AI considering park factors?

[MannyTrillo]

Ummmmm... yeah, so, isn't it cool that the AI takes park factors into account when evaluating players?

[Sim Rat]

Private citizens can be made to submit to a drug test by their employers. So if baseball players are required to do the same thing, they would not be treated any differently than many other employees in this world. Major League Baseball should require all players to submit to drug tests, in order to make sure that the game is being played fairly and without the use of illegally distributed drugs.

Steroids are illegal without proper prescriptions and some varieties are banned outright. It is a matter of federal law. If players are using steroids and they are being distributed in violation of the law, then people should be arrested and put in prison for it. That's what happens to the "private citizens" of the world, like doctors, who are caught distributing steroids without just medical cause and appropriate prescriptions.

No one is talking about making baseball players submit to drug tests for the benefit of someone on the street. It's an issue of federal law and an issue of integrity in the game of baseball. Baseball players should not be above the law and allowed to purchase drugs illegally. They should not be involved in illegal activities whatsoever, and if they are, then they should be accountable for their actions through the legal system, just like everyone else.

[Sim Rat]

Also, have a look at the Barry Bonds hit tracker at the Major League Baseball official web site. Pull up PacBell Park and then look through the 2000, 2001, and 2002 seasons. You'll see that Bonds consistently hits as many home runs to right field and down the right field line as he does in all other areas of the park combined. He certainly hits his fair share to right center and center field, but for all three years you pretty much have to add up all his left field, center field, and right center field homers to get match his right field totals.

[asamford]

Originally posted by MannyTrillo
Ummmmm... yeah, so, isn't it cool that the AI takes park factors into account when evaluating players?

yes, it is.

thanks for pointing that out Manny.

[Treches]

It would be great if that was implemented, which I frankly doubt it is. The example posted here by the original poster doesn't exactly prove that's happening, in my opinion.

[lynchjm24]

Originally posted by Sim Rat
Private citizens can be made to submit to a drug test by their employers. So if baseball players are required to do the same thing, they would not be treated any differently than many other employees in this world. Major League Baseball should require all players to submit to drug tests, in order to make sure that the game is being played fairly and without the use of illegally distributed drugs.

Steroids are illegal without proper prescriptions and some varieties are banned outright. It is a matter of federal law. If players are using steroids and they are being distributed in violation of the law, then people should be arrested and put in prison for it. That's what happens to the "private citizens" of the world, like doctors, who are caught distributing steroids without just medical cause and appropriate prescriptions.

No one is talking about making baseball players submit to drug tests for the benefit of someone on the street. It's an issue of federal law and an issue of integrity in the game of baseball. Baseball players should not be above the law and allowed to purchase drugs illegally. They should not be involved in illegal activities whatsoever, and if they are, then they should be accountable for their actions through the legal system, just like everyone else.

This is absurd.

Yes, I hope they start putting steroid users in prison. That's where our tax dollars need to go.

I'm sure the concept of collective bargaining is lost on you - but things like drug testing need to be negotiated. This is on top of the fact that steriod testing lags well behind the science of performance enhancing drugs.

[lynchjm24]

Originally posted by Treches
It would be great if that was implemented, which I frankly doubt it is. The example posted here by the original poster doesn't exactly prove that's happening, in my opinion.

It's only worthwhile if it's done correctly. Just having teams in 'pitcher's parks' stay away from power hitters would not be worthwhile.

[Treches]

Originally posted by lynchjm24
It's only worthwhile if it's done correctly. Just having teams in 'pitcher's parks' stay away from power hitters would not be worthwhile.

Nods. And it would be quite dull as well. In any case, It'd be the pitcher staying away from a team with a hitters' park, not viceversa, which would make sense. Create *one* team with a park that heavily favors left-handed batters. If that team happens to be signing the best lefties in the game or even setting up a heavy lefty line-up, I may be a believer. As of now, I'm not.

[jjd]

Attached is the HR chart for Bonds at PacBell. He obviously hits a bunch down the RF line, but he hits them all over the rest fo the park too. God this guy has hit some bombs.

[jjd]

This time with the picture...

[CBL-Commish]

Originally posted by Sim Rat
Also, have a look at the Barry Bonds hit tracker at the Major League Baseball official web site. Pull up PacBell Park and then look through the 2000, 2001, and 2002 seasons. You'll see that Bonds consistently hits as many home runs to right field and down the right field line as he does in all other areas of the park combined. He certainly hits his fair share to right center and center field, but for all three years you pretty much have to add up all his left field, center field, and right center field homers to get match his right field totals.

You're completely ignoring the fact that he hits more home runs to all fields in all the other parks in baseball than he does in Pac Bell. If the designers of Pac Bell wanted Bonds to hit a ton of homers there they did a pretty poor job, because he hits more per at bat in any generic, league-average road park than he does at home.

Don't most home run hitters pull the ball a lot? Do you completely discount, say, Manny Ramirez' numbers because he jacks a lot of balls over the Green Monster? Do you also get completely bitter and defensive when someone points out that Babe Ruth hit his fair share of home runs to right field in old Yankee Stadium (which was actually designed with him in mind - 296 to right, 460 in the LF power alley)?

You obviously decided that Bonds was taking steroids and therefore deserved your ridicule, and then came up with this idea that his park jacks up his home run totals to knock down his credibility before you actually looked into the facts.

[Crapshoot]

Originally posted by CBL-Commish
You're completely ignoring the fact that he hits more home runs to all fields in all the other parks in baseball than he does in Pac Bell. If the designers of Pac Bell wanted Bonds to hit a ton of homers there they did a pretty poor job, because he hits more per at bat in any generic, league-average road park than he does at home.

Don't most home run hitters pull the ball a lot? Do you completely discount, say, Manny Ramirez' numbers because he jacks a lot of balls over the Green Monster? Do you also get completely bitter and defensive when someone points out that Babe Ruth hit his fair share of home runs to right field in old Yankee Stadium (which was actually designed with him in mind - 296 to right, 460 in the LF power alley)?

You obviously decided that Bonds was taking steroids and therefore deserved your ridicule, and then came up with this idea that his park jacks up his home run totals to knock down his credibility before you actually looked into the facts.

Well said. I apologize for hijacking this thread initially with the response to Simrat, but blatant ignorance bothers me..

[Sim Rat]

I'm not ignoring any facts whatsoever. But I have shown you guys the evidence that the short right field in PacBell Park is part of what inflates his home run totals. How many of his home runs have been in hitter friendly parks? How many have been in pitchers' parks? How many have been in parks with short right field dimensions? When we can assemble all that data and break down his road home runs properly, then maybe you'd have a point. But just simply pointing out that he has hit barely more home runs on the road than at home doesn't do much for your case. If you can't distinguish WHERE those home runs were hit, then I can't be so easily convinced.

As far as all this garbage about defending players' rights to use illegally distributed drugs, anyone who supports such a thing is completely devoid of moral character in my opinion. But, hey, that is just my opinion. But the law is on the side of those who believe that steroid use is wrong.

But hey ... maybe you're right. Why don't we just let them use cocaine, beat their wives and girlfriends, and break any other laws they want? Why not? That would maximize the savings to our tax dollars, wouldn't it?

I think you've got a great point. Let's divert our tax dollars away from enforcing the law, and direct it to subsizing more stadiums for roid freaks to set bogus records in. Sounds great to me.

And as for Babe Ruth and all the rest, I believe that baseball went to hell after the dead ball era. Home runs went up over 40% from 1919 to 1920, when Ruth had his first 50 home run season. The home runs shot up dramatically in both leagues. Why? Because a new baseball was put into play, which was juiced up. So, yes, I am even critical of Babe Ruth and I would like to know what he would have ever done if he had still been hitting in the same ballparks and using the same ball as the dead ball era.

[ctorg]

Can you guys take the Barry Bonds argument to a different thread, maybe in a more appropriate forum? Whether or not Pac Bell is good for Barry Bonds has little to do with the initial question.

I'm not saying it's not a good debate to have, just asking that it not get in the way of actual replies to the question.

[Sim Rat]

I agree ctorg, and I don't think there is anything more to say on the matter anyway. If we've established that the AI does take park factors into account when drafting teams and signing players, then mission accomplished.

[Treches]

Originally posted by Sim Rat
I agree ctorg, and I don't think there is anything more to say on the matter anyway. If we've established that the AI does take park factors into account when drafting teams and signing players, then mission accomplished.

I don't know if anything has been established here, but the AI taking park factors into account has surely not.

[y2kornhusker]

"Steroids and andro"

Well thank you for that very informed and well-documented opinion citing evidence and facts rather than just hearsay and gossip.

You people disgust me when you say that sort of stuff

[y2kornhusker]

Also, regarding the question at hand, perhaps the parks have had an effect on the players' talent in some form

[Crapshoot]

Originally posted by Sim Rat
I'm not ignoring any facts whatsoever. But I have shown you guys the evidence that the short right field in PacBell Park is part of what inflates his home run totals. How many of his home runs have been in hitter friendly parks? How many have been in pitchers' parks? How many have been in parks with short right field dimensions? When we can assemble all that data and break down his road home runs properly, then maybe you'd have a point. But just simply pointing out that he has hit barely more home runs on the road than at home doesn't do much for your case. If you can't distinguish WHERE those home runs were hit, then I can't be so easily convinced.

As far as all this garbage about defending players' rights to use illegally distributed drugs, anyone who supports such a thing is completely devoid of moral character in my opinion. But, hey, that is just my opinion. But the law is on the side of those who believe that steroid use is wrong.

But hey ... maybe you're right. Why don't we just let them use cocaine, beat their wives and girlfriends, and break any other laws they want? Why not? That would maximize the savings to our tax dollars, wouldn't it?

I think you've got a great point. Let's divert our tax dollars away from enforcing the law, and direct it to subsizing more stadiums for roid freaks to set bogus records in. Sounds great to me.

And as for Babe Ruth and all the rest, I believe that baseball went to hell after the dead ball era. Home runs went up over 40% from 1919 to 1920, when Ruth had his first 50 home run season. The home runs shot up dramatically in both leagues. Why? Because a new baseball was put into play, which was juiced up. So, yes, I am even critical of Babe Ruth and I would like to know what he would have ever done if he had still been hitting in the same ballparks and using the same ball as the dead ball era.

Okay, Simrat, Im going to try to explain this to you once more, slowly so you can understand. You argued that PAC Bell inflates Bonds' HR totals; the numbers proved you wrong. You argued that PAC BELL is a great hitting park for Bonds; the numbers proved that it was in fact, one of the worst, and that the RF wasnt providing any great advantage. You then argued that the road parks made his numbers inflated; well he plays the majority of his games in the NL west, which includes some awful hitters parks such as Qualcomm and Dodger stadium, one just above average park in Bank One and one great park in Coors;
furthermore, not only are Qualcomm and Dodger Stadium bad, they along with Pac Bell form 3 of the 4 worst parks in baseball for
hitters (Park factors are from 99-01 seasons); thus he plays the majority of his games in parks that arent just bad for hitters, but truly awful ones. The one great hitters park, Coors, was not that great for Bonds (compared to his own, lofty standards); he had an OPS of 1360, which would be an amazin number for anyone else but was actually below his total 1381 OPS. Furthermore, he had a total RARP (Runs above Replacement PLayer) of 140.6, which takes all the parks and park factors into account; that is
more than all but 2 OUTFIELDS in baseball last year.

So far, you've been proved wrong on every contention you have made; thus you turn to the steriods bs, where you run your mouth of with nothing back you up; I give you credit for consistency though; that has remained your arguementitive style throughout. If you want to stick to you beliefs, by all means do so; it is your right. Do not on the other hand pretend that the truth has anything to do with it. I know Im being rude at this point, but this is abject stupidity, and it bothers me a lot.