haven't seen any mention of. Fortuantely, one can adjust injury rates even after a leauge has begun . . .