What to do with underachiever?

GardnerFTW · 02-02-2006, 05:30 PM

In an online league as the Twins, I'm having some trouble figuring out Michael Cuddyer (3.5 gold stars overall). By the ratings, he should be an outstanding hitter, or at least a decent hitter.

87 contact (91 talent)
87 gap (78 talent)
66 power (66 talent)
71 eye/discipline (78 talent)
57 avoiding K's (51 talent)

He hit .266 with 19 HRs and 96 RBIs, .345 OBP, .805 OPS for me in 2005.
As of June 11, 2006 he's sitting at .253 with 3 HRs, 31 RBIs, .343 OBP, .714 OPS for this season. Hitting .316 on the road, .186 at home.

I'm sitting on the best record in the league despite getting that kind of production from my #3 hitter. The problem is that he is a free agent at the end of the season, and basically wanting the big payday he would get if he were playing at the level you'd expect him to be playing. He turned down $6 mill per for 3 years wanting more more money. So basically I'm trying to decide whether to pay him the money and hope he turns it around in the years to come, or trade him before the deadline.

But basically before deciding on one of those, I thought I'd seek out advice on possibly getting him to play better under the current circumstances. I'm considering moving him in the order, which may help in real life, but how much effect would it have in the game? Is there any other options, I'm not seeing.

Any help or advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Bluenoser · 02-02-2006, 05:47 PM

First thing I'd try is moving him down in the line-up, say the #7 or #8 spot. I have a similar type guy on one of my teams with great speed and stealing ability. Should be the ideal lead-off hitter but doesn't get on base much when I play him there. I dropped him to #8 and he's doing a lot better. BA went up from .256 to .297. His OBP has climbed over .350.

Dork · 02-02-2006, 06:41 PM

My personal opinion is that I would trade him, or at least see who you could get.

If you can get someone with similiar numbers who is batting better, I would make the trade.

With his numbers and stats, you should get a player that is batting better overall.

james17 · 02-02-2006, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruceM

First thing I'd try is moving him down in the line-up, say the #7 or #8 spot. I have a similar type guy on one of my teams with great speed and stealing ability. Should be the ideal lead-off hitter but doesn't get on base much when I play him there. I dropped him to #8 and he's doing a lot better. BA went up from .256 to .297. His OBP has climbed over .350.

I've had some success in dropping them in the order too.

Dark Horse · 02-02-2006, 08:42 PM

Keep an eye on his home/road splits. Right now there's an outrageous difference.

Are you playing him differently (changing the lineup any way) away from home?

Do you play in an extreme pitcher's park?

How is hitting compared to teammate's home and away split?

If he were hitting roughly the same home and away, i would say move him around in the lineup. Or you could change who (the type of player) bats behind him.

lencombs · 02-02-2006, 08:51 PM

I would drop him in the lineup and give him more days off and see if his numbers come up before the trade dealine end of July, (if your league uses that). Particularly during home games since for whatever reason his avg is a lot lower at home. Slide someone with a better average and .obs from the 6-7-8 slot into the 3 hole if you have anyone.

As for trading him depends on what value you can get, if he is still just 26 like in real life he still has some upside potential and I would lean towards keeping him since you are leading your league, and equal trade value may be hard due to his lower numbers this year.

This kind of player catches my eye in free agency, coming off a down year but just hitting his prime. Kinda guy you can sometimes sign for cheaper than normal because of a down year, then see if next year he overachieves.

Raidergoo · 02-02-2006, 09:15 PM

Try talking to the player.

I've told told many a player " Son, you've got to hit ( throw strikes) to stay with the organization. Else we'll have to move on."

Sublimity · 02-02-2006, 09:18 PM

The splits suggest some trouble at home. If he's married, maybe suggest a marriage counselor. If he's not married, either take him to a strip club, or suggest he stop frequenting such places, depending on how he rolls.

GardnerFTW · 02-02-2006, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Horse

Keep an eye on his home/road splits. Right now there's an outrageous difference.

Are you playing him differently (changing the lineup any way) away from home?

Do you play in an extreme pitcher's park?

How is hitting compared to teammate's home and away split?

If he were hitting roughly the same home and away, i would say move him around in the lineup. Or you could change who (the type of player) bats behind him.

No difference between home and away as to where he is in the lineup or position he's playing.

My home stadium is the Metrodome, I've never really paid much attention to the park effects before, so not sure what would constitute a pitcher's park in regards to those. But the Park Effects for my home field are:
AVG RHB: 100
AVG LHB: 102
HR RHB: 86
HR LHB: 106
2B: 113
3B: 106

He's hitting directly in front of my best power hitter, Bucky Jacobsen (78 contact, 88 power, 72 eye), who is hitting .318 with 12 HRs, 41 RBIs, .429 OBP, and .996 OPS.

After looking through the rest of my starting line-up, most players are fairly close in the home-away hitting. 1 player hits much better at home than on the road, and there is one other player who hits terrible at home. And I can't really find any direct link that would draw me to why those 2 hit so bad at home, and both are otherwise solid hitters.

Also to take into consideration, 4 of my 5 SPs pitch significantly worse at home, while the other is only a little worse. Johan Santana for example has a 1.30 ERA on the road and a 3.99 ERA at home, in an equal number of starts. Which I think would probably lead me to believe its not a pitchers park.

lencombs · 02-02-2006, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GardnerFTW

No difference between home and away as to where he is in the lineup or position he's playing.

My home stadium is the Metrodome, I've never really paid much attention to the park effects before, so not sure what would constitute a pitcher's park in regards to those. But the Park Effects for my home field are:
AVG RHB: 100
AVG LHB: 102
HR RHB: 86
HR LHB: 106
2B: 113
3B: 106

He's hitting directly in front of my best power hitter, Bucky Jacobsen (78 contact, 88 power, 72 eye), who is hitting .318 with 12 HRs, 41 RBIs, .429 OBP, and .996 OPS.

Also to take into consideration, 4 of my 5 SPs pitch significantly worse at home, while the other is only a little worse. Johan Santana for example has a 1.30 ERA on the road and a 3.99 ERA at home, in an equal number of starts. Which I think would probably lead me to believe its not a pitchers park.

Thats a lefty power park, 20 points higher.

Bucky is also a righty, a lefty with those stats could easily be around 20 hr's mid-season in that park.

Guessing they have lower movement ratings, and are giving up long balls at home to left handed power hitters.

Tycobbler · 02-03-2006, 12:39 AM

I'm with Bruce on this one. Move the fella down to the 7-8 spot if you can. I also had a player with decent speed/eye and it wasn't working out at the top of the order so i moved him to 8th in front of my pitcher, or in your case a player who is better suited at bunting. If Cuddyer improves his numbers there he not only gets on more, but the batter behind him moves him into scoring position by bunting him over ie set the batter after Cuddyer to max. sac bunt. Works for me

zukes · 02-03-2006, 12:19 PM

I had teh same problem with Melvin Mora. He was junk in every patr of the order. I traded his whiny ass. Don't think I got much for him. When he was playing for me ahe was struggling around the Mendoza line. Since I've traded him, he has been a starter on another NL team (I traded him to the AL but he became a FA and signed back in the NL) and has had two straight season with over 500 AB's and a batting average of about .198. I don't understand why teams don't just cut bait like I did.

ctorg · 02-03-2006, 01:10 PM

Shop him around and see what you can get. You might be able to land something good for him.

Gastric ReFlux · 02-03-2006, 01:17 PM

I think you need to stop going easy on him and hire some thugs to beat him up.

Erik · 02-03-2006, 01:23 PM

I've got an underachiever also.

The guy was a stud in the minors. He was hitting at least 60 HR's every year in the minors. I think he is now 24. 60 HR's in my league is phenominal. I believe the league leader in the majors last year had around 45 which was very good. This guy had 76 HR's in the minors one year. He also hit around .330 or higher every year. So why did I not bring him up? Cause whenever I did he was horrible.

Finally, due to money problems, I had to let Mike Schmidt go after this past year and my minor league stud is a 3B so it worked out good. I figure finally this guy has had enough minor league grooming. I mean there's no point in him being in the minor leagues any longer. I just passed the mid-way point and the guy is hitting around .220 with only about 6 HR's playing on a daily basis. I'm at work and don't have his exact numbers or ratings on me right now, but he has like a 4 or 5 Contact rating, a 7 or 8 Power and Gap rating and a 4 or 5 to round him out on the others. I can't figure out why this guy can't hit major league pitching, but just dominates the minor leagues. Any solutions?

thomamon · 02-03-2006, 01:28 PM

Try Benching him for a bunch of games as well. Or a platoon for a while? This has helped me.

Jestor · 02-05-2006, 04:37 PM

Dropping guys like that down in the lineup usually helps I've found

mrbill · 02-05-2006, 06:25 PM

Minor league stats can be really deceiving, especially when a guy is a class above AAA talent (like a 7 or 8 in power). He'll dominate any pitcher in AAA, especially young guys who are there developing and haven't maxed their ratings. If they had 6+ movement, chances are they'd be in the majors, where they'll shut this guy down.

Erik · 02-06-2006, 12:15 PM

Thanks for the insight guys.

After one year my said player had 18 HR's and 80 something RBI's. Solid, but not the HR power I was expecting him to have. He also hit something like .230 which hopefully he can improve.

I did drop him down to 7th in the line-up where he seemed to do a little better.

Dark Horse · 02-06-2006, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GardnerFTW

No difference between home and away as to where he is in the lineup or position he's playing.

My home stadium is the Metrodome, I've never really paid much attention to the park effects before, so not sure what would constitute a pitcher's park in regards to those. But the Park Effects for my home field are:
AVG RHB: 100
AVG LHB: 102
HR RHB: 86
HR LHB: 106
2B: 113
3B: 106

He's hitting directly in front of my best power hitter, Bucky Jacobsen (78 contact, 88 power, 72 eye), who is hitting .318 with 12 HRs, 41 RBIs, .429 OBP, and .996 OPS.

After looking through the rest of my starting line-up, most players are fairly close in the home-away hitting. 1 player hits much better at home than on the road, and there is one other player who hits terrible at home. And I can't really find any direct link that would draw me to why those 2 hit so bad at home, and both are otherwise solid hitters.

Also to take into consideration, 4 of my 5 SPs pitch significantly worse at home, while the other is only a little worse. Johan Santana for example has a 1.30 ERA on the road and a 3.99 ERA at home, in an equal number of starts. Which I think would probably lead me to believe its not a pitchers park.

i forgot to ask what his lefty/righty splits look like.

If he has an extreme split there, it may be through a scheduling fluke that he is facing his tougher matchups (rhp vs. lhp) at home. If that's the case, i would just adjust the lineup for the matchup with whom he was struggling. If his struggling continued, i'd platoon him.

If his lefty/righty splits are prettly close, i wouldn't do anything in the short term. It would seem flukey that he'd only be hitting badly on the road. And those things tend to even out. His home average should start to improve. If he continues to struggle at home AND you're losing more games at home, i would consider benching him for home games; at least for a series.

02-02-2006, 05:30 PM	#1
GardnerFTW Bat Boy Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 17	What to do with underachiever? In an online league as the Twins, I'm having some trouble figuring out Michael Cuddyer (3.5 gold stars overall). By the ratings, he should be an outstanding hitter, or at least a decent hitter. 87 contact (91 talent) 87 gap (78 talent) 66 power (66 talent) 71 eye/discipline (78 talent) 57 avoiding K's (51 talent) He hit .266 with 19 HRs and 96 RBIs, .345 OBP, .805 OPS for me in 2005. As of June 11, 2006 he's sitting at .253 with 3 HRs, 31 RBIs, .343 OBP, .714 OPS for this season. Hitting .316 on the road, .186 at home. I'm sitting on the best record in the league despite getting that kind of production from my #3 hitter. The problem is that he is a free agent at the end of the season, and basically wanting the big payday he would get if he were playing at the level you'd expect him to be playing. He turned down $6 mill per for 3 years wanting more more money. So basically I'm trying to decide whether to pay him the money and hope he turns it around in the years to come, or trade him before the deadline. But basically before deciding on one of those, I thought I'd seek out advice on possibly getting him to play better under the current circumstances. I'm considering moving him in the order, which may help in real life, but how much effect would it have in the game? Is there any other options, I'm not seeing. Any help or advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

02-02-2006, 08:42 PM	#5
Dark Horse Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas! Posts: 2,633	Keep an eye on his home/road splits. Right now there's an outrageous difference. Are you playing him differently (changing the lineup any way) away from home? Do you play in an extreme pitcher's park? How is hitting compared to teammate's home and away split? If he were hitting roughly the same home and away, i would say move him around in the lineup. Or you could change who (the type of player) bats behind him. __________________ A Justafan Fan LBA Geo Bahn Rock Hounds fan of the ISLANDIAN PRO ALLIANCE

02-02-2006, 08:51 PM	#6
lencombs All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Eureka, Ca Posts: 535	I would drop him in the lineup and give him more days off and see if his numbers come up before the trade dealine end of July, (if your league uses that). Particularly during home games since for whatever reason his avg is a lot lower at home. Slide someone with a better average and .obs from the 6-7-8 slot into the 3 hole if you have anyone. As for trading him depends on what value you can get, if he is still just 26 like in real life he still has some upside potential and I would lean towards keeping him since you are leading your league, and equal trade value may be hard due to his lower numbers this year. This kind of player catches my eye in free agency, coming off a down year but just hitting his prime. Kinda guy you can sometimes sign for cheaper than normal because of a down year, then see if next year he overachieves. __________________ "A passion for statistics is the earmark of a literate people." - Paul Fisher "Baseball isn't statistics. Baseball is (Joe) DiMaggio rounding second." - Jimmy Cannon

02-03-2006, 01:10 PM	#13
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	Shop him around and see what you can get. You might be able to land something good for him. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

02-03-2006, 01:28 PM	#16
thomamon Global Moderator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 5,274	Try Benching him for a bunch of games as well. Or a platoon for a while? This has helped me. __________________ Thomas A. Montalto Please check out my Stupid Little Blog - http://www.stupidlittleblog.com

02-02-2006, 05:47 PM	#2
Bluenoser Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In The Moment Posts: 14,224	First thing I'd try is moving him down in the line-up, say the #7 or #8 spot. I have a similar type guy on one of my teams with great speed and stealing ability. Should be the ideal lead-off hitter but doesn't get on base much when I play him there. I dropped him to #8 and he's doing a lot better. BA went up from .256 to .297. His OBP has climbed over .350.

02-02-2006, 06:41 PM	#3
Dork Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 27	My personal opinion is that I would trade him, or at least see who you could get. If you can get someone with similiar numbers who is batting better, I would make the trade. With his numbers and stats, you should get a player that is batting better overall.

02-02-2006, 09:15 PM	#7
Raidergoo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 9,005	Try talking to the player. I've told told many a player " Son, you've got to hit ( throw strikes) to stay with the organization. Else we'll have to move on."

02-02-2006, 09:18 PM	#8
Sublimity Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: This thread. Posts: 3,199	The splits suggest some trouble at home. If he's married, maybe suggest a marriage counselor. If he's not married, either take him to a strip club, or suggest he stop frequenting such places, depending on how he rolls. __________________ mrs ria: I hereby dub Sublimity the Glorious Upholder of the 5B3. Current leading vote-getter in the Worst Poster in OT History poll.

02-03-2006, 12:39 AM	#11
Tycobbler All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 20 minutes from Comerica Park Posts: 1,956	I'm with Bruce on this one. Move the fella down to the 7-8 spot if you can. I also had a player with decent speed/eye and it wasn't working out at the top of the order so i moved him to 8th in front of my pitcher, or in your case a player who is better suited at bunting. If Cuddyer improves his numbers there he not only gets on more, but the batter behind him moves him into scoring position by bunting him over ie set the batter after Cuddyer to max. sac bunt. Works for me

02-03-2006, 12:19 PM	#12
zukes All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: London, Ont. Canada Posts: 1,106	I had teh same problem with Melvin Mora. He was junk in every patr of the order. I traded his whiny ass. Don't think I got much for him. When he was playing for me ahe was struggling around the Mendoza line. Since I've traded him, he has been a starter on another NL team (I traded him to the AL but he became a FA and signed back in the NL) and has had two straight season with over 500 AB's and a batting average of about .198. I don't understand why teams don't just cut bait like I did.

02-03-2006, 01:17 PM	#14
Gastric ReFlux Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Member #3409 Posts: 8,350	I think you need to stop going easy on him and hire some thugs to beat him up.

02-03-2006, 01:23 PM	#15
Erik All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 505	I've got an underachiever also. The guy was a stud in the minors. He was hitting at least 60 HR's every year in the minors. I think he is now 24. 60 HR's in my league is phenominal. I believe the league leader in the majors last year had around 45 which was very good. This guy had 76 HR's in the minors one year. He also hit around .330 or higher every year. So why did I not bring him up? Cause whenever I did he was horrible. Finally, due to money problems, I had to let Mike Schmidt go after this past year and my minor league stud is a 3B so it worked out good. I figure finally this guy has had enough minor league grooming. I mean there's no point in him being in the minor leagues any longer. I just passed the mid-way point and the guy is hitting around .220 with only about 6 HR's playing on a daily basis. I'm at work and don't have his exact numbers or ratings on me right now, but he has like a 4 or 5 Contact rating, a 7 or 8 Power and Gap rating and a 4 or 5 to round him out on the others. I can't figure out why this guy can't hit major league pitching, but just dominates the minor leagues. Any solutions?

02-05-2006, 06:25 PM	#18
mrbill All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: LA, CA Posts: 982	Minor league stats can be really deceiving, especially when a guy is a class above AAA talent (like a 7 or 8 in power). He'll dominate any pitcher in AAA, especially young guys who are there developing and haven't maxed their ratings. If they had 6+ movement, chances are they'd be in the majors, where they'll shut this guy down. __________________ UBL - Best Online League Evar! - Los Angeles Dodgers: 25 seasons, 13 NL West titles, 4 WC, 8 NL Titles, 5-time Champs LBB v5 league (retired) - Detroit Tigers/Commish: 19 seasons, 18 straight AL Central titles, 2006, 2008, 2014, 2015 Champs! NGBL v6 league (dead) - Texas Rangers: 10 seasons, 4 AL South titles, 2 Wild Cards, one WS app

02-06-2006, 12:15 PM	#19
Erik All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 505	Thanks for the insight guys. After one year my said player had 18 HR's and 80 something RBI's. Solid, but not the HR power I was expecting him to have. He also hit something like .230 which hopefully he can improve. I did drop him down to 7th in the line-up where he seemed to do a little better.