This guy really makes the easy plays look hard...

sebastian0622 · 10-28-2005, 03:35 PM

That's how I feel about Derek Jeter. Maybe I've been spoiled watching Rafael Furcal, but I see Jeter go like two steps to his right, backhand a ball, jump straight into the air and sidearm a rainbow to first that gets the runner by a half step, and I think, "WTF?"

Furcal would have scooped it, planted (on the ground!!!!) and thrown a line to first, getting the guy by 2 steps. It would have looked...boring.

I think the SS going into the hole, jumping, and throwing a rainbow to first is one of the most overrated plays in baseball. I mean, when it's necessary, and when it shows great range (like if the SS is in the OF when he gets the ball), then it's great. But I see SS's forcing this play. Jeter literally did this after taking a step towards the ball and backhanding it on the dirt, and they keep showing it over and over and over again on highlights...

KILLERBS24 · 10-28-2005, 03:44 PM

So you mean other SS's wouldn't have caught a ball at the foul line run another 20yds and dove head first into the stands for no logical reason. Jeter has been the most overrated player in the league for the last 10 years.

Jestor · 10-28-2005, 03:56 PM

I thought this thread was going to be about Joe Crede.

Hotblack Desiato · 10-28-2005, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jestor

I thought this thread was going to be about Joe Crede.

^^^^^^^^^

Morgan Ensberg's double play trumped all of Crede's fairly routine stops combined. The one time I saw him really need to extend and dive for a ball, it got by him.

Prior81 · 10-28-2005, 04:03 PM

Jeter is so overrated, he's underrated.

NCBeachBum · 10-28-2005, 05:07 PM

Jeter has very little lateral range in the regular season, especially to his left. For some reason, he can suddenly move in October every year, but for the 162 that get you there, he's nearly a stationary object. We'll see much the same in '06 out of Betemit, IMO.

marioh · 10-28-2005, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian0622

That's how I feel about Derek Jeter. Maybe I've been spoiled watching Rafael Furcal, but I see Jeter go like two steps to his right, backhand a ball, jump straight into the air and sidearm a rainbow to first that gets the runner by a half step, and I think, "WTF?"

Furcal would have scooped it, planted (on the ground!!!!) and thrown a line to first, getting the guy by 2 steps. It would have looked...boring.

I think the SS going into the hole, jumping, and throwing a rainbow to first is one of the most overrated plays in baseball. I mean, when it's necessary, and when it shows great range (like if the SS is in the OF when he gets the ball), then it's great. But I see SS's forcing this play. Jeter literally did this after taking a step towards the ball and backhanding it on the dirt, and they keep showing it over and over and over again on highlights...

You're spoiled, and you're right about Jeter.

That Furcal is one helluva defensive player, and that arm of his is a cannon.
It's not fair comparing the two. It's like comparing a Yugo with a Ferrarri.

JDOldSchool · 10-28-2005, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jestor

I thought this thread was going to be about Joe Crede.

That is, verbatim, what I was going to type.

dasperp · 10-28-2005, 11:57 PM

Agree that he's extremely overrated defensively (though he has improved), but think he doesn't get enough credit for his offense. He currently ranks 20th among active players in OBP, which makes him the leading middle infielder in that category, with Biggio the next one 15 points behind Jeter at .370. I personally think that Jeter's on-base ability makes him a more valuable hitter than Tejada, though his defensive deficiencies push him below Tejada overall. At this point, he is at worst the third-best SS in the league (behind Furcal and Tejada), and possibly the best (BP statistics seem to rate him as the best for this year). People may say Young is better, but he plays in a great hitter's park and his defense is even worse than Jeter's. I think he is vastly overrated by the baseball traditionalists (mainstream media), but is underrated by a lot of SABR-types.

NCBeachBum · 10-29-2005, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dasperp

Agree that he's extremely overrated defensively (though he has improved), but think he doesn't get enough credit for his offense. He currently ranks 20th among active players in OBP, which makes him the leading middle infielder in that category, with Biggio the next one 15 points behind Jeter at .370. I personally think that Jeter's on-base ability makes him a more valuable hitter than Tejada, though his defensive deficiencies push him below Tejada overall. At this point, he is at worst the third-best SS in the league (behind Furcal and Tejada), and possibly the best (BP statistics seem to rate him as the best for this year). People may say Young is better, but he plays in a great hitter's park and his defense is even worse than Jeter's. I think he is vastly overrated by the baseball traditionalists (mainstream media), but is underrated by a lot of SABR-types.

While I can agree with most of this, I have to add that Jeter at any point in his career isn't fit to carry the in-his-prime-Biggio's jock. Biggio has entered his decline phase, Jeter hasnt.... that's the only reason his OBP is 15 points higher.

darkhorse · 10-29-2005, 12:16 AM

And, ARod has still played the bulk of his career in middle infield.

NCBeachBum · 10-29-2005, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkhorse

And, ARod has still played the bulk of his career in middle infield.

Yup.... were I running the Yankees, he'd still be at short, Jeter would be at second, and I'd be looking for a 3B with all that money.

Faroo6 · 10-29-2005, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jestor

I thought this thread was going to be about Joe Crede.

Or Eric Byrnes

mlyons · 10-29-2005, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian0622

That's how I feel about Derek Jeter. Maybe I've been spoiled watching Rafael Furcal, but I see Jeter go like two steps to his right, backhand a ball, jump straight into the air and sidearm a rainbow to first that gets the runner by a half step, and I think, "WTF?"

Furcal would have scooped it, planted (on the ground!!!!) and thrown a line to first, getting the guy by 2 steps. It would have looked...boring.

I think the SS going into the hole, jumping, and throwing a rainbow to first is one of the most overrated plays in baseball. I mean, when it's necessary, and when it shows great range (like if the SS is in the OF when he gets the ball), then it's great. But I see SS's forcing this play. Jeter literally did this after taking a step towards the ball and backhanding it on the dirt, and they keep showing it over and over and over again on highlights...

It's no coincidence that the years he looked to me like he was doing that the most (2000-2003) also happened to be the worst defensive years of his career. To his credit, he seems to be cutting down on that move somewhat, although he still does it more than he needs to. At least he only seems to do it now when he's actually on the outfield grass, rather than on every play to his right.

CommishJoe · 10-29-2005, 09:58 AM

I would agree that Jeter would make a very good 2b. Maybe they will sign Furcal and finally move Jeter to 2nd

Heck, a guy can dream right??

mlyons · 10-29-2005, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CommishJoe

I would agree that Jeter would make a very good 2b. Maybe they will sign Furcal and finally move Jeter to 2nd

Heck, a guy can dream right??

I'd rather see them move Jeter to CF, Rodriguez back to SS, and sign someone like Bill Mueller to a short term contract for 3B. I've always thought Jeter would make a good CF.

10-28-2005, 03:35 PM	#1
sebastian0622 Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,465	This guy really makes the easy plays look hard... That's how I feel about Derek Jeter. Maybe I've been spoiled watching Rafael Furcal, but I see Jeter go like two steps to his right, backhand a ball, jump straight into the air and sidearm a rainbow to first that gets the runner by a half step, and I think, "WTF?" Furcal would have scooped it, planted (on the ground!!!!) and thrown a line to first, getting the guy by 2 steps. It would have looked...boring. I think the SS going into the hole, jumping, and throwing a rainbow to first is one of the most overrated plays in baseball. I mean, when it's necessary, and when it shows great range (like if the SS is in the OF when he gets the ball), then it's great. But I see SS's forcing this play. Jeter literally did this after taking a step towards the ball and backhanding it on the dirt, and they keep showing it over and over and over again on highlights...

10-28-2005, 03:44 PM	#2
KILLERBS24 All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 938	So you mean other SS's wouldn't have caught a ball at the foul line run another 20yds and dove head first into the stands for no logical reason. Jeter has been the most overrated player in the league for the last 10 years. __________________ Asterisked legacy: Barry Bonds, the greatest steroid user ever

10-28-2005, 05:07 PM	#6
NCBeachBum All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Topsail Island, NC, USA Posts: 1,049	Jeter has very little lateral range in the regular season, especially to his left. For some reason, he can suddenly move in October every year, but for the 162 that get you there, he's nearly a stationary object. We'll see much the same in '06 out of Betemit, IMO. __________________ And ain't that a shame, shame, shame Shame, shame, the way you do Oh, it's a shame, shame, shame Shame, shame on you

10-29-2005, 12:16 AM	#11
darkhorse Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: fort worth, tx Posts: 10,850	And, ARod has still played the bulk of his career in middle infield. __________________ "The Human Torch was denied a bank loan."

10-29-2005, 09:58 AM	#15
CommishJoe Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 5,238	I would agree that Jeter would make a very good 2b. Maybe they will sign Furcal and finally move Jeter to 2nd Heck, a guy can dream right?? __________________ Joe Success isn’t owned. It’s leased. And rent is due every day.

10-28-2005, 04:03 PM	#5
Prior81 Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 302	Jeter is so overrated, he's underrated.

10-28-2005, 11:57 PM	#9
dasperp Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 61	Agree that he's extremely overrated defensively (though he has improved), but think he doesn't get enough credit for his offense. He currently ranks 20th among active players in OBP, which makes him the leading middle infielder in that category, with Biggio the next one 15 points behind Jeter at .370. I personally think that Jeter's on-base ability makes him a more valuable hitter than Tejada, though his defensive deficiencies push him below Tejada overall. At this point, he is at worst the third-best SS in the league (behind Furcal and Tejada), and possibly the best (BP statistics seem to rate him as the best for this year). People may say Young is better, but he plays in a great hitter's park and his defense is even worse than Jeter's. I think he is vastly overrated by the baseball traditionalists (mainstream media), but is underrated by a lot of SABR-types.