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12-11-2005, 12:55 AM
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#1 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,505
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Hawk gets robbed of the Butkus
How in the world does Pozluzny win the Bednarik and Butkus over Hawk? I know why he won the Bednarik, the Maxwell club is based in Philly. But how in the name of everything that is holy does he take the Butkus over him??
Ok that's my rant for the night.
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12-11-2005, 03:40 AM
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#2 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 2,968
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Pozluzny led the Big 10 in tackles (Hawk did not) and was a 1st team All American. By the numbers Pozluzny had a better season. Everyone agrees Hawk will be the first linebacker drafted, but don't confuse scouting reports and draft projections with college awards.
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"The type and formula of most schemes of philanthropy or humanitarianism is this: A and B put their heads together to decide what C shall be made to do for D. The radical vice of all these schemes, from a sociological point of view, is that C is not allowed a voice in the matter, and his position, character, and interests, as well as the ultimate effects on society through C's interests, are entirely overlooked. I call C the Forgotten Man" - William Graham Sumner |
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12-11-2005, 01:29 PM
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#3 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,505
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That's the biggest myth out there, HAWK had the better statistical year. Poz had 2 more tackles in 101 MORE PLAYS!!! Hawk played on the better defense and thus was on the field less. Hawk had more TFL's, Sacks, INT's and FF's. Hawk was voted by Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year by the Big Ten COACHES and Media who are wayyyy more informed than a national panel.
Pozluzny didn't lead the Big Ten in tackles, if we're going purely by tackles then Greenway or McGarigle should have won the Butkus I guess. Hawk was the only player in the Big Ten to finish in the top 5 in tackles, tackles for loss, and sacks. This isn't even close, it's Hawk by a landslide. I'm absolutely miffed about how this could happen. Bottomline is that Penn State is the feel good story of the year and are the national media darlings right now. If Penn State is 8-3 or worse this vote isn't even close. |
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12-11-2005, 03:03 PM
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#4 |
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Banned
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,465
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Yeah, Hawk should have won. He had the best defensive season, by far, of any conference player when accounting for team defensive success and individual impact (as both affect awards).
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12-11-2005, 03:50 PM
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#5 | |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 5,106
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Quote:
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"I pretty much popped everything cold turkey. We were doing steroids they wouldn't give to horses." -- Tom House "I was very fortunate to have a pitching coach by the name of Tom House...Tom, I really miss those days that we spent in the weight room and out on the field working together." -- Nolan Ryan's HoF Induction Speech |
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12-11-2005, 04:15 PM
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#6 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Sioux Falls, SD
Posts: 5,031
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mixing them up...
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12-11-2005, 11:26 PM
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#7 | |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,505
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Quote:
Ok so if I'm not right about this, how do you explain Michael Robinson being Big Ten offensive player of the year over the likes of Calhoun, Maroney, Basanez, and others when he had the 7th best passing efficiency in the Big Ten and ran for way fewer yards than Troy Smith (Who IMO is not a great QB). How else would you explain Robinson finishing 5th in the Heisman? It's a travesty. No matter how you wanna slice it, Hawk got the shaft here BIG TIME. |
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12-12-2005, 01:40 AM
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#8 |
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Minors (Single A)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 76
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Typical OSU fan, crying when they dont get their way.
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12-12-2005, 02:01 AM
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#9 | ||
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,496
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Quote:
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Delta Sigma Phi: Better men, better lives. How To Get A Warning: Quote:
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12-12-2005, 02:05 AM
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#10 |
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Banned
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,465
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On that note, I do agree that OSU fans cry when they don't get their way, but in this case their crying is quite a bit more justifiable than usual...
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12-12-2005, 02:09 AM
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#11 |
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Minors (Single A)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 76
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The way I see it, why don't he just take it as something to carry with him to the next level. Within the next 4-5 years we'll get to see who the better LB really is.
To say OSU's defense is better an PSU's is, well...a lil harsh. Seeing as PSU's defense DOMINATED OSU when they played each other, not sure what else to go by? What happened to OSU's defense? Looks like they gave up more points... |
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12-12-2005, 02:21 AM
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#12 | |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,505
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Quote:
Well since you seem to throw around baseless accusations and flat out bogus statements, I'll counter with some facts. FACT, OSU had more total yards when they played PSU, so who's D dominated who? FACT, OSU's D ranked ahead of PSU in every major defensive category, again who had the better D? FACT, Hawk had more tackles for loss, sacks, interceptions, forced fumbles and 2 fewer tackles yet OSU's D (because it was better) was on the field for 100 fewer plays than PSU's D. FACT, Hawk was voted Big Ten defensive player of the year by the coaches who saw the 2 play every week and are the most informed group of the all of the panels that voted for all of the various awards. If that doesn't do the trick, well then you my friend are blind. Not sure what you're talking about with OSU fans whining, this is a legitimate screw job, when before have OSU fans whined about anything?? I'm not even assuming you're a PSU fan but if you are, your fan base is the whiniest most unreasonable fan base I've ever ran into. Conspiracy theories everywhere, whining about everything. |
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12-12-2005, 10:47 AM
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#13 |
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All Star Starter
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,534
Infractions: 1/0 (0)
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when does OSU not get it's way?
when have we whined before?? enlighten us please |
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12-12-2005, 03:31 PM
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#14 | |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,505
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Quote:
Was that in response to my post?? Cuz if you're a PSU fan asking about when you guys have whined I'll get my 20 page list ready to reply. |
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12-12-2005, 03:35 PM
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#15 | |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: This thread.
Posts: 3,199
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Quote:
EDIT: Probably in response to XxCardinal's post and seb's reply.
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mrs ria: I hereby dub Sublimity the Glorious Upholder of the 5B3. Current leading vote-getter in the Worst Poster in OT History poll. |
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12-12-2005, 03:38 PM
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#16 | |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,505
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Quote:
lol ok thanks for clearing that up, I wasn't really sure and yes his ID name came off as "pro-OSU". |
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12-12-2005, 03:39 PM
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#17 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: This thread.
Posts: 3,199
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Not a problem. We get enough flame wars without one starting between two people in total agreement.
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mrs ria: I hereby dub Sublimity the Glorious Upholder of the 5B3. Current leading vote-getter in the Worst Poster in OT History poll. |
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12-13-2005, 12:51 AM
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#18 | |
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Minors (Single A)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 76
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Quote:
I am not saying he doesn't deserve it, so you totally misconcepted me. My reply was that most OSU fans that I know of cry and complain when they dont get what they want, and normally overvalue their team as well. Before you ask, no, I'm not a Michigan fan. I actually live in Ohio, so I'm close to the team and hear alot about it, etc... Anyways, sure Hawk had better stats that you listed. What about some other stats that people easily overlook(not sure who was better, just asking). Like how were opposing teams on 3rd down, 3rd and shorts? 4th downs? How many tackles for loss on 2nd and 3rd downs? Or how many DP's did the player have? Pressuring the QB and forcing a play on 3rd down, or focing an INT/Fumble and shifting field position, etc...What about SPECIAL TEAMS? Counts as DEFENSE to me. Just little stats out there in key situations which IMO ultimately determine games. It somewhere along the lines obviously had an effect in the OSU/PSU game. Somewhere along the lines PSU was better than OSU on defense...they did win afterall. Fade... Last edited by XxCardinal42xX; 12-13-2005 at 12:52 AM. |
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12-13-2005, 05:16 AM
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#19 | |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,505
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Quote:
Alright, well I guess we're in similar situations, I lived in PA for 15 years and I got the same perception of PSU fans that you seem to have for OSU fans. As for the stats you are talking about, I mentioned that Hawk had more forced fumbles and INT's. Poz didn't record an INT and I'm pretty sure he only had 1 FF if any at all. As far as pressuring the QB and things of that nature, Hawk was in the top 5 in the Big Ten in sacks, Poz was not, Hawk surely had more QB hurries than Poz. If you wanna count special teams, Hawk had a blocked punt return for a TD, again, Poz did not have a blocked punt nor did he score a TD this year. I don't agree that because PSU beat OSU that you can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that PSU's defense played better. Troy Smith was horrible that game and threw an unforced INT into triple coverage that gave PSU the ball at the 2 yard line and essentially was the difference in the game. OSU's defense led the Big Ten in 3 and outs which is why Hawk played fewer plays, yet was still able to put up better numbers. Anyways, I'm really starting to feel like I'm beating a dead horse here but it's pretty hard for anyone to logically look at the situation and justify Poz winning both the Bednarik and Butkus over Hawk. |
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12-13-2005, 12:01 PM
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#20 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 2,968
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Enough of the whiny OSU fan. I'm an OSU fan, and also the first person to stand by the decision giving the award to Pozluzny. Why? Maybe because I'm that rare breed of fan who genuinely doesn't give a crap about individual award and am only happen when my team beats Michigan and wins a big bowl game. When we crush Notre Dame I won't give a damn about who the game's MVP was. In fact, I hope Brady Quinn wins the MVP when he throws 60 passes for 300 yards and his team loses 41-24.
__________________
"The type and formula of most schemes of philanthropy or humanitarianism is this: A and B put their heads together to decide what C shall be made to do for D. The radical vice of all these schemes, from a sociological point of view, is that C is not allowed a voice in the matter, and his position, character, and interests, as well as the ultimate effects on society through C's interests, are entirely overlooked. I call C the Forgotten Man" - William Graham Sumner |
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