2006 Oakland A's Thread

[darkhorse]

Originally Posted by Bobbuttons

Yeah, clubhouse cancers never do.

The A's won three straight titles with a team with terminal cancer.

[JDOldSchool]

Originally Posted by darkhorse

The A's won three straight titles with a team with terminal cancer.

But last year's White Sox loved each other!

[Bobbuttons]

Originally Posted by JDOldSchool

But last year's White Sox loved each other!

Hope they love being 1-4.

[blgoblue2]

Originally Posted by JDOldSchool

But last year's White Sox loved each other!

Give AJ another year.

[Skipaway]

At least Jim Tracy didn't seem to mind having Bradley in his clubhouse, or he wouldn't want the Pirates to get Bradley.

[Caporegime]

Originally Posted by Skipaway

At least Jim Tracy didn't seem to mind having Bradley in his clubhouse, or he wouldn't want the Pirates to get Bradley.

Skippy, at this point I don't think that Tracy would object to having David Berkowitz on the roster if he thought he could help the club. The Buckos are not the Yankees. They can't cherry pick the league for the "right" players. Bradley is troubled but talented, and he could definitely help the Pirates achieve semi-respectability….at least while he’s out on bail.

[JDOldSchool]

Originally Posted by blgoblue2

Give AJ another year.

Aside from Brett Tomko, AJ's never had a problem with his own team. The Twins players all loved him. It's players on every other team who don't like him.

[Green & Gold Heart]

B-Cro is back! And struggling Dan Johnson rightfully slides down to #9. I'm assuming no Swish today because of Moyer.

Kotsay CF
Scutaro 2B
Crosby SS
Chavez 3B
Thomas DH
Bradley RF
Payton LF
Kendall C
Johnson 1B

And will the real Barry Zito please stand up tonight?

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by Caporegime

Skippy, at this point I don't think that Tracy would object to having David Berkowitz on the roster if he thought he could help the club. The Buckos are not the Yankees. They can't cherry pick the league for the "right" players. Bradley is troubled but talented, and he could definitely help the Pirates achieve semi-respectability….at least while he’s out on bail.

I don't understand your point. Are you trying to say club cancers are less harmful on worse teams or something? And Bradley could definitely help the Pirates, but not some teams like the A's or the Dodgers?

Actually, there were lots of press about how Bradley becomes a good teammate early last season when the Dodgers were doing well. I would say club cancer is more or less yet another cliche created by baseball people to make excuses.

[Faroo6]

Originally Posted by Green & Gold Heart

B-Cro is back! And struggling Dan Johnson rightfully slides down to #9. I'm assuming no Swish today because of Moyer.

Kotsay CF
Scutaro 2B
Crosby SS
Chavez 3B
Thomas DH
Bradley RF
Payton LF
Kendall C
Johnson 1B

And will the real Barry Zito please stand up tonight?

You would think he would have started the switch hitter against Moyer instead of the lefty unless Swish has horrible numbers against him. Scooty played Ellis right out of the lineup.

[Caporegime]

Originally Posted by Skipaway

I don't understand your point. Are you trying to say club cancers are less harmful on worse teams or something? And Bradley could definitely help the Pirates, but not some teams like the A's or the Dodgers?

Skippy, I was addressing your point about how Jim Tracy would like to have Milty on his current club, and that as the manager of the Pirates, a club with limited resources at its disposal, he'd readily overlook any added baggage that he'd bring because the Pirates need all the help they can get.

If he were managing the Yankees, I doubt if he'd express any interest in Bradley. Remember, the Yankees had a keen interest in Milty before they signed Damon, and could have acquired him for much less than they paid for Damon. However, the combination of his history and the vituperative nature of the NY press convinced them to look elsewhere.

Originally Posted by Skipaway

Actually, there were lots of press about how Bradley becomes a good teammate early last season when the Dodgers were doing well. I would say club cancer is more or less yet another cliche created by baseball people to make excuses.

Perhaps you missed Bradley going absolutely ballistic on the field last year? Was that an invention of the press, or a window into a much deeper and factually troublesome pathology? As you may also recall, Bradley physically attacked an ump when he was still a minor leaguer in the Expo organization, so it's not as if that were an isolated incident.

[JDOldSchool]

Originally Posted by Caporegime

Perhaps you missed Bradley going absolutely ballistic on the field last year? Was that an invention of the press, or a window into a much deeper and factually troublesome pathology? As you may also recall, Bradley physically attacked an ump when he was still a minor leaguer in the Expo organization, so it's not as if that were an isolated incident.

Milton Bradley goes off on the field and he's a clubhouse cancer. Paul O'Neill destroys jug of gatorade and he's intense.

The only time the "clubhouse cancer" idea actually makes sense is when the player is doing something that costs the team games. Getting suspended for his behavior costs games, so in that sense Bradley can hurt a team. But to say he's disruptive or something makes no sense. If Bradley gets mad is Nick Swisher going to not hit the ball? Will Bobby Crosby stop fielding the ball? Huston Street not gonna pitch the ball? A guy being a jackass really doesn't matter most of the time.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by Caporegime

Skippy, I was addressing your point about how Jim Tracy would like to have Milty on his current club, and that as the manager of the Pirates, a club with limited resources at its disposal, he'd readily overlook any added baggage that he'd bring because the Pirates need all the help they can get.

But that doesn't even make a valid argument. What's so special about Pirates that Bradley can be a positive contributor but not not elsewhere? What's so special about his baggage that makes the Pirates, as a sucky club, would be more willing to take?

There are players with the baggage of not being able to field well, not being able to take a walk, not being able to hit for power, or being not able to run well. You don't see better clubs actively avoiding them. What's so special about this club cancer baggage that it makes more sense for sucky clubs?

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by JDOldSchool

Milton Bradley goes off on the field and he's a clubhouse cancer. Paul O'Neill destroys jug of gatorade and he's intense.

Well, and I don't see the link between what people would label clubhouse cancer and going off on the field. There are other bad names for those kind of thing, but not clubhouse cancer.

[Caporegime]

Originally Posted by Skipaway

But that doesn't even make a valid argument. What's so special about Pirates that Bradley can be a positive contributor but not not elsewhere? What's so special about his baggage that makes the Pirates, as a sucky club, would be more willing to take?

There are players with the baggage of not being able to field well, not being able to take a walk, not being able to hit for power, or being not able to run well. You don't see better clubs actively avoiding them. What's so special about this club cancer baggage that it makes more sense for sucky clubs?

Yes, I think it is a valid argument. The Pirates, again, are not really in a position where they pick & choose between having the "best" player, and having the "Best, perfect fit" player, like the Yankees.

Ergo, if Bradley could help the Pirates, they're more apt to overlook his history and hope that he'd fit in and not cause problems than a club with limitless resources that can merely purchase/trade for a player that they know won't rock the proverbial boat.

Is that a little clearer?

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by Caporegime

Yes, I think it is a valid argument. The Pirates, again, are not really in a position where they pick & choose between having the "best" player, and having the "Best, perfect fit" player, like the Yankees.

Ergo, if Bradley could help the Pirates, they're more apt to overlook his history and hope that he'd fit in and not cause problems than a club with limitless resources that can merely purchase/trade for a player that they know won't rock the proverbial boat.

Is that a little clearer?

Not yet. Are you trying to say Bradley is not less valuable, but his value is more volatile? His value is less predictable?

[JDOldSchool]

Bradley's value drops when he gets thrown out trying to steal second to end the inning. Stop running so much, Milton.

[Caporegime]

Originally Posted by Skipaway

Not yet. Are you trying to say Bradley is not less valuable, but his value is more volatile? His value is less predictable?

Let me try this approach: His history of volatility makes him (potentially) less valuable to certain clubs. He'd be wearing pinstripes right now if that were not so.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by Caporegime

Let me try this approach: His history of volatility makes him (potentially) less valuable to certain clubs. He'd be wearing pinstripes right now if that were not so.

Nah, he'd be a Yankee now if Damon didn't sign with the Yankees.

Now, can you demonstrate this volatility? Has this been demonstrated by his stats? His teammates' stats? Or any shape or form that contributes to a team's record?

[Caporegime]

Originally Posted by Skipaway

Nah, he'd be a Yankee now if Damon didn't sign with the Yankees.

No. Again, before the Yanks signed Damon, they were assuredly interested in Milty. Damon's initial asking price was too high even for the Yanks...at least for the number of years he initially wanted, so they were pursuing alternatives. The Bradley rumors ran hot & heavy during this period, along with the Aaron Rowand rumors (before the Phils landed him).

The Bradley alternative was dismissed not long after the rumors of the Yanks' interest in him surfaced. This came right out of King George's throne room down in Tampa, at least according to the local media here.

Originally Posted by Skipaway

Now, can you demonstrate this volatility? Has this been demonstrated by his stats? His teammates' stats? Or any shape or form that contributes to a team's record?

When he goes supernova, as he did last summer in LA, that inevitably results in a multi-game suspension, leaving his club to play a lesser player in his stead. That's how his temper tantrums have hurt his clubs in the past.

Anything else?