Adding leagues as the universe goes on - Page 6

KWhit · 05-01-2006, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Cras pretty much covered it. Used mostly in single division leagues. Top four teams made the playoffs. First round matchups were 1st vs. 4th and 2nd vs. 3rd, or 1st vs. 3rd and 2nd vs. 4th, depending on the league.

Why in the world would a league have a 1st vs. 3rd and 2nd vs. 4th playoff format? I'm not doubting that it existed (or currently exists), but why seed the teams like that? Is it some way to try to give a better chance for the #2 team to make the finals? It unfairly penalizes the top team IMO.

Mad Jackal · 05-01-2006, 04:56 PM

I believe leagues in Europe use a format similar to this to seed 1vs5 2vs6 3vs7 4vs8 as it them makes each playoff game closer and more exciting.

Wheras the US is traditionaly set to try to match the top seeds in the final bracket. 1 vs 8 then winner of that vs winner of 4/5.
2 vs 7 with winner playing winner of 3/6 etc.

In only a 4 team playoff I can see this 1 vs 3 and 2 vs 4 helping to ensure that the no 2 seed makes it to face number 1 in the final. But frankly, if you need to face a weaker team to get to the finals I don't think you belong there....That going for both the 1st seed and 2nd seed.

Cras · 05-01-2006, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWhit

Why in the world would a league have a 1st vs. 3rd and 2nd vs. 4th playoff format?

My guess is so that the first round games are more competitive. Or that the two series are more balanced. The reason for the playoff format was revenue anyway, iirc. It wasn't really designed to be fair.

spark240 · 05-02-2006, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWhit

Why in the world would a league have a 1st vs. 3rd and 2nd vs. 4th playoff format? I'm not doubting that it existed (or currently exists), but why seed the teams like that? Is it some way to try to give a better chance for the #2 team to make the finals? It unfairly penalizes the top team IMO.

Well, there are arguments both ways (and of course arguments against using ANY kind of seeded-tournament format), but the first thing that pops to my mind is: the 1v3/2v4 arrangement gives teams an incentive to fight for 2nd place; it means the difference between playing the 4th or the 1st team in the league. The counter argument, of course, is why fight for 1st when that pits you against a BETTER team than if you finished 2nd? That's why I think the 1v4/2v3 Shaughnessy is the better one. The biggest incentive should always be for first place.

Related thought: I wonder if we'll be able to set extreme home-field advantages for higher seeds in playoffs, for example, wild card teams get NO home games in the first round?

Le Grande Orange · 05-02-2006, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spark240

Related thought: I wonder if we'll be able to set extreme home-field advantages for higher seeds in playoffs, for example, wild card teams get NO home games in the first round?

If OOTP6 is any guide, you'll probably be able to alter the playoff schedule for a particular playoff series via the schedule editor.

KWhit · 05-02-2006, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spark240

The counter argument, of course, is why fight for 1st when that pits you against a BETTER team than if you finished 2nd? That's why I think the 1v4/2v3 Shaughnessy is the better one. The biggest incentive should always be for first place.

Yeah. That's why I'm surprised that a 1v3, 2v4 would ever be used.

It also rewards a team for being 4th as opposed to being 3rd. I would think that under this format, some end of year tanking would be taking place. Silly format, IMO.

Le Grande Orange · 05-02-2006, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWhit

It also rewards a team for being 4th as opposed to being 3rd.

Don't forget though that regardless of which team the 1st and 2nd place clubs play, finishing in the top two spots gets you home advantage in the first round.

KWhit · 05-02-2006, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Don't forget though that regardless of which team the 1st and 2nd place clubs play, finishing in the top two spots gets you home advantage in the first round.

Of course.

Which would minimize some of the tanking, I guess. I still don't like it. You should be rewarded significantly for being 1st, IMO.

disposableheros · 05-02-2006, 03:28 PM

i cant imagine a team tanking games to get the 2nd spot instead of the first (or 4th over 3rd). you have no control over what happens to the other teams, so there's no way to guarantee it will happen like you want it to. that would be a pretty big risk, with very little reward.

edit: added missing word

KWhit · 05-02-2006, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disposableheros

i cant imagine a team tanking games to get the 2nd spot instead of the first (or 4th over 3rd). you have no control over what happens to the other teams, so there's no way to guarantee it happen like you want it to. that would be a pretty big risk, with very little reward.

The home field advantage in the second round (finals) is what would probably keep a team from tanking to get the 2nd spot instead of the 1st. Having said that, I still think it's unfair that the 1 seed would ever have to play a tougher team than the 2 seed. That just makes no sense from a competitive point of view.

Le Grande Orange · 05-02-2006, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disposableheros

i cant imagine a team tanking games to get the 2nd spot instead of the first (or 4th over 3rd). you have no control over what happens to the other teams, so there's no way to guarantee it happen like you want it to.

That's a good point. There's also the post-season payouts to the players from playoff proceeds, which are usually divided up in part by position of finish in the regular season.

Gorilla Shakespeare · 05-02-2006, 03:46 PM

Not to mention the point that your fans won't come out to see you play if they think you're not playing to the best of your ability.

Cras · 05-02-2006, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

If OOTP6 is any guide, you'll probably be able to alter the playoff schedule for a particular playoff series via the schedule editor.

I was not aware you could do this in OOTP6. I will have to check this out

theobscure · 05-02-2006, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWhit

The home field advantage in the second round (finals) is what would probably keep a team from tanking to get the 2nd spot instead of the 1st. Having said that, I still think it's unfair that the 1 seed would ever have to play a tougher team than the 2 seed. That just makes no sense from a competitive point of view.

I think the 1 vs 3, 2 vs 4 works well in tennis, not so well for baseball.

Mattymo · 05-02-2006, 06:25 PM

I like how the NFL playoffs work, where the top 2 teams get bye's. It allows more teams to make the playoffs, but also gives a true reward for winning games.

Cras · 05-02-2006, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattymo

I like how the NFL playoffs work, where the top 2 teams get bye's. It allows more teams to make the playoffs, but also gives a true reward for winning games.

I am not sure byes would work well in baseball. The best teams would sit while everyone plays and I think they would then get rusty.

theobscure · 05-02-2006, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cras

I am not sure byes would work well in baseball. The best teams would sit while everyone plays and I think they would then get rusty.

I agree. That kind of a layoff would most often be a disadvantage in baseball.

Caporegime · 05-02-2006, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

Markus knowing about how important a feature is does not necessarily equal Markus implementing it, but let's hope he has finally realized how much this feature is needed and how many versions it is overdue.

True, but I would argue that while it would have been nice to have this feature in previous (single-universe) versions, it wasn't vital. However, now that we have the ability to sim countless leagues simultaneously, it is absolutely essential. Not to sound overly-dramatic, but this is a major oversight on the part of Markus.

Cras · 05-02-2006, 07:54 PM

Caporegime gets it.

cdheer · 05-02-2006, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorilla Shakespeare

Not to mention the point that your fans won't come out to see you play if they think you're not playing to the best of your ability.

See Field, Wrigley.

--chris

05-02-2006, 03:28 PM	#109
disposableheros Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 4,332	i cant imagine a team tanking games to get the 2nd spot instead of the first (or 4th over 3rd). you have no control over what happens to the other teams, so there's no way to guarantee it will happen like you want it to. that would be a pretty big risk, with very little reward. edit: added missing word __________________ 2 Wild Cards, 11 Division Champs, 4 League Champs, 3 World Champs, and 3 Best GM awards Baseball Maelstrom - New York Mets - 180-149 .547 Corporate League Baseball - Coke Buzz - 889-649 .578 Western Hemisphere Baseball League - Santiago Saints - 672-793 .459 Record - 2428-2271 .517 Last edited by disposableheros; 05-02-2006 at 03:55 PM.

05-02-2006, 07:54 PM	#119
Cras Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: LEO Posts: 3,789	Caporegime gets it. __________________ The Chicago White Sox 1906, 1917, 2005 World Series Champions 1900, 1901, 1906, 1917, 1919, 1959, 2005 American League Champions 2000, 2005, 2008 American League Central Division Champions 1983, 1993 American League West Division Champions OOTP \| Orbiter \| SSMS \| FSX \| LoL \| MLP:FIM!

05-01-2006, 04:56 PM	#102
Mad Jackal Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 59	I believe leagues in Europe use a format similar to this to seed 1vs5 2vs6 3vs7 4vs8 as it them makes each playoff game closer and more exciting. Wheras the US is traditionaly set to try to match the top seeds in the final bracket. 1 vs 8 then winner of that vs winner of 4/5. 2 vs 7 with winner playing winner of 3/6 etc. In only a 4 team playoff I can see this 1 vs 3 and 2 vs 4 helping to ensure that the no 2 seed makes it to face number 1 in the final. But frankly, if you need to face a weaker team to get to the finals I don't think you belong there....That going for both the 1st seed and 2nd seed.

05-02-2006, 03:46 PM	#112
Gorilla Shakespeare Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 405	Not to mention the point that your fans won't come out to see you play if they think you're not playing to the best of your ability.

05-02-2006, 06:25 PM	#115
Mattymo All Star Starter Join Date: May 2002 Location: Colchester, CT Posts: 1,448	I like how the NFL playoffs work, where the top 2 teams get bye's. It allows more teams to make the playoffs, but also gives a true reward for winning games.