What names would you like to see in OOTP:BM?

[jcurtis423]

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

So am I. Permission to use any of my name files or any derivative products from them is hereby withdrawn until you recant from this foolishness.

Name files need to be treated just as seriously as schedules and facepacks. What you're planning on doing is the equivalent of sticking Ronald McDonald photos in a historical facepack and I'm not having it. I've put in too much work on them to have someone crap all over my name file sets for the sake of fun and frivolity. They go in as I send them to you or they do not go in. It's that simple.

And you can't use the Japanese name set that Montoya sent you, either.

I agree. The name files are easy enough to edit. If someone wants to make sure their own name will pop up, they can check to see if it's in there and if it's not, they can add it themselves easily enough. I hope that you guys can come to an agreement here and Malleus' excellent name files can still be used for the new OOTP.

[Malleus Dei]

Originally Posted by battists

unless for some bizarre reason it doesn't match the level of quality of the Japanese names. I don't suspect that will be the case, given the quality of your Japanese names files, and the amount of dedication you have to accurate names.

The Hispanic set is every bit as good as the Japanese set. The Euro set (which, as I have posted before, is the European-derived U.S. name file set) will be even better than they are when it is finished. I have Euro 2.0 done and am using it in my own game, and it it is the best Euro set to date, but 3.0 (the version I will have completed next month) will be the ultimate. After 100+ hours of effort, I honestly do not think that it can be improved on.

[Malleus Dei]

Originally Posted by jcurtis423

I agree. The name files are easy enough to edit. If someone wants to make sure their own name will pop up, they can check to see if it's in there and if it's not, they can add it themselves easily enough. I hope that you guys can come to an agreement here and Malleus' excellent name files can still be used for the new OOTP.

Exactly. Almost anyone's name *will* come up. But no joke names will go in.

These are the "BU" surnames from Euro 3.0:

BUBB 1
BUCH 1
BUCHAN 1
BUCHANAN 26
BUCHANON 1
BUCHER 3
BUCHHEIT 1
BUCHHOLTZ 1
BUCHHOLZ 2
BUCHMAN 1
BUCHMAN 1
BUCHOLZ 1
BUCK 16
BUCK 3
BUCKELEW 1
BUCKERIDGE 1
BUCKHOUT 1
BUCKINGHAM 3
BUCKLAND 1
BUCKLE 1
BUCKLER 1
BUCKLES 2
BUCKLEY 16
BUCKLIN 1
BUCKMAN 2
BUCKMASTER 1
BUCKNELL 1
BUCKNER 12
BUCKSON 1
BUCKWALTER 1
BUCY 1
BUDA 1
BUDD 2
BUDDE 1
BUDDEN 1
BUDDLE 1
BUDGE 1
BUDGEFORD 1
BUECHE 1
BUEHL 1
BUEHLER 2
BUELL 2
BUELOW 1
BUETTNER 1
BUFF 1
BUFFINGTON 4
BUFFORD 1
BUFFUM 1
BUFKIN 1
BUFORD 5
BUFTON 1
BUGARIN 1
BUGBEE 1
BUGG 2
BUGGS 2
BUGLER 1
BUHL 1
BUHR 1
BUITRON 1
BUKER 1
BULFORD 1
BULGER 1
BULKELEY 1
BULKELY 1
BULKLEY 1
BULL 5
BULL 1
BULLARD 9
BULLEN 1
BULLER 1
BULLINGTON 2
BULLINS 1
BULLION 1
BULLIS 1
BULLIVANT 1
BULLMAN 1
BULLMORE 1
BULLOCH 1
BULLOCK 20
BULLUCK 1
BULMAN 1
BULMER 1
BULTER 2
BULWER 1
BUMBLE 1
BUMGARDENER 1
BUMGARDNER 1
BUMGARNER 3
BUMGARTNER 1
BUMP 2
BUMPERS 1
BUMPUS 1
BUNCE 1
BUNCH 11
BUNCOMBE 1
BUNDY 5
BUNGER 1
BUNKER 3
BUNN 5
BUNNELL 3
BUNNING 1
BUNTAIN 1
BUNTEN 1
BUNTIN 1
BUNTINE 1
BUNTING 3
BUNTON 2
BUNYARD 1
BURBACH 1
BURBAGE 1
BURBANK 2
BURBRIDGE 1
BURCH 14
BURCHAM 2
BURCHARD 1
BURCHELL 1
BURCHETT 4
BURCHETTE 1
BURCHFIELD 4
BURD 1
BURDEN 5
BURDETT 2
BURDETTE 4
BURDGE 1
BURDICK 5
BURDIKIN 1
BURDINE 2
BURDITT 1
BURDON 1
BURFORD 2
BURG 2
BURGAN 1
BURGE 4
BURGER 8
BURGES 1
BURGESS 31
BURGETT 2
BURGHER 1
BURGIN 2
BURGOIN 1
BURGOYNE 1
BURGUNDY 1
BURK 5
BURKART 1
BURKE 44
BURKES 1
BURKET 1
BURKETT 8
BURKEY 1
BURKHALTER 2
BURKHARDT 2
BURKHART 6
BURKHEAD 1
BURKHOLDER 3
BURKILL 1
BURKITT 1
BURKLEY 1
BURKS 13
BURLEIGH 1
BURLESON 4
BURLEY 3
BURLING 1
BURLINGAME 1
BURLINGTON 1
BURLISON 1
BURMAN 1
BURMEISTER 2
BURNABY 1
BURNAM 1
BURNARD 1
BURNELL 2
BURNER 1
BURNES 1
BURNESS 1
BURNET 1
BURNETT 23
BURNETTE 7
BURNEY 4
BURNHAM 6
BURNLEY 1
BURNS 65
BURNSIDE 4
BURPEE 1
BURPO 1
BURR 7
BURRAGE 1
BURRELL 9
BURRESS 2
BURRIDGE 1
BURRIER 1
BURRILL 1
BURRIS 13
BURRISS 1
BURRITT 1
BURROUGH 1
BURROUGHS 7
BURROW 3
BURROWES 1
BURROWS 6
BURRUS 2
BURRUSS 1
BURSE 1
BURSON 2
BURSTON 1
BURT 12
BURTCH 1
BURTON 46
BURWELL 2
BURY 1
BUSBY 7
BUSCH 6
BUSCHER 1
BUSE 1
BUSER 1
BUSEY 1
BUSH 36
BUSHBY 1
BUSHE 1
BUSHEL 1
BUSHEY 2
BUSHMAN 2
BUSHNELL 2
BUSHONG 1
BUSHWAY 1
BUSICK 1
BUSKIRK 1
BUSS 3
BUSSARD 1
BUSSE 2
BUSSELL 2
BUSSEY 3
BUSTARD 1
BUSTEED 1
BUSTER 1
BUSWELL 1
BUTCHER 8
BUTE 1
BUTERBAUGH 1
BUTLER 91
BUTLIN 1
BUTNER 1
BUTT 2
BUTTARS 1
BUTTERFIELD 5
BUTTERS 2
BUTTERWORTH 1
BUTTERY 1
BUTTLER 1
BUTTON 3
BUTTRAM 1
BUTTREY 1
BUTTS 11
BUTZ 1
BUXTON 3
BUZARD 1
BUZZARD 1
BUZZELL 2

[battists]

OK, I agree not to include names from the community, even if they are legitimate names, or edit your work in any way.

In exchange, please refrain from the sarcastic comments about my posts. I have in no way suggested anything negative about your work, and have commented that your quality of work is excellent and I would love to incorporate it into the game.

That my opinion of the criticality of the impact of the change we were discussing differs from yours should not make me a target for your high-handed criticism.

Thank you.

[jcurtis423]

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

Exactly. Almost anyone's name *will* come up. But no joke names will go in.

These are the "BU" surnames from Euro 3.0:

BUNCH 11

Heh. I wonder if Brady is a first name in the European set?

[GForce]

Originally Posted by battists

GForce, not sure if this was directed at me or not, but I'm not completely recreating anything from scratch. You can think of me as the collector of fine works of art. But, there is some work required, because frequencies need to be adjusted to be on the same scale, nationalities need to be researched, and decisions need to be made about things like, do we create one section for all Hispanic names, or do we break it into further detail, such as Latin American vs Continental/Spanish?

The only cases where I have recreated anything from scratch were primarily cases where I couldn't find any data (such as Norwegian names), or where the data I could find didn't have frequency data, and I could find census-based data that did.

Hope this helps!

Steve

Thanks for clearing that up. It sounded like (and perhaps it's my fault for looking through this thread pretty quickly) you were looking for suggestions from people for names to put in this names database.

Of course, this thread will now become about Mal and will die or be locked anyway, but good luck on your project.

GH

[battists]

If anyone else wants to participate, here are a few areas we're struggling to find accurate data:

- South Korean given names (difficult, because Korean given names are nearly unique)
- Indian (Asian, not Native American) names (given and surnames)

If anyone can track down some accurate information on these, let me know via PM or here.

Thanks!

Steve

[Long_Long_Name]

Two points:

I can help with the Canadian name file. As some of you know, about 20-25% of Canadians are French, it would be nice not to end up with players called Louis-Philippe Smoth, or Jerry Tremblay. Also, I know that there is a list out there of the 1000 most frequent names in Québec, which I could find easily if I was asked. It would be nice to have some sort of separation in the Canadian file so that the French first names are more frequent in Québec cities (and English in other cities - I know that this is probably hard to do... especially because some cities like Montréal or Ottawa are bilingual, just like Florida with Spanish), and that French first names don't get mixed up with English last names and vice-versa.

Markus satated that it would be possible to have fictional countries. What I'm asking is, will the database be open? Will it be feasible to change data? If not, how are fictional countries be possible?

[battists]

I would love your help with the Canadian (Canadien?) data. IMing you now...

[Malleus Dei]

Originally Posted by battists

OK, I agree not to include names from the community, even if they are legitimate names, or edit your work in any way.

Good. Moving on, if someone else wants to do the Korean name set I'm fine with that.

[disposableheros]

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

Exactly. Almost anyone's name *will* come up. But no joke names will go in.

These are the "BU" surnames from Euro 3.0:

BUNCH 11

[Malleus Dei]

Oh, and a word of warning: any set for India is going to be *very* difficult to do well.

[Malleus Dei]

Originally Posted by jcurtis423

Heh. I wonder if Brady is a first name in the European set?

I'll take Bunch out.

[disposableheros]

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

I'll take Bunch out.

now your playing god and fooling with the census data

[RBLwebguy]

From what I seen so far from Steve's work is really fantastic, and I assure you I am putting the same thought into it. The thread was meant for suggestions, not to start a flame war.

[GForce]

Originally Posted by disposableheros

now your playing god...

You DO know him, right?

GH

[theasfl]

question for you MD: you're clearly the most advanced in name databases, but is there anyway to break your databases down into nationalities individually?

I know you've done the European file already as a group which would still work well for the US, but is there anyway to create such a file for each European Country or the hispanic file by each hispanic country? Although Im not sure there are too many differences in the last names that come out of Latin America; aside from Brazil or any other CA/Carribean country with a different originating language, such as: Haiti, Aruba, & Curaçao.

I think the best way for the game's name files to be done is country by country considering each league has a country of origin; and being able to toggle each nation when the game is creating names would be ideal in my opinion.

Hopefully Im not missing something or misunderstanding something here, and I mean no disrespect by my suggestion.

[battists]

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

Good. Moving on, if someone else wants to do the Korean name set I'm fine with that.

Malleus, I found a great governmental census data set for South Korean surnames on the ROK web site, including frequencies, so I think we should be golden there. If you have any leads on Korean first names, that would be excellent.

From what I've read, South Korean names are frequently a combination of two characters, and that pride is taken in making them unique, meaning there will be no "John" there. I'll keep looking around for that, but any leads are greatly welcomed!

[jcurtis423]

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

I'll take Bunch out.

I understand your reasoning behind this (trying not to have any joke/funny names appear randomly), but on the other hand who would have ever thought there'd be a Milton Bradley or a Coco Crisp playing Major League Baseball?

[Malleus Dei]

Originally Posted by theasfl

question for you MD: you're clearly the most advanced in name databases, but is there anyway to break your databases down into nationalities individually?

I know you've done the European file already as a group which would still work well for the US, but is there anyway to create such a file for each European Country or the hispanic file by each hispanic country? Although Im not sure there are too many differences in the last names that come out of Latin America; aside from Brazil or any other CA/Carribean country with a different originating language, such as: Haiti, Aruba, & Curaçao.

I think the best way for the game's name files to be done is country by country considering each league has a country of origin; and being able to toggle each nation when the game is creating names would be ideal in my opinion.

Hopefully Im not missing something or misunderstanding something here, and I mean no disrespect by my suggestion.

What you are suggesting can be done, but there are some problems.

Not all countries have accurate/available census name data.

Many countries have "name overlap," and would have essentially the same name files.

Many countries have a substantial number of people of different nationalities in them and some are split between several dominant differently-named ethnic groups (e.g., Belgium and Flemings/Walloons).

I think doing it by major ethnic groups is the most cost-effective approach, but, yes, it sure can be done differently. I know that a good Scots name file set can be done, because I did one as a test last year.

If someone else wants to do name files differently, have at it, and good luck.