Willard-Moran

Cap · 03-26-2006, 11:03 AM

Check out http://www.antekprizering.com for a terrific write-up on the generally ignored Jess Willard-Frank Moran fight at MSG. Report says Jess broke a knuckle in his right hand in round two (had to have the glove cut off when it was over) but kept throwing rights at Moran's head right into the tenth and last round.

At the start of the show, the champ, who stood 6' 6" and likely weighed around 230, vaulted over the top rope into the ring. Can't imagine too many of today's big guys entering the ring that way.

Jim, take note of the round-by-round commentary.

Cap

Mr Big · 03-27-2006, 03:46 AM

7'0" 325 lb. WBA Champion Nicolay Valuev doesn't vault into the ring, but he does step over the top rope.

Cap · 03-27-2006, 09:43 AM

So did Primo Carnera. My point was that despite his size, Willard was agile enough to vault over the top rope. He wasn't the lumbering hulk he is usually portrayed as, and few, if any, of today's blubberweights could do it.

Cap

steamboat brand, palooka · 03-27-2006, 06:43 PM

I never saw the Willard-Moran fight film, but I DID see the Jack Johnson, Frank Moran fight film, from Rollie Pier, an old fight instructor from New London.
That fight was awful. All it was was Moran diving in to try to nail Johnson with one big shot, and Jack Johnson tying him up, each time, and swatting him, here and there. There were NO meaningful exchanges in the whole fight, but Moran never really hit Johnson, and Johnson hit Moran a few times. It probably had more clinches than I'd ever seen before. At the time I watched it, I didn't realize Georges Carpentier was the ref, or I would paid more attention to that.
One fascinating bit of antiqueness was the trainers fanning their towels on each fighter, all through the breaks between rounds. There were two guys out there fanning, for each guy.

Cap · 03-28-2006, 08:37 PM

Well, considering the fact that Moran never saw a cent of the money promised him, I don't think he cried too much over his performance. Makes me wonder when exactly he discovered the promoter's double-cross.

Cap

IceTea · 03-28-2006, 10:12 PM

I simmed the Moran/Johnson fight today and Moran won via DQ with 150 left in the 15th. Johnson was ahead by 2 points on 2 cards and 10 points on the other.

MJ

steamboat brand, palooka · 03-29-2006, 04:44 PM

Frank Moran over Johnson! Now, THAT is a strange one! It's funny, but Frank Moran is now thought of as a better heavyweight than fighters who beat him easily. Carl Morris, Jim Savage, Al Kubiak, etc, etc, etc. I guess probably because he was lucky enough to get not one but two title shots. If it had gone by who deserved it most, he never would have had one. He could take a punch pretty well, but against the top 20 heavyweights of the time, that "Mary Ann" right hander didn't put too many to sleep. One good heavyweight he DID nail was Jim Coffey, but that doesn't make sense; given the fighters that Coffey beat, but beat Moran, it should have been an easy decision for Coffey. They say Coffey took a dive in their first fight, and it makes sense to me. Jim Coffey was a better heavyweight. But he got KOed again, the next year.

Cap · 03-29-2006, 08:25 PM

Why Moran? Look at him. He's like the fighter from Central Casting. He looks the part. As for his beating Jim Coffey, who is this "They" that claim Coffey took a dive? I've never heard that one. Moran beat Coffey because he had just the right style to beat him, plain and simple. If they fought a hundred times Moran would knock him out every time.

In his prime, Moran beat his share of good ones. He lost to Jim Savage in 1911 on a tko when his chief second threw in the towel, and wasn't stopped again until 1918 when Big Fred Fulton pulled it off. Not bad, considering the guys he fought in between. Moran had battles outside the ring too with managers and the bottle.

Frank Moran was a good, not great, heavyweight. In his three biggest opportunities: against McCarty, Johnson and Willard, he showed he could take it, but paled against three of the best of his day. (Though if you watch the film, Jack Johnson doesn't seem all that anxious to mix it up with him either.) He was probably a shade better than someone like Scott Ledoux.

Cap

03-26-2006, 11:03 AM	#1
Cap Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Large Province in God's Country Posts: 8,012	Willard-Moran Check out http://www.antekprizering.com for a terrific write-up on the generally ignored Jess Willard-Frank Moran fight at MSG. Report says Jess broke a knuckle in his right hand in round two (had to have the glove cut off when it was over) but kept throwing rights at Moran's head right into the tenth and last round. At the start of the show, the champ, who stood 6' 6" and likely weighed around 230, vaulted over the top rope into the ring. Can't imagine too many of today's big guys entering the ring that way. Jim, take note of the round-by-round commentary. Cap __________________ "...There were Giants in Those Days.." Last edited by Cap; 03-26-2006 at 11:06 AM.

03-27-2006, 03:46 AM	#2
Mr Big All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,238	7'0" 325 lb. WBA Champion Nicolay Valuev doesn't vault into the ring, but he does step over the top rope. __________________ The M.O.B. Isaiah 54:17

03-27-2006, 09:43 AM	#3
Cap Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Large Province in God's Country Posts: 8,012	So did Primo Carnera. My point was that despite his size, Willard was agile enough to vault over the top rope. He wasn't the lumbering hulk he is usually portrayed as, and few, if any, of today's blubberweights could do it. Cap __________________ "...There were Giants in Those Days.."

03-27-2006, 06:43 PM	#4
steamboat brand, palooka Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 156	I never saw the Willard-Moran fight film, but I DID see the Jack Johnson, Frank Moran fight film, from Rollie Pier, an old fight instructor from New London. That fight was awful. All it was was Moran diving in to try to nail Johnson with one big shot, and Jack Johnson tying him up, each time, and swatting him, here and there. There were NO meaningful exchanges in the whole fight, but Moran never really hit Johnson, and Johnson hit Moran a few times. It probably had more clinches than I'd ever seen before. At the time I watched it, I didn't realize Georges Carpentier was the ref, or I would paid more attention to that. One fascinating bit of antiqueness was the trainers fanning their towels on each fighter, all through the breaks between rounds. There were two guys out there fanning, for each guy. __________________ Needed: Sailor White + Andy Morris' height. Photos needed: Jeff Madden, Fred Bradley, Ray Sim(m?)ons, Jumbo Wells, Bob Williams, Kid Kenneth. Plus, the DEFINITIVE Tim Logan photo.

03-28-2006, 08:37 PM	#5
Cap Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Large Province in God's Country Posts: 8,012	Well, considering the fact that Moran never saw a cent of the money promised him, I don't think he cried too much over his performance. Makes me wonder when exactly he discovered the promoter's double-cross. Cap __________________ "...There were Giants in Those Days.."

03-28-2006, 10:12 PM	#6
IceTea Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Sherrill, NY Posts: 9,844	I simmed the Moran/Johnson fight today and Moran won via DQ with 150 left in the 15th. Johnson was ahead by 2 points on 2 cards and 10 points on the other. MJ __________________ Don't worry, be happy! Women's Boxing Cyber Boxing Zone Philadelphia Boxing Boxrec Ross Boxing https://boxingjones.com/

03-29-2006, 04:44 PM	#7
steamboat brand, palooka Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 156	Frank Moran over Johnson! Now, THAT is a strange one! It's funny, but Frank Moran is now thought of as a better heavyweight than fighters who beat him easily. Carl Morris, Jim Savage, Al Kubiak, etc, etc, etc. I guess probably because he was lucky enough to get not one but two title shots. If it had gone by who deserved it most, he never would have had one. He could take a punch pretty well, but against the top 20 heavyweights of the time, that "Mary Ann" right hander didn't put too many to sleep. One good heavyweight he DID nail was Jim Coffey, but that doesn't make sense; given the fighters that Coffey beat, but beat Moran, it should have been an easy decision for Coffey. They say Coffey took a dive in their first fight, and it makes sense to me. Jim Coffey was a better heavyweight. But he got KOed again, the next year. __________________ Needed: Sailor White + Andy Morris' height. Photos needed: Jeff Madden, Fred Bradley, Ray Sim(m?)ons, Jumbo Wells, Bob Williams, Kid Kenneth. Plus, the DEFINITIVE Tim Logan photo.

03-29-2006, 08:25 PM	#8
Cap Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Large Province in God's Country Posts: 8,012	Why Moran? Look at him. He's like the fighter from Central Casting. He looks the part. As for his beating Jim Coffey, who is this "They" that claim Coffey took a dive? I've never heard that one. Moran beat Coffey because he had just the right style to beat him, plain and simple. If they fought a hundred times Moran would knock him out every time. In his prime, Moran beat his share of good ones. He lost to Jim Savage in 1911 on a tko when his chief second threw in the towel, and wasn't stopped again until 1918 when Big Fred Fulton pulled it off. Not bad, considering the guys he fought in between. Moran had battles outside the ring too with managers and the bottle. Frank Moran was a good, not great, heavyweight. In his three biggest opportunities: against McCarty, Johnson and Willard, he showed he could take it, but paled against three of the best of his day. (Though if you watch the film, Jack Johnson doesn't seem all that anxious to mix it up with him either.) He was probably a shade better than someone like Scott Ledoux. Cap __________________ "...There were Giants in Those Days.." Last edited by Cap; 03-29-2006 at 08:28 PM.