Konerko Inked

[TonyJ]

Originally Posted by Skipaway

The money supply in the MLB just increased a lot lately. With increase in money supply, you'll have inflation.

It's like if there are 10 dollars published in the world, with 10 breads you can buy, each bread would worth a dollar.

Now, the money supply suddenly increased to 20, each bread would worth 2 dollars.

You can't say "hey! you dumbass bought the bread for 2 dollars! I used to buy the same thing for one!"

But you can say "hey! you dumbass bought the bread for 2 dollars when you could have bought bread that was just as good for a dollar fifty!"

[darkhorse]

Originally Posted by Skipaway

Actually it is. We are talking about 2006 using 2005 universe.

Baseballprospectus said WARP1 is only good for comparing players in the same season.

Which is exactly why using WARP3, to measure the value of a player for a season, is ignorant.

[darkhorse]

Originally Posted by TonyJ

But you can say "hey! you dumbass bought the bread for 2 dollars when you could have bought bread that was just as good for a dollar fifty!"

Or a $1.18, as I recall the Skipster formulating.

[QuestGAV]

Originally Posted by darkhorse

Which is exactly why using WARP3, to measure the value of a player for a season, is ignorant.

Skipaway's problem here isn't using WARP1 vs WARP3, Konerko is probably worth 4-7 either way. The problem is that $12.5m is too much for a first baseman who is going to give you 4-7 WARP. I wholeheartedly agree with Skip's general point that you can't judge the new contracts by old values, but this contract is a bad one to try to make his point on. This is a 1b who they're paying top dollar to repeat his career year 5 years in a row as he goes into his 30s. You can't justify that, new math or old math.

[Urth]

Originally Posted by Joshv02

Konerko has never been and will never be as good as Thome. Konerko is Kevin F'ing Millar! Fat, slow, loopy swing, fastball hitter.

And, Hiksi was a bust, and never a good hitter in the minors.

(edit: ok, not really fat, but whatever!)

Well, Hinske spent 129 games in AAA, hitting 25 HRs in 436 AB.
Kotchman has spent 140 games in AAA, Salt Lake City, hitting 15 HRs in 562 AB. Kotchman hit for a higher average.

Yes, after a successful rookie season, Hinske was a bust. That's my point.

[sebastian0622]

Originally Posted by Urth

Yes, after a successful rookie season, Hinske was a bust. That's my point.

But was his had fine?

[darkhorse]

Originally Posted by QuestGAV

Skipaway's problem here isn't using WARP1 vs WARP3, Konerko is probably worth 4-7 either way. The problem is that $12.5m is too much for a first baseman who is going to give you 4-7 WARP.

And who's much more likely to give you the 4 wins he's steadily supplied for the bulk of his career.

[AnotherAlias]

Originally Posted by darkhorse

The White Sox weren't going to win anything in 2006, and Kenny Williams is making sure, with deals like the one for Konerko, that anothertitle contender will be a long time coming.

You are wise and you know a lot of stuffs, but Nostradamus you ain't.

You probably said the same thing about the Sox winning the Series in 2005.

[mlyons]

Originally Posted by AnotherAlias

Dumb deal?

I don't know. I think I would rather defer to Kenny Williams and his skills as a General Manager, knowing that he's accomplished quite a bit (like winning a WS) before I would go along with the opinions of people on a message forum that haven't.

I don't think there were any better alternatives.

So, why the hell did they trade for Jim Thome?

EDIT: Despite my quoting AA, this is really directed towards everyone pointing out that the Sox didn't have any other 1B alternatives. Thome is a first baseman, after all.

[Urth]

Originally Posted by cinredsfan2000

Sean Casey | 1B 2005 Salary: $7,800,000
SPLIT G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB BA OBP SLG
Season 137 529 75 165 32 0 9 58 2 .312 .371 .423
Career 1081 4017 589 1225 256 11 118 605 15 .305 .371 .462


Paul Konerko | 1B 2005 Salary: 12 million
SPLIT G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB BA OBP SLG
Season 158 575 98 163 24 0 40 100 0 .283 .375 .534
Career 1123 3995 580 1115 196 5 210 692 4 .279 .349 .488

Not a lot of diffrence from what i can see to justify 12 mill a year for basically the same player.

I guess if you think that 2 singles and 8 doubles == 31 home runs, you may reach that conclusion. I'd be hard-pressed to say that they were basically the same player, though

[Urth]

Originally Posted by mlyons

So, why the hell did they trade for Jim Thome?

EDIT: Despite my quoting AA, this is really directed towards everyone pointing out that the Sox didn't have any other 1B alternatives. Thome is a first baseman, after all.

dola,
To upgrade at DH and 1st. To be rid of Carl Everett is worth a very high price.

Seriously, ( honestly, seriously ), there isn't a better hitter available than Konerko. The reason to have Konerko and Thome is to upgrade what is univerally understood to be an anemic offense. There aren't any better options in Chicago's system, at least for a year or two, and despite Darkhorse's endless supply of optimism, it isn't that easy to pluck an almost-ready-for-primetime prospect, who will immediately perform better than a 40-HR guy from the ether.

[TonyJ]

Originally Posted by Urth

I guess if you think that 2 singles and 8 doubles == 31 home runs, you may reach that conclusion. I'd be hard-pressed to say that they were basically the same player, though

I think he was refering to the OBP and SLG comparisons, which are indeed close (and actually favor Casey).

[Jason Moyer]

I can't believe anyone pays more than 10 cents for a loaf of bread.

I think arbitration cases are going to fun this year.

[mlyons]

Originally Posted by Urth

dola,
To upgrade at DH and 1st. To be rid of Carl Everett is worth a very high price.

Upgrading DH is easy. Anyone can DH; I'm not sure why teams seem to be hung up on only putting aging first basemen at DH. It's never a "hole", because teams always have someone available to play DH. So, they had Thome at first base locked up. Is Konerko a better upgrade over Thome than, say, Johnny Damon would be over whoever their new centerfielder is? Or Rafael Furcal/Nomar Garciaparra over Juan Uribe?

[AnotherAlias]

Originally Posted by mlyons

So, why the hell did they trade for Jim Thome?

EDIT: Despite my quoting AA, this is really directed towards everyone pointing out that the Sox didn't have any other 1B alternatives. Thome is a first baseman, after all.

Urth took the words right out of my keyboard.

Thome was hurt last year and might not be up to playing a full year at 1st, at least from what I've read. Williams decided against Thomas as DH and felt Thome fit the mold for what he was looking for. Williams decided a long time ago that he was going specifically for Thome. Even told Konerko on the flight back from the WS that he was going full-boat for Thome. Paulie loved the idea and the other pieces fell in place - the rest is history.

I would be looking for them to be in the WS next year.

Losing to the Cubbies, of course!

[AnotherAlias]

Originally Posted by mlyons

Is Konerko a better upgrade over Thome than, say, Johnny Damon would be over whoever their new centerfielder is? Or Rafael Furcal/Nomar Garciaparra over Juan Uribe?

Yes. He's a fan favorite.

Do you think that might possibly have any bearing upon this decision?

[TonyJ]

Originally Posted by AnotherAlias

I would be looking for them to be in the WS next year.

I wouldn't. Unless the huge number of Sox who had career years last season can somehow repeat the feat they will drop off to some extent. Of course, the off-season is not over yet, but they Sox had just about everything go right last season. That rarely happens two seasons in a row.

[TonyJ]

Originally Posted by AnotherAlias

Yes. He's a fan favorite.

Do you think that might possibly have any bearing upon this decision?

It shouldn't have, but of course it did.

[AnotherAlias]

Originally Posted by TonyJ

It shouldn't have, but of course it did.

The White Sox hurt to be noticed in a city that bleeds Cubby blue. To make a dent into that fanbase, they need player recognition. Signing a guy that the fans are warm to puts their arses in the seats. Or, so management is hoping for.

As we all know, a larger fanbase means more revenue and there wasn't a better option than making the fans happy by rewarding a player that had a decent post season and helped a team to win its first World Series in 87 years.

It makes good business sense to put fans in a ballpark that has been starving for fans, for years.

[TonyJ]

You know what really puts butts in the seats though? Winning baseball games. Fan favorites come and go, winning consistently is what will consistently draw people to the park.