Left Handed 2B,SS,3B

[Left-handed Badger]

I'm a lefty, and I could not see how a person could play 2B left-handed. You just couldnt turn a DP. Granted at high school level you dont turn double plays. SO it could be gotten away with there. I did see a left-handed SS once but that looked awkward. I do have to admit he had learned to adjust to the liabilities. By playing at a certain position and such. He was also that team's 2nd best pitcher. And was later turned into a P-1B-LF. I was a P-OF myself. Played some 1B didnt like it so much. I think the lefty C could work though. Really no way it wouldnt. Just dont put me back there.

[Malleus Dei]

Much of what has been posted here is hooey.

I know this because (1) I'm ambidextrous, and (2) I was an infielder.

You don't see left-handed-fielding 2B/SS/3B in the majors because throwing left-handed to first just doesn't flipping work, and you can't make it work. And, believe me, I tried hard to make it work. And no one else can make it work at 2B/SS/3B, either.

Take second base. The last left-handed-fielder to play more than just a few games at second in a season in the MLB was Hal Chase, and that was clear back before we got into World War I. The last left-handed-fielder to play second base at all in the MLB, to my knowledge, was Don Mattingly, and that was just for like a game or two. No one does it, not because left-handed fielders aren't available, and not because they are made into pitchers (more hooey), but simply with the throws you have to make and the angles involved it just doesn't work. Been there, tried that, talked it out with the coaches. never did it in a game.

I made a decent non-pro career out of being a third baseman who batted left but fielded right, which is the preferred infield handedness combination; Hank Blalock of the Texas Rangers and Russell Branyan of the Brewers are the exact same thing. You get a left-handed bat in the lineup at 2B/SS/3B, and that's a big bonus.

As to the nonsense about guys who threw left with strong arms being instantly made into pitchers, that never happened. I got put at third base right off the bat because I was the guy with the strongest arm (I'm a big tall guy and always have been) who could make the throw from third to to first consistently and who had the reflexes to play third. No one ever even discussed making me (or any other capable left-handed-thrower) into a pitcher, even though I showed them that I could throw just as well and as strong left-handed as I could right-handed. I never once saw that issue raised with any other decent-hitting left-handed-fielder, ever; they just all played outfield, or, if they had power, first base. Pitchers were pitchers, not converted 2B/SS/3B.

Joe Morgan put it best: "You will not see a left-handed second baseman in major league baseball." And the same goes for left-handed-fielding SS and 3B, too.

So just how does this relate to the game?

Simple. Every 2B, SS, and 3B should *automatically* be set by OOTP2006 to be right-handed fielders immediately upon generation. No question about it.

[Malleus Dei]

Originally Posted by Left-handed Badger

I'm a lefty, and I could not see how a person could play 2B left-handed. You just couldnt turn a DP. Granted at high school level you dont turn double plays.

Since when? We turned a ton of DP's in high school. Heck, the guys I played with and I turned DP's well before we ever *got* into high school. I can clearly remember starting a 5-4-3 when I was still in middle school, because the guy we threw out at first went nuts when he was called out.

[DrArbiter]

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

Joe Morgan put it best: "You will not see a left-handed second baseman in major league baseball." And the same goes for left-handed-fielding SS and 3B, too.

I have also seen Mike Squires, the last lefty to play any significant amount at 3B (in 1984), insist that second base was the one position he was convinced a lefty absolutely couldn't play at a high level, in particular because turning the DP would be essentially impossible.

[rocknfire7]

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

Much of what has been posted here is hooey.

I know this because (1) I'm ambidextrous, and (2) I was an infielder.

You don't see left-handed-fielding 2B/SS/3B in the majors because throwing left-handed to first just doesn't flipping work, and you can't make it work. And, believe me, I tried hard to make it work. And no one else can make it work at 2B/SS/3B, either.

Take second base. The last left-handed-fielder to play more than just a few games at second in a season in the MLB was Hal Chase, and that was clear back before we got into World War I. The last left-handed-fielder to play second base at all in the MLB, to my knowledge, was Don Mattingly, and that was just for like a game or two. No one does it, not because left-handed fielders aren't available, and not because they are made into pitchers (more hooey), but simply with the throws you have to make and the angles involved it just doesn't work. Been there, tried that, talked it out with the coaches. never did it in a game.

I made a decent non-pro career out of being a third baseman who batted left but fielded right, which is the preferred infield handedness combination; Hank Blalock of the Texas Rangers and Russell Branyan of the Brewers are the exact same thing. You get a left-handed bat in the lineup at 2B/SS/3B, and that's a big bonus.

As to the nonsense about guys who threw left with strong arms being instantly made into pitchers, that never happened. I got put at third base right off the bat because I was the guy with the strongest arm (I'm a big tall guy and always have been) who could make the throw from third to to first consistently and who had the reflexes to play third. No one ever even discussed making me (or any other capable left-handed-thrower) into a pitcher, even though I showed them that I could throw just as well and as strong left-handed as I could right-handed. I never once saw that issue raised with any other decent-hitting left-handed-fielder, ever; they just all played outfield, or, if they had power, first base. Pitchers were pitchers, not converted 2B/SS/3B.

Joe Morgan put it best: "You will not see a left-handed second baseman in major league baseball." And the same goes for left-handed-fielding SS and 3B, too.

So just how does this relate to the game?

Simple. Every 2B, SS, and 3B should *automatically* be set by OOTP2006 to be right-handed fielders immediately upon generation. No question about it.

I couldn't have said it better myself MAL

[rocknfire7]

Originally Posted by Left-handed Badger

I'm a lefty, and I could not see how a person could play 2B left-handed. You just couldnt turn a DP. Granted at high school level you dont turn double plays. SO it could be gotten away with there. I did see a left-handed SS once but that looked awkward. I do have to admit he had learned to adjust to the liabilities. By playing at a certain position and such. He was also that team's 2nd best pitcher. And was later turned into a P-1B-LF. I was a P-OF myself. Played some 1B didnt like it so much. I think the lefty C could work though. Really no way it wouldnt. Just dont put me back there.

I see high school dp's ALL THE TIME! In fact as a high school and college pitcher I saw ooodles of them get me an easy 10 pitch inning!

[rocknfire7]

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

Much of what has been posted here is hooey.

So just how does this relate to the game?

Simple. Every 2B, SS, and 3B should *automatically* be set by OOTP2006 to be right-handed fielders immediately upon generation. No question about it.

The game won't be credible if it has ANY lef-handed 2b/ss/3b.
Unless of course you are doing a little league league or one with space aliens with multiple tentacles or something.

And by the way it's not predujice just common sense and a knowledge of the game and how it works!

[CBL-Commish]

Originally Posted by rocknfire7

The game won't be credible if it has ANY lef-handed 2b/ss/3b.
Unless of course you are doing a little league league or one with space aliens with multiple tentacles or something.

And by the way it's not predujice just common sense and a knowledge of the game and how it works!

Simulating today, sure. If you're simulating pre-1900 ball it won't be credible if it doesn't have left-handed 2b/ss/3b. Up until the 1890s such players, while not common, did play in the majors fairly often. Bill Hulen was the last regular left-handed shortstop. Willie Keeler began his major league career as a left-handed infielder. Several players in the pre-glove era were essentially ambedextrous and would throw from whichever hand was more convienent. Jerry Denny was one of those players.

[Malleus Dei]

I didn't know that anyone played leagues set before 1900.

[rocknfire7]

Originally Posted by CBL-Commish

Simulating today, sure. If you're simulating pre-1900 ball it won't be credible if it doesn't have left-handed 2b/ss/3b. Up until the 1890s such players, while not common, did play in the majors fairly often. Bill Hulen was the last regular left-handed shortstop. Willie Keeler began his major league career as a left-handed infielder. Several players in the pre-glove era were essentially ambedextrous and would throw from whichever hand was more convienent. Jerry Denny was one of those players.

Your right. I was using an extreme example. A lot of players also played infield positions like ss/2b, pitched and caught, etc. An example would be King Kelly, who also liked to slide as well.
The vast majority of OOTP gamers replay/create seasons after the 19th century though.( maybe all of them?)

[sean-patin]

Actually, last year (currently a senior) playing 2B... i started a TRIPLE PLAY... it was probably the sweetest thing i have done in my baseball career... maybe even better than being named to the All-Conference Team... there were runners on 1st and 2nd... the kid hit a low line-drive and it hit the ground right in front of my glove and i fielded it and turned the 4-6-3 DP, but the kid who was on 2nd thought that I had caught the ball and that it didn't bounce and so he thought that i got the force out on him (after a catch) when i went to 2nd with the ball, so he kinda starts jogging towards 3rd to head back to the dugout and our first baseman throws to our 3rd baseman to tag him for the 3rd out... it was GREAT!

[sean-patin]

^^^^^^^^^^^^

more commonly referred to as the "4-6-3-5 Triple Play"

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei
Much of what has been posted here is hooey.

So just how does this relate to the game?

Simple. Every 2B, SS, and 3B should *automatically* be set by OOTP2006 to be right-handed fielders immediately upon generation. No question about it.

Originally Posted by rocknfire7

The game won't be credible if it has ANY lef-handed 2b/ss/3b.
Unless of course you are doing a little league league or one with space aliens with multiple tentacles or something.

And by the way it's not predujice just common sense and a knowledge of the game and how it works!

Hey, no fair. You guys are using common sense and arguments based on the real world. Keep doing things like that and this thread will die

By the way I agree with every thing in both your posts.

[disposableheros]

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

I didn't know that anyone played leagues set before 1900.

its a small following oboviously, but there are some out there.

[mbd]

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

The fact of the matter is it takes what, 1 second more, if that?

There may be places where managers haven't caught up to the full SABR research -- like relief pitcher usage. But lefty infielders isn't one of them.

Do you know how many more hits there would be if every throw from an infielder to first took one more second? A lot! I bet the league batting average would top .300 if not .350. It would be absurd. Even if it's not a full second, it's a huge disadvantage.

[CBL-Commish]

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

I didn't know that anyone played leagues set before 1900.

Are you serious? Do a search. Lots of people have such leagues, and there are many, many threads devoted to work arounds and schemes to use Lahman for pre-1900 leagues. For a long time one of the oft-repeated future version suggestions is for better importing of 1800s teams and leagues. I know Eckstein4Pres and others have set up ways to import real rookies for pre-1900 leagues.

[Twelvefield]

Congratulations on your AMAZING TRIPLE PLAY, Sean! I've only seen one once in real-life, in the stands, with my face in a beer, so it happened and I didn't fully realize it. It would be awesome to be in one (as the instigator, and not the recipient, though).

Johnny Bench has an interesting quote regarding lefty catchers, and it took me a while to find it:

"There've been only about three or four left-handed catchers in baseball history. Dale Long and Mike Squires were lefty catchers I remember -- they were mainly first-basemen, but they could catch in a pinch. I guess most hitters were right-handed, and a lefty catcher couldn't throw easily over the batter. But I don't know why a left-handed cathcer couldn't do the job. Tag plays at home plate would be a little more difficult -- it would be tough to make a sweep tag -- but if you're a good enough athelete, it shouldn't matter what position you play" -- Johnny Bench

Thing is, apart from prejudice against lefties, I'm not sure that left-handed cathcer's equipment is easily available. I'm sure you could get it in the big leagues, or have it custom-made, but for amateur or occasional ballplayers, it must be tough finding gloves and the like.

[canadiancreed]

Originally Posted by disposableheros

its a small following oboviously, but there are some out there.

indeed. Pro Curcuit, Eck's dynasty, and the APBL are three. If I ever get to baseball I'll be starting in that era as well

[Left-handed Badger]

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

Since when? We turned a ton of DP's in high school. Heck, the guys I played with and I turned DP's well before we ever *got* into high school. I can clearly remember starting a 5-4-3 when I was still in middle school, because the guy we threw out at first went nuts when he was called out.

I guess it happens at other places but it never happened at my high school. We did have a perpetually horrible IF defense when I was there, though. The only 5-4-3 DP that I saw, period, was when one of our batters tripped over his own feet getting out of the box. Then again i played at a small rural school where you were lucky to get 12-15 guys to come out much less good ones.

[Left-handed Badger]

It is hard enough finding a left-handed 1b mitt much less a catchers. I was lucky that one of the coaches was a former lefty 1b or I would have had to go with my regular glove.

Actually for lefty catchers there was a jack Clements who caught 1000+ games pre-1900. I do remember seeing a Pirates vs Cubs (or braves I forget) where Benny Distefano caught a couple innings in extra inning game.