Is the New Ranking System Adjustable?

[JohnnyBench]

Is the new ranking system adjustable in the sense that you can choose a certain area to give more importance to. An example would be that I may want to give more credit for winning percentage than for the last five fights etc.

If this is adjustable, how?

Thanks in advance!

[mh2365]

Here is what the new ranking system is based on

Originally Posted by sabotai

Ok, let's get this puppy started again.

Taking the ELO idea and running with it, here's something I came up with.

First, we have an INI file, or something like that, that will contain modifiers to the equation that everyone can change based on their ideas. Here's a list I came up with.

STOPPAGE_WIN (KO or TKO)
UDEC_WIN (Unanimous Decision, All rounds completed)
ODEC_WIN (Other Decision: Split, Majority, and All Technical Decisions. We can split these up if people feel it necessary)
DRAW (Again, we can split up the draws if people feel it necessary)

STOPPAGE_LOSE
UDEC_LOSE
ODEC_LOSE

CONSTANT (The value the gets multiplied by the modifier and then added to the old value)

The equation:

New Value = Old Value + (CONSTANT * MODIFIER)

Here's an example

STOPPAGE_WIN = 2.1
UDEC_WIN = 2.0
ODEC_WIN = 1.7
DRAW = 0.2
STOPPAGE_LOSE = -2.1
UDEC_LOSE = -2.0
ODEC_WIN = -1.7

CONSTANT = 20

Old Value = 1000

Win by KO: = 1000 + (20 * 2.1)
= 1000 + 42
= 1042

Lose by Split Dec = 1000 + (20 * -1.7)
= 1000 + (-34)
= 1000 - 34
= 966

if The winner of the fight is still ranked below the loser, we move the fighter up. This does raise one problem that I will get to later.

Fighter 1 has 1151
Fighter 2 has 1299

Fighter 1 wins by KO

Fighter 1 = 1151 + (20 * 2.1)
Fighter 1 = 1151 + 42
Fighter 1 = 1193

Fighter 2 = 1299 + (20 * -2.1)
Fighter 2 = 1299 - 42
Fighter 2 = 1257

Now, some people might think that an added punishment to the higher ranked fighter is in order. After all, he lost to a lower ranked fighter. He should lost more points than if he lost to a higher ranked fighter.

Take the difference of the value. 1257 - 1193 = 64. Now, we need to decide how much we are going to punish the higher ranked fighter. Note, we never have to actually do anything to the winner/lower ranked fighter. The goal of this is to move the winner 1 point higher than the loser, therefore, all we need to do is figure out much we want to bring the loser down, and then add 1 to his value and assign that to the winner.

So, we can add a new variable to the INI file. RANK_DIFFERENCE_MOD. This should be a value 0 - 1. (0.0, 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, etc. to 1.0)

So now, we do this: New Value = Old Value - (Rank_Difference * RANK_DIFFERENCE_MOD)

The less you want to punish the loser, the lower you give the mod value.

Example:

= 1257 - (64 * 0.1)
= 1257 - 6.4 ----- > At this point, we may want to make sure you round up or down
= 1257 - 6
= 1251

And then, we make Fighter 1's value 1252

If you don't think any punishment is needed, then simply set it to 0.0. If you want to completely split the difference 50/50, make it 0.5. If you want to bring the loser down more than bring the winner up, make it higher than 0.5.

The problem I talked about earlier is simple. In real life, there are thousands of fighters in each weight class. In TB universes, peopke usually have 40-50, maybe as much as 100. Those running just one division may have more. The point being, Moving the fighter up above losers that are higher ranked could quickly lead to fighters who are, say, 2-8-2 being in the top 10 if a fighter gets a fluke win over a top 10 guy.

This is the hurdle I've been trying to come up with a solution to. So far, I haven't come up with a solution. However, judging by people talking about the rankings before the crash, it would seem many would like a system like this over the PP system in place now.

So the things you asked about aren't part of the equation ... last five is no longer figured into the rankings, so neither could win %. The modifiers are adjustable though. So if you feel that ko's should count more you can adjust that.

The modifiers are in the db.ini inside your db folder.

I don't pretend to know how this new system works as it wasn't me who came up with it, I am very pleased with it, however.

[Andreas Raht]

Well, actually it has been this post:

Originally Posted by gunsmoke

A Ranking formula needs to be put in place that will evolve a fighter's ranking a bit like the system used at Boxrec. Fighters start at 1000 Ranking Points and the total will evolve after every fight. I proposed the folowing formula.

F1 Ranking Points New = F1 Old Ranking Points + (Constant * Fight Result Modifier) + ((F2 Ranking Points - F1 Ranking Points)/25)

The Contant I use is 21 but that should be configurable.

Fight Result Modifiers would be:
2 - Stoppage Win
1 - Win
0 - Draw
-1 - Loss
-2 - Stoppage Loss

Let's see how it works. Fighter 1 has 1000 Ranking points and he KOs Fighter 2 (1250 Ranking Points). The two fighters Ranking Points would calculate to:

Fighter 1:
1000 + (21 * 2) + ((1250 - 1000)/25) = 1052

Fighter 2:
1250 + (21 * -2) + ((1000 - 1250)/25) = 1198

I would suggest to avoid situations where the above occurs that Fighter 1's total is still less than fighter he defeated would get his total set to Fighter 2's Total + 1. Using our example above Fighter 1s Ranking Points would be set to 1199.

An Alternative to the last concept of making sure that the winning fighter ranks above the loser is one that Mike (MH) came up with. Mike suggested instead of setting Fighter 1s total above that of Fighter 2s directly, you would adjust Fighter 2s total down further and then raise Fighter 1s ranking points to F2 + 1. This would occur using the following formula:

F2 Ranking Points = F2 Ranking Points - ((F2 Ranking Points - F2 Ranking Points)/2)
F1 Ranking Points = F2 Ranking Points +1

Using our earlier example:
Fighter 1 = 1052
Fighter 2 = 1198

Fighter 2s Adjusted Point Total:
1198 - ((1198 - 1052)/2) = 1125

Fighter 1s Adjusted Points Total:
1125 + 1 = 1126

Therefore Fighter 1 will be ranked above Fighter 2, but he hasn't been moved into the same ranking position as Fighter 2 held previously.

[JohnnyBench]

Thanks Guys!

You guys are just part of what make the playing of this game so enjoyable!

So, it is possible to adjust one of the above lines and give more importance to a specific area. Great!

If I increase one of the sections do I have to increase another? I mean is there a base number that they all have to equal to like the punch ratings?

[Andreas Raht]

Changes added to the above routine:

- all numbers in the db.ini file will be devided by ten before they are being used in the program. This is to prevent trouble with decimal numbers in the db.ini. Don't use decimals in the db.ini!

- The divisor 25 in the main formula can be changed in the db.ini, it's the DIVISOR1

- The divisor 2 in the "correction" formula can be changed in the db.ini, it's the DIVISOR2

- The RATING_LOSE/RATING_WIN factors in the db.ini are added to the main formula. If a fighter fights against a high rated fighter (the overall rating 1-15), he will get extra points. The higher the rating, the more points. If he loses against a fighter, he will lose points, the LOWER the opponent's overall rating, the more points he will lose. This is in addition to the main formula.

- RankingMethod must be 3 - if it's not 3, the old ranking method will be used.

[Andreas Raht]

Originally Posted by JohnnyBench

If I increase one of the sections do I have to increase another? I mean is there a base number that they all have to equal to like the punch ratings?

No. You can change any value. After a bout, you can check how it effected the performance points.

[mh2365]

Thanks for clarifying Andreas ... like I said above I don't pretend to know how the system works I just really like it. The rankings in my Universe are much more acceptable.

[JohnnyBench]

Thanks again guys for all the help. Can't wait to play around with the rankings!
Great work!

[Cap]

Why, a five-year old child could understand that.....somebody get hold of a five-year old child, I can't understand a word they just said.

Perhaps if we used these cardboard cut-outs to demonstrate....Nurse, give me back my scissors!

[mh2365]

I don't pretend to understand how the #'s in the db.ini work. One of my favorite parts of the new ranking system is that when you edit the pp on the stats screen it actually works. So if I want someone to have 215 pp I type in 215 and when I save it they actually have 215!!!!

In the old rankings system I type in 215 save it and they had 21,714.59872 to the 12th power.

[Gunsmoke]

Ok I'll try to explain what altering each rating will do to the rankings formula, I won't promise it won't get a little technical but I'll try to keep it simple.

Andreas in post 5 stated what each of the different items in the db.ini file are and generally what they are. I will attempt to explain what will happen if you alter them up or down.

CONSTANT - This the ranking points that fighters will debut with, ie. their ranking points prior to their first fight. This number is also used as the basis for the ranking reward given to fighters for winning or loosing a fight.

DIVISOR1 - This defaults to 25 in the ini file. This number is used to determine the number of bonus or penalty points the fighter earns for defeating or lossing to higher or lower ranked oppenents (I think that almost makes sense ).

Altering this number will alter the volatility of the ranking system.

If you LOWER this number the amount of penalty for ranking differences will INCREASE so ranking points changes will be MORE pronounced. Higher ranked winners will gain less benefit than with the default DIVISOR1 however lower ranked winners will gain more ranking points.

If you INCREASE the number the rankings will be LESS volatile and movement more constrained. Higher ranked winners will gain more points for a win while lower ranked opponents will be held back a bit.

Obviously the amount in either direction will determine how severely the results will be changed. For example if we changed the DIVISOR1 number to 50 and held a fight between Fighter 1 with 1250 ranking points and Fighter 2 with 1000 ranking points with Fighter 1 winning by KO (and assuming no difference in rating) the new ranking points totals for Fighter 1 will be:

Fighter 1:
1250 + (21 * 2) + ((1000 - 1250)/50) = 1287

However if we had of left DIVISOR1 at default of 25 Fighter 1's ranking points would be:

Fighter 1:
1250 + (21 * 2) + ((1000 - 1250)/25) = 1282

As you can see with DIVISOR1 set to 50 the ranking points gain for the Higher ranked Fighter 1 was more pronounced.

However if Fighter 2 won the bout via a KO that would result in the following rankings points changes with DIVISOR1 set to 50 and 25:

Fighter 2:
1000 + (21 * 2) + ((1250 - 1000)/50) = 1047

Fighter 2:
1000 + (21 * 2) + ((1250 - 1000)/25) = 1052

Notice that Fighter 2 as the lower ranked fighter gained more points for winning with the DIVISOR1 set to 25.

I think I may have to break this into a series of posts..

[Gunsmoke]

Back again for more punishment, first we'll try DIVISOR2 and then we'll move onto the result adjustments.

DIVISOR2 - DIVISOR2 (default of 2) is used in the calculation to ensure that fighters who lose to a lower ranked opponent loose enough ranking points to be ranked LOWER than that opponent. It does this while ensuring that if the 100th ranked fighter beats to #1 ranked fighter that the #100 doesn't become ranked #1.

If this number is RAISED the higher ranked fighters will be punished MORE for a loss to a lower ranked opponent and the lower ranked fighter will NOT gain as much from the win.

IF this number is LOWERED the higher ranked fighter will retain more of his ranking while the lower ranked fighter will gain MORE for his win.

Fight Result Modifiers - These modifiers are used to adjust the amount a fighter gains/looses for certain types of victories or defeats. The factors, the defaults and short definitions are shown below (please note that Title Bout reads these numbers in as 2.1 or 1.7 not 21 and 17):

STOPPAGE_WIN=21 - KO or TKO victories
UDEC_WIN=20 - Unanimous decision wins
ODEC_WIN=17 - Disputed decision wins
DRAW=2 - Obvious
STOPPAGE_LOSE=-21 - Loss via KO or TKO
UDEC_LOSE=-20 - Unanimous decision loss
ODEC_LOSE=-17 - Disputed decision loss

These factors are used in the first part of the Ranking points calculation and will play a large part in determining how fighters are rewarded for wins.

If these numbers are LOWERED fighters will gain or be penalised LESS for certain types of wins.

If these numbers are INCREASED fighters will gain or be penalised MORE for certain types of wins.

For example if you thought the a Stappage win/less should actually be worth 1 and a half times more than a decision win/loss then you would increase the STOPPAGE_WIN and STOPPAGE_LOSE numbers to 30 (or 3.0 to Title Bout), which is 1.5 times the amount a UDEC_WIN ot UDEC_LOSE (unanimous decisions) are worth.

Hope this all helps people tinker a bit with the system. By all means try things out, the default is pretty much how I had rankings being calculated in the WWBU however you guys might have different opinions on the value of different types of wins. I just urge you to test any changes in a trial database before inflicting a test ranking calculation on your favourite universe, and please note the defulats so you can return to them later if you find that the changes don't work as well as you'd hoped.

Cheers,
Mark

[mh2365]

Thanks Mark

[Cap]

Ok, Mark. Now explain Microsoft Access to me.


Actually, thanks Mike and Mark for going to the trouble of explaining this stuff. More examples of the great folks that make up this little community.

I've printed off a lot of your comments to refer to later when the meds wear off and I can't remember what you said.


Cap