Baltimore Orioles Off-Season Thread

[abailey3313]

Originally Posted by Russ

They still have one of the best lineups in the majors though. This is what their lineup is looking like so far:

1 B-Rob 2B
2 Mora 3B
3 Tejada SS
4 Lopez 1B
5 Gibbons RF
6 Byrnes LF (I think they should have kept Bigbie)
7 Hernandez C
8 Probably Conine DH
9 Matos (trade this guy while he still has some value PLEASE!!) CF

I don't even want to think about their pitching rotation.

I disagree that that line-up is one of the best in the majors. Tejada and Mora are studs. Aside from that, I just don't see it.

Roberts had a great (awesome) year last season, but that was his first. Call me pessimistic, but I like to see a guy put together more than just one really stellar year.

Lopez is obviously a guy capable of hitting the ball, but aside from 2003 and 1998, he doesn't even provide 30-home run power. Those are also the only two seasons he's driven in 100 runs. I like the guy a lot as a hitter. But he doesn't have the clean-up power of a guy in "one of the best line-ups in baseball".

Byrnes and Matos aren't threats. They're decent bit players, I guess. But there are several line-ups with better bats in their positions.

Ramon Hernandez, I love. But again, I'm not ready to overrate him. He's a lifetime .262 hitter and has maxed out at 78 RBIs. I know the catcher position is weak and he's one of the better players available at that position, but I'm not going as far as to call him a piece of one of the best line-ups in the game.

[rem]

Originally Posted by abailey3313

Ramon Hernandez, I love. But again, I'm not ready to overrate him. He's a lifetime .262 hitter and has maxed out at 78 RBIs. I know the catcher position is weak and he's one of the better players available at that position, but I'm not going as far as to call him a piece of one of the best line-ups in the game.

His numbers are a lot better when you consider that he played in Oakland and San Diego - two extreme pitcher's parks.

[CBL-Commish]

Originally Posted by Russ

They still have one of the best lineups in the majors though...I don't even want to think about their pitching rotation.

Except that they finished last in the AL East in runs scored last year, and that was with a pretty fair 2/3 of a year from Raffy, Lopez a year younger, and Brian Roberts channeling Rogers Hornsby. Their offense is a distinct weakness at this point, but might be ok if they sign a good player or platoon for either DH/1B, or trade Javy for a young firstbaseman like Kotchman or Adrian Gonzalez.

The rotation, on the other hand, could be pretty good. Bedard was great until he got hurt, and has very good minor league credentials. Cabrera is the rare combination of a high K/high ground ball pitcher, who just needs a little something to get his control more consistent. Chen is a solid back of the rotation guy, Rodrigo Lopez at least eats innings (and every other year is pretty good). If they can sign or trade for one more starter they could have pitching to hang with anyone in the division. And all that's without adding in the Mazzone factor.

[QuestGAV]

Yeah Hernandez's EQAs for the past three years have been .274, .285, .275. Averages at C the past few years have been around like .245 IIRC from another thread. That's significant production. He's not elite, but they're not giving him elite money either.

I agree that Roberts is likely to fall back to earth next year though.

[abailey3313]

Originally Posted by remangiii

His numbers are a lot better when you consider that he played in Oakland and San Diego - two extreme pitcher's parks.

Hadn't taken that into consideration.

I do stand by my statement that I don't believe the O's line-up is one of the best in baseball. Just off the top of my head I would place the Angels, Yankees, Mets, Cardinals, Red Sox, and Giants* (assuming Bonds is healthy) above them.

* Partially an unfair statement, because when you have a healthy Barry Bonds in your line-up you can have a lot less strength in your supporting cast.

[swampdragon]

Originally Posted by abailey3313

Hadn't taken that into consideration.

I do stand by my statement that I don't believe the O's line-up is one of the best in baseball. Just off the top of my head I would place the Angels, Yankees, Mets, Cardinals, Red Sox, and Giants* (assuming Bonds is healthy) above them.

* Partially an unfair statement, because when you have a healthy Barry Bonds in your line-up you can have a lot less strength in your supporting cast.

I'll add the Rangers to that group.

[abailey3313]

Originally Posted by swampdragon

I'll add the Rangers to that group.

I considered that. But outside of Blalock and Teixeira (and Dellucci, I guess) I couldn't really think of anybody else that they have. And they just lost Soriano's bat.

EDIT: Oh, Michael Young. Yeah. He's a stud.

[swampdragon]

Let's see:

Wilkerson CF
Young SS
Blalock 3B
Texeira 1B
Nevin DH
Mench LF
Dellucci RF
Barajas C
Kinsler 2B

Doesn't quite match the lineup before Soriano was traded, but I still think it's a strong one.

[abailey3313]

Originally Posted by swampdragon

Let's see:

Wilkerson CF
Young SS
Blalock 3B
Texeira 1B
Nevin DH
Mench LF
Dellucci RF
Barajas C
Kinsler 2B

Doesn't quite match the lineup before Soriano was traded, but I still think it's a strong one.

C: Hernandez > Barajas
1B: Teixeira > Lopez
2B: Roberts > Kinsler
SS: Tejada > Young
3B: Blalock > Mora
LF: Mench > Byrnes
CF: Wilkerson > Matos
RF: Dellucci > Gibbons

B = Orioles
I = Rangers

[rem]

Originally Posted by abailey3313

I do stand by my statement that I don't believe the O's line-up is one of the best in baseball.

I agree.

[abailey3313]

Originally Posted by CBSSportsline.com

Chicago's Daily Southtown says the latest speculation about a trade involving Baltimore shortstop Miguel Tejada has Cubs pitcher Mark Prior and Oakland pitcher Barry Zito going to Baltimore with O's pitcher Erik Bedard going to Oakland and Tejada landing with the Cubs.

Unless we get an extension worked out with Zito beforehand, I'm not sure I like this deal.

[rem]

i dunno.

[abailey3313]

Originally Posted by CBSSportsline.com

The Baltimore Sun says the Orioles are nearing an agreement with Chicago Cubs free agent Jeromy Burnitz.

Two words: DIVISION. CHAMPS.

[spleen1015]

Just what the Orioles needed....Christ, this is a dumbass signing.

[rem]

A 37-year-old sucky, slow outfielder. Yay!

[mgsports]

Eric Byrnes is not with them anymore because he's on the Free-Agent Market!

[abailey3313]

Originally Posted by mgsports

Eric Byrnes is not with them anymore because he's on the Free-Agent Market!

Gee, thanks.

[abailey3313]

Originally Posted by http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/9120818

A team source, speaking on the condition of anonymity since the deal has not been finalized, said Wednesday night that the deal will pay the former Chicago Cubs right fielder between $10 million and $12 million.


The 36-year-old Burnitz hit .258 with 24 homers and 87 RBI with the Cubs last season. The 13-year veteran would fill the hole in left field left by the departure of Eric Byrnes, who was not offered a contract for 2006.


In other news, the Orioles are on the brink of abandoning their effort to trade disgruntled shortstop Miguel Tejada, who has expressed a desire to leave Baltimore because the team has not done enough to improve itself during the offseason.


"There is absolutely no deal we find acceptable to trade this very special player to another team," an Orioles official said.

Only $10 or $12 million for a monster of a hitter in Burnitz? Wow, what a steal!

(FWIW, Burnitz made $4.5M in 2005. This is being reported as a two year deal, which would mean he's going to average either $5M or $6M per season with the Orioles. That's a raise. A raise for a guy who hit .258. I've said it before and I'll say it again: I need to become a professional baseball player.)

Seriously, at least it's an upgrade. But pardon me for not being excited for a lifetime .255 hitter. But hey, again, it's better than having Byrnes out there.

[Sublimity]

This Burnitz thing reminds me of a story about a guy whose foot was on fire. He pissed on it to put it out. His foot wasn't on fire anymore, but it was covered in piss.

I'm sure there were better options available in both cases.

[abailey3313]

Originally Posted by Sublimity

This Burnitz thing reminds me of a story about a guy whose foot was on fire. He pissed on it to put it out. His foot wasn't on fire anymore, but it was covered in piss.

I'm sure there were better options available in both cases.

Like, how about a prospect?

I was talking about this with a guy at work last week. So far this off-season we've brought in 33-year-old Jeromy Burnitz to start in the outfield and 94-year-old Jeff Conine to start at first base. Those signings are fine -- if you're a contender trying to plug holes and add depth.

I understand the pressure is on to a) improve, and b) appease guys like Tejada who are growing frustrated. But, seriously, why are we bringing these rent-a-players in?

Conine especially is a great player to have on your roster. But he's not a starter anymore. In fact, I was surprised who didn't go to a contender to finish out his career. He's an efficient utility man, at least. It just so happens he's one of those guys who loves playing in Baltimore and wants to do so, regardless of the state of the organization.

It's a bit confusing to me though why we're not giving our younger players a shot or taking a chance on other (younger) free agents until we're in a situation to really buckle down and compete with Boston, New York, and now Toronto (and Tampa is hot on our heels as well).