Color-Correct Fighter Graphics

[Jim Trunzo]

Gentlemen,

I'll probably catch hell for saying this but I don't really care and I believe that it's important to let all of you know that your request don't fall on deaf ears!

We have currently put a program and the game skins in the hands of a graphics acquaintance to see about the feasibility to quickly but competently come up with all combinations of fighter "skin colors" (i.e. white vs white, black vs. black, white vs. black, hispanic vs. black, etc.).

We are awaiting feedback (which should come in several weeks) and if possible, that feature will be the next big implementation to go into the game.

Considering the paucity of graphics, it would be nice (and all of us agree completely on this) if at least the fighters mirrored the men opposing one another. While it is obvious that the fight graphics are meant to be more metaphorical than accurate representations, it is disconcerting to see Ali vs Frazier as a black vs a white.

Sooner or later this will be address; however, our hope is that we can do it soon.

[CONN CHRIS]

Is there any talk of just moving to a 2D overhead view that tracked ring movement Jim? The graphics would be simpler and in my opinion more meaningful.

[hamed]

Thanks for the info Jim, great to see you back on here!

[Jim_Kidd]

It's great to see the graphic issue being addressed. I, too, liked the idea of having a "Ring Position" graphic showing the positioning of the fighters in the ring. I guess the other option would be the side view - which I wouldn't complain about either. Anything to show the black, white, hispanic, oriental and/or other race details of the fighters in the ring would be a welcomed improvement.

[Tosti]

Originally Posted by hamed

Thanks for the info Jim, great to see you back on here!

My thoughts exactly.

[meade95]

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

Is there any talk of just moving to a 2D overhead view that tracked ring movement Jim? The graphics would be simpler and in my opinion more meaningful.

Agree completely! -

The overhead view that was implemented way back in TF-99 (I think it was) was the best version the Trunzo's boxing sim has had -

I cannot for the life of me understand why this was changed (nor have I ever recieved a comment from Jim regarding this issue....which is odd because he typically answers every question I have ever emailed him and more??).

But the old version showing the fighters from the "overhead view" was perfect! - It allowed you to see the "flow of the fight"....showed movement around the whole ring....showed knockdowns....and best of all...it also had the "correct color" fighters in it -

Which takes care of this problem completely.

[mh2365]

Just glad to see Jim on the board .... I support new graphics because I believe it would help sell the product ... personnally I almost never look at the graphics anyway.

[meade95]

Originally Posted by mh2365

Just glad to see Jim on the board .... I support new graphics because I believe it would help sell the product ... personnally I almost never look at the graphics anyway.

Likewise for me...I don't look at the graphics much during the fight with TBCB either.....However when it was TF-99.......one very well could watch the graphics (overhead view of the fighters moving around the ring) and get an idea of how the fight was going.....who was pressing the action...etc, etc.

[mh2365]

Originally Posted by meade95

Likewise for me...I don't look at the graphics much during the fight with TBCB either.....However when it was TF-99.......one very well could watch the graphics (overhead view of the fighters moving around the ring) and get an idea of how the fight was going.....who was pressing the action...etc, etc.

That might be interesting ... my problem is I fast sim the fights I watch so it seems to do weird things to the graphics anyways.

[Mudster]

I fast sim also, so the overhead view wouldn't look quite right for me either. It's probably possible to have it set to where the user could use an option of picking which view they wanted to watch from, but I really don't know what amount of work the programmers would have to do for something like that, nor would it matter for me anyways. The color of the represented fighters would be a nice addition, but there are several fighters that I'm sure no one would know the race of...

[David Myers]

Originally Posted by Jim Trunzo

I'll probably catch hell for saying this but I don't really care . . . . We have currently put a program and the game skins in the hands of a graphics acquaintance to see about the feasibility to quickly but competently come up with all combinations of fighter "skin colors" (i.e. white vs white, black vs. black, white vs. black, hispanic vs. black, etc.). . . .

A neat way to forestall criticism, but since I am a vocal supporter of the game, perhaps I can give a little of the hell that Jim has yet to catch.

What Jim proposes above is a waste of resources that could be better spent on improving game play as it affects results.

It is superficial and stupid to identify fighters by "skin color" when other personal features are far more distinctive, subtle, and relevant. A fight in the thirties or forties between an Italian-American Catholic and a Jew would be displayed on the TBCB2 screen as a bout between two "whites," but the crowd would have greeted it with somewhat different emotions. The April 1985 fight between Marvin Hagler and Thomas Hearns will be displayed as a bout between "blacks," but that's not likely to strike most viewers as the most obvious thing about two men with such different body types.

Fortunately, like some other gamers, I "fast-sim" most of my bouts and won't be assaulted by the simple-minded racism of the planned graphics.

My proposal: make one fighter bright red and the other bright blue. That will differentiate them clearly enough.

[IceTea]

My proposal: make one fighter bright red and the other bright blue. That will differentiate them clearly enough.

Great idea....as long as the Rockem Sockem Robot crowd doesn't mind.

[mh2365]

Originally Posted by IceTea

Great idea....as long as the Rockem Sockem Robot crowd doesn't mind.

Best boxing game ever!

[David Myers]

Originally Posted by IceTea

My proposal: make one fighter bright red and the other bright blue. That will differentiate them clearly enough.

Great idea....as long as the Rockem Sockem Robot crowd doesn't mind.

Ha!

[Mudster]

I'm not trying to start a war here by any means, but the issue of race has a big part in the history of boxing. There have always been "Great White Hopes", even after the era. Even in today's world, the commentary during the Klitschko-Sanders fight stated that this was the first heavyweight title fight between two white fighters in X amount of years. This is an addition that I, personally, could care less if it came about or not, but I definately would add it into my game if it were available just for quick visualization candy. I feel it was very insulting to Jim Trunzo, or the people that have been hounding him for these graphic additions, by labeling them "simple minded racists".

[CONN CHRIS]

Originally Posted by David Myers

A neat way to forestall criticism, but since I am a vocal supporter of the game, perhaps I can give a little of the hell that Jim has yet to catch.

What Jim proposes above is a waste of resources that could be better spent on improving game play as it affects results.

It is superficial and stupid to identify fighters by "skin color" when other personal features are far more distinctive, subtle, and relevant. A fight in the thirties or forties between an Italian-American Catholic and a Jew would be displayed on the TBCB2 screen as a bout between two "whites," but the crowd would have greeted it with somewhat different emotions. The April 1985 fight between Marvin Hagler and Thomas Hearns will be displayed as a bout between "blacks," but that's not likely to strike most viewers as the most obvious thing about two men with such different body types.

Fortunately, like some other gamers, I "fast-sim" most of my bouts and won't be assaulted by the simple-minded racism of the planned graphics.

My proposal: make one fighter bright red and the other bright blue. That will differentiate them clearly enough.

I still prefer the 2D overhead view. Aside from David's critique - imagine the can of worms this will open.

What does one do with a Native American, an Asian Indian, A Fijian? Every fighter will not neatly fit into black/white/Hispanic/Asian categories and then the game is opened to pointless criticism over a feature that adds little to the game play. The potential PR / PC nightmare hardly seems worth the effort.

Red and Blue (corner) 2D overhead views are the way to go in my humble opinion.

[David Myers]

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

[T]he game is opened to pointless criticism over a feature that adds little to the game play. . . .

Very well said--much better than my way of saying much the same thing.

Dunno about Chris's overhead proposal. I am agnostic. Despite my lame joke about bright blue and bright red fighters, I kinda like the current white and black fighters. Reminds me of chess. Especially since the colors are assigned to the corners and not to the fighters.

But then, the fewer graphics the better. IMAO.

[David Myers]

Originally Posted by Mudster

I feel it was very insulting to Jim Trunzo, or the people that have been hounding him for these graphic additions, by labeling them "simple minded racists".

It would help if you could actually read. I spoke of the "simple-minded racism of the planned graphics," and said nothing whatever about Jim Trunzo, whom I happen to respect enormously.

[CONN CHRIS]

Originally Posted by David Myers

It would help if you could actually read. I spoke of the "simple-minded racism of the planned graphics," and said nothing whatever about Jim Trunzo, whom I happen to respect enormously.

That is precisely how I read your comment David (as intended). But this little exchange is exhibit A as to why this is a bad, bad idea.

[CONN CHRIS]

By way of disclosure, I once thought proper skin colors was a great idea. Having given it a tad bit of thought, I no longer do.