My Stance on "Aging"

Jim Trunzo · 02-15-2006, 09:17 AM

Gentlemen:

Officially, I supported the inclusion on "aging" and still do. Unofficially, I was against including it in TBCB2 because I felt that too much of the simulation was crossing the line into a role-playing type product.

My "official" support came about because people were attempting to do it anyhow and therefore we decided to give them a method to do it with much less trouble.

The jury is still out on the "aging" option; although the comments seem to be more positive than negative. However, the key here is that it is an "option"; meaning that you DO NOT have to use it if you don't like it.

I can never understand people complaining about a feature when it is optional. Suggestions on improving that option make sense; comments on how it works make sense; but moaning about it being there confuses me because it isn't detracting from anything else. Use it if you wish; don't use it if you would rather not.

meade95 · 02-15-2006, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Trunzo

Gentlemen:

However, the key here is that it is an "option"; meaning that you DO NOT have to use it if you don't like it.

I can never understand people complaining about a feature when it is optional. Suggestions on improving that option make sense; comments on how it works make sense; but moaning about it being there confuses me because it isn't detracting from anything else. Use it if you wish; don't use it if you would rather not.

Agree completely!

CONN CHRIS · 02-15-2006, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Trunzo

I can never understand people complaining about a feature when it is optional. Suggestions on improving that option make sense; comments on how it works make sense; but moaning about it being there confuses me because it isn't detracting from anything else. Use it if you wish; don't use it if you would rather not.

Well put Jim. (I love the aging feature by the way.)

Lee · 02-15-2006, 11:19 AM

Let me also say how much I love the aging feature as well and I too can not for the life of me understand why even bother to complain when it is optional. If you like it use it, if not don't..........pretty simple.

Jim_Kidd · 02-15-2006, 11:26 AM

I personally am not using the aging feature as of yet. In real life, fighters like Archie Moore age "abnormally" slow and have careers that seem to go on and on. Fighters like Bernard Hopkins is another example.

Basically, I move fighters in and out of my universe more according to record than age. Archie won't be past-prime until he's had over 300 fights!

mh2365 · 02-15-2006, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim_Kidd

I personally am not using the aging feature as of yet. In real life, fighters like Archie Moore age "abnormally" slow and have careers that seem to go on and on. Fighters like Bernard Hopkins is another example.

Basically, I move fighters in and out of my universe more according to record than age. Archie won't be past-prime until he's had over 300 fights!

Thanks for coming out of your cave Jim ... always love to hear your take on things. I am one of those who was 100% sure that the game would never include an aging method until TBRP and I was alright with it because I knew what the game was. Now that I have .... how did I ever go without it. Those that complain I agree without being too harsh ... I took enough out on some dope in another thread earlier.

Kidd - I agree that some fighters deserve a little more variance ... I'm micromanaging the move from post-prime to end and end to retired. Although I'm not doing it by any historical measurement, just how they have done in their last 10. If a post-prime fighter has won 6 of his last 10 (which is possible in my uni since they have a chance to fight TC's) then I reset him to post-prime and he gets another 10-20 fights. I do the same with the END guys, I kept it at 6 since they have a greater chance to fight TC's.

The reason I decided to do this was because of how many fighters you see hang on too long (like 98% of them) Most guys will have a record of 35-1 or 37-3, then lose 15 out of their last 20. I wanted that to happen in my uni. I have random retirements at the end of every year so guys do have the chance to retire with a great record still.

Oops, I meant to say I would suggest you use the aging routine but unclick the aging option on those you want to micromanage.

steamboat brand, palooka · 02-15-2006, 12:28 PM

Thanks Jim, for a wonderful boxing game. I still play the board game, but these computer guys may not allow me to continue! Boy, they get mad! I am sad about that. I play acoustic guitar. I don't need electricity all the time. I have played sports board games for several centuries, and "Title Bout" was one of the few that really holds up, upon closer inspection.
When I first got on this wonderful website, which has Cap, Conn Chris and other fantastic creatures, I mentioned an innovation for the board game, unaware that most had no idea what I was talking about. What I did was take 80 file cards, and I wrote the information for 5 RANDOM action cards across each card. Each of the five rows would have one of each action card, just like the single deck that comes with the game. In other words, picture purchasing 5 action decks, and then sticking at random one from each action deck, five across. Then shuffle the larger 80 boards. It took awhile to make them, but it saves so much time. I fight strictly ten rounders and twenty round championships with this method.

David Myers · 02-15-2006, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim_Kidd

I personally am not using the aging feature as of yet. In real life, fighters like Archie Moore age "abnormally" slow and have careers that seem to go on and on.

Did I miss something? Didn't the 2.0.25 public beta include, on the fighter screen, a checkable option to include the fighter in automatic aging?--just as you can choose whether to include him in autoscheduling. In the 2.0.27 public beta, this option seems to have disappeared.

Restoring it--allowing us to exempt some fighters from auto-aging--would answer Jim Kidd's objection above.

David Myers · 02-15-2006, 02:21 PM

Ignore the above post. When I loaded 2.0.27, automatic aging was turned off. I didn't realize the fact. Once I turned it back on, the checkable option showed up again on each fighter's page.

At all events, the option permits fighters like Archie Moore and Bernard Hopkins to be exempted from auto-aging. A great feature!

mh2365 · 02-15-2006, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steamboat brand, palooka

When I first got on this wonderful website, which has Cap, Conn Chris, mh2365 and other fantastic creatures, I mentioned an innovation for the board game, unaware that most had no idea what I was talking about.

Fixed that for you!! I used to always make more action cards also, to every board game I played. Just so I wouldn't have to shuffle as often and the cards wouldn't get as beat up. I still have SOM baseball and basketball that I break out with the kid every now and then. Up until 3 years ago (when I moved away from Colorado) I was still in a SOM baseball league. But unlike computer baseball games, TBCB took me completely away from the board game.

steamboat brand, palooka · 02-15-2006, 04:24 PM

Well, mh2365,
Now that you mention it, S-O-M baseball was the OTHER sports board game that seemed to hold up, other than Title Bout. It is extremely accurate statistically. I play their baseball board game, too. I like the IDEA of their hockey board game, as well, but it is way too flawed in comparison with the baseball game. No more free adverts for S-O-M here. I trashed one of the two SOM products I mentioned anyway.

killerpuncher · 02-15-2006, 07:00 PM

steamboat EHM is by far the best hockey game on the market period (and is an official partner of OOTP)

Jim I'm not complaining about the agining I would love to have fighters retire after 40-60 fights.

In TB1 this is what I did I have the auto scheduler go through all of my fighters in each division and did that 10 times the unbeaten fighters were then matched up in a tournament style fight to determine champions. In otherwords ALL of my 5500+ fighters have a minimum 10 fights. I don't want to have a mass retirement 30 fights later especially since I don't see any new fighters in every weight class (correct me if i am wrong people) cornerbout.com is where I got the mass fighters some way back when had corrupted data that showed up in the auto scheduling once i found out who those were I then set up my fights listed above.

mh2365 · 02-15-2006, 07:51 PM

As long as you have a wide range on the aging options you won't have that problem Killer. Are all your fighters prime? If they are make a 20 fight range on prime and post, then a 10 or 15 range on end.

So like 20-40 for prime
10-30 post
5-20 end

then you'll have an actual range of 35-90 for every fighter. That's a pretty wide range.

Also I have close to 10,000 fighters right now. my actual # is around 12,500 but that includes fictional TC's and duplicates which I weed out as they enter my uni.

killerpuncher · 02-15-2006, 11:17 PM

MH excellent yes they are all set to prime i'll do that that sound like a great option. Are there more areas other than cornerwork to get fighters? I would like to get real ones but don't mind fictional ones but I draw the line at tomato cans easpecially in teh non heavyweights I want then to win a few times at least. The heavyweights i want to give the lower ranked fighters some belt to claim (maybe an NABF or a real minor one like that). While most others will gun for the big ones.

mh2365 · 02-16-2006, 05:32 AM

Most of the fighters I believe are on cornerwork, I download them from this board, but I've been doing it for a couple of years now so the number has just grown.

Jim_Kidd · 02-16-2006, 10:53 AM

By the way, just in case we're all characters in someone else's "universe" without realizing it, I motion to have my own personal "auto-age" feature unchecked immediately. I woke up looking like hell this morning. I tried a different mirror a few hours later... not much improvement.

Cap · 02-16-2006, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim_Kidd

By the way, just in case we're all characters in someone else's "universe" without realizing it, I motion to have my own personal "auto-age" feature unchecked immediately. I woke up looking like hell this morning. I tried a different mirror a few hours later... not much improvement.

Wait'll you check that mirror tomorrow!

Once you pass 40 you should avoid looking in mirrors.

Cap

javier_83 · 02-17-2006, 04:09 PM

Thanis Jim, i am one of the others who loves this new option

Jim_Kidd · 02-18-2006, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cap

Wait'll you check that mirror tomorrow!

Once you pass 40 you should avoid looking in mirrors.

Cap

You're right. I used to spend time making sure there wasn't any toothpaste left on the corner of my mouth before leaving the house. Now I spend time thinking, "Hey, you don't look that bad! Do you?"

02-15-2006, 09:17 AM	#1
Jim Trunzo OOTP Developments Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Leechburg, PA Posts: 739	My Stance on "Aging" Gentlemen: Officially, I supported the inclusion on "aging" and still do. Unofficially, I was against including it in TBCB2 because I felt that too much of the simulation was crossing the line into a role-playing type product. My "official" support came about because people were attempting to do it anyhow and therefore we decided to give them a method to do it with much less trouble. The jury is still out on the "aging" option; although the comments seem to be more positive than negative. However, the key here is that it is an "option"; meaning that you DO NOT have to use it if you don't like it. I can never understand people complaining about a feature when it is optional. Suggestions on improving that option make sense; comments on how it works make sense; but moaning about it being there confuses me because it isn't detracting from anything else. Use it if you wish; don't use it if you would rather not.

02-15-2006, 12:28 PM	#7
steamboat brand, palooka Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 156	Thanks Jim, for a wonderful boxing game. I still play the board game, but these computer guys may not allow me to continue! Boy, they get mad! I am sad about that. I play acoustic guitar. I don't need electricity all the time. I have played sports board games for several centuries, and "Title Bout" was one of the few that really holds up, upon closer inspection. When I first got on this wonderful website, which has Cap, Conn Chris and other fantastic creatures, I mentioned an innovation for the board game, unaware that most had no idea what I was talking about. What I did was take 80 file cards, and I wrote the information for 5 RANDOM action cards across each card. Each of the five rows would have one of each action card, just like the single deck that comes with the game. In other words, picture purchasing 5 action decks, and then sticking at random one from each action deck, five across. Then shuffle the larger 80 boards. It took awhile to make them, but it saves so much time. I fight strictly ten rounders and twenty round championships with this method. Last edited by steamboat brand, palooka; 02-15-2006 at 12:30 PM.

02-15-2006, 02:21 PM	#9
David Myers All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Houston Posts: 693	Ignore the above post. When I loaded 2.0.27, automatic aging was turned off. I didn't realize the fact. Once I turned it back on, the checkable option showed up again on each fighter's page. At all events, the option permits fighters like Archie Moore and Bernard Hopkins to be exempted from auto-aging. A great feature! __________________ David Myers Houston, Texas

02-15-2006, 07:51 PM	#13
mh2365 Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: louisville Posts: 14,941 Infractions: 0/2 (101)	As long as you have a wide range on the aging options you won't have that problem Killer. Are all your fighters prime? If they are make a 20 fight range on prime and post, then a 10 or 15 range on end. So like 20-40 for prime 10-30 post 5-20 end then you'll have an actual range of 35-90 for every fighter. That's a pretty wide range. Also I have close to 10,000 fighters right now. my actual # is around 12,500 but that includes fictional TC's and duplicates which I weed out as they enter my uni. Last edited by mh2365; 02-15-2006 at 07:52 PM.

02-17-2006, 04:09 PM	#18
javier_83 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 3,091	Thanis Jim, i am one of the others who loves this new option __________________ Unification World of Boxing Universal World of Boxing First Tbcb Forum Tournament

02-15-2006, 11:19 AM	#4
Lee Global Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The Scorched Desert Posts: 4,652	Let me also say how much I love the aging feature as well and I too can not for the life of me understand why even bother to complain when it is optional. If you like it use it, if not don't..........pretty simple.

02-15-2006, 11:26 AM	#5
Jim_Kidd All Star Reserve Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Florida, West Coast Posts: 578	I personally am not using the aging feature as of yet. In real life, fighters like Archie Moore age "abnormally" slow and have careers that seem to go on and on. Fighters like Bernard Hopkins is another example. Basically, I move fighters in and out of my universe more according to record than age. Archie won't be past-prime until he's had over 300 fights!

02-15-2006, 04:24 PM	#11
steamboat brand, palooka Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 156	Well, mh2365, Now that you mention it, S-O-M baseball was the OTHER sports board game that seemed to hold up, other than Title Bout. It is extremely accurate statistically. I play their baseball board game, too. I like the IDEA of their hockey board game, as well, but it is way too flawed in comparison with the baseball game. No more free adverts for S-O-M here. I trashed one of the two SOM products I mentioned anyway.

02-15-2006, 07:00 PM	#12
killerpuncher Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 54	steamboat EHM is by far the best hockey game on the market period (and is an official partner of OOTP) Jim I'm not complaining about the agining I would love to have fighters retire after 40-60 fights. In TB1 this is what I did I have the auto scheduler go through all of my fighters in each division and did that 10 times the unbeaten fighters were then matched up in a tournament style fight to determine champions. In otherwords ALL of my 5500+ fighters have a minimum 10 fights. I don't want to have a mass retirement 30 fights later especially since I don't see any new fighters in every weight class (correct me if i am wrong people) cornerbout.com is where I got the mass fighters some way back when had corrupted data that showed up in the auto scheduling once i found out who those were I then set up my fights listed above.

02-15-2006, 11:17 PM	#14
killerpuncher Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 54	MH excellent yes they are all set to prime i'll do that that sound like a great option. Are there more areas other than cornerwork to get fighters? I would like to get real ones but don't mind fictional ones but I draw the line at tomato cans easpecially in teh non heavyweights I want then to win a few times at least. The heavyweights i want to give the lower ranked fighters some belt to claim (maybe an NABF or a real minor one like that). While most others will gun for the big ones.

02-16-2006, 05:32 AM	#15
mh2365 Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: louisville Posts: 14,941 Infractions: 0/2 (101)	Most of the fighters I believe are on cornerwork, I download them from this board, but I've been doing it for a couple of years now so the number has just grown.

02-16-2006, 10:53 AM	#16
Jim_Kidd All Star Reserve Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Florida, West Coast Posts: 578	By the way, just in case we're all characters in someone else's "universe" without realizing it, I motion to have my own personal "auto-age" feature unchecked immediately. I woke up looking like hell this morning. I tried a different mirror a few hours later... not much improvement.