Coaches, Managers and GM's

toanstrom · 11-18-2002, 07:47 PM

I think that you should be able to hire GM's and Managers just like you can with Coaches, it would give computer controlled teams a lot more personality.
Personality Traits:
GM's: are they guys who know how to use a lot of money and make big trades (Bob Watson, John Scherholtz) or guys who can find diamonds in the rough but maybe choke on the big move (Randy Smith).Do they value speed,pitching, power, obs, defense, avg, some combination of these? (For instance Dombrowski has said that he wants strong defense up the middle and power at the corners in Detroit)

Managers: Veterans or rookies? Can they scrap out wins with a crappy lineup(Cox, Alou) or do they know how to juggle talent and keep egos happy (LaRussa, Torre, Stengel) Motivational, good at Game tactics, a players manager or do they hate him (Baker v. Garner), do they pick favorites (this would obviously be tough). Do they like to hit and run, steal, focus on pitching and three run homer? Also how do they handle a pitching staff, do they use 4 or 5 starters, how do they manage the bullpen? In the 80's the bullpen was one of the many places where people tried a lot of strategies and were successful with them,LaRussa had specialists, Davey Johnson used two closers righty and lefty, the Royals used Quisenberry more as a stopper than a closer who would come in when he was most needed rather than when he could get a save and pitch multiple innings. (which is why he should be in the Hall but thats another story)

Hitting Coaches: Do they work better with veterans or rookies? Do they improve patience, power, contact, baserunning (maybe a seperate coach as some teams carry one)
Pitching Coaches: Simaler to hitting coaches, do they add an extra pitch to staff repitoire, improve control, stuff
These last two might be more detail than needed.

Minor league managers should also have specific areas that they are good at other than just the very basic hitting and pitching

Also, why are ANY of the coaches and managers NOT former players? General Manager is generally the only position not filled by fomer players but ALL of the coaches and managers were pro ballplayers, even if , like Earl Weaver, they didnt make the bigs. I know that some of the coaches are currently former players but it doesnt seem like its nearly enough of them. The guys who become coaches and managers should be guys who were leaders during their careers, and generally not the best players. This is generally how it has gone in history,
Great managers have been guys like Alou, Baker, Stengel, McGraw who were very good but not great ballplayers while Cobb, Williams and Hornsby both made bad managers. (way to pay attention to this trend and give Trammell the reins Detroit)

Also, they should have career stats of some sort:
GM's: Record, Titles won, Pennants won, All-Stars/Hall of Famers aquired.

Managers: Record, Titles won, Pennants won, maybe an anylsis like James does of the record v. expected record.

Hitting Coaches: Record, Titles won, Pennants won, team avg,ops,slg,ob

Pitching coaches: Record, Titles won, Pennants won, team era, whip

Minor league managers: Record, number of all-stars/hall of famers developed, number of quality players developed.

Success at one level should lead to another level, for example if a guy is a great batting coach (Don Baylor) he should be given a shot to manage. Same with a great pitching coach. They should also be able to manage in the minors, although that seems unlikely it does happen sometimes(Darrell Evans gave up being a roving instructor to manage a semi-pro team cause he thought it would get him a shot at managing in the bigs or high minors.) A Minor league manager should have the ability to either become a coach (Bruce Fields in DET) or a manager (Joel Skinner in CLE). Also manager who struggles could become either a hitting coach (Don Baylor) or a minor league manager.

Also I would like to see a few more postions added to the coaching staff. A bench coach (more managerial canidates and helps w intangibles) a baserunning coach, a roving hitting instructor, and simaler spots to help minor leaguers with pitching and defense.

Cole · 11-19-2002, 07:30 PM

That was a lot of good suggestions in one post...

I think those things would add a lot of depth to OOTP

chrisj · 11-19-2002, 11:58 PM

I like the GM idea. It would be interesting to see a difference in GMs, such as having some like Billy Beane or JP Riccardi, and others who may throw money around a bit more easily.

I guess I won't really add on anymore. I really do like all of those ideas though, and would like to see them make their way into OOTP.

Cyclone792 · 11-21-2002, 12:10 AM

Great suggestions, I pretty much agree with most of what you're saying except one off topic point: Ty Cobb was far from a bad manager. In fact, it's more or less the other way around in that Cobb was a pretty good manager. True, his team's never won a pennant in his six years as manager, but once you dig deep and find all the facts, it's easy to see his value as a manager was quite high.

sixto · 11-21-2002, 02:19 PM

STATS Inc has a whole category of stats called managerial tendencies. I think it might be cool to replicate these stats and put them in managerial profiles, if in fact each manager is programmed to have a certain style.

I second any and all suggestions to build up the depth of GM and manager AI, especially ways of making managers and GMs and coaches and scouts more individualized. It has a lot of potential - think of what it could mean for online leagues if managers had to be hired and fired, and if they had a fair measure of free will. You could give them guidelines on how to run the team, but it's their clubhouse, and your only recourse is to mess with their roster, which could make for a difficult relationship. Imagine an online league where team's managers let their owners know - directly or through the press - that they were unhappy.

jahwarrior6395 · 12-01-2002, 06:36 PM

totally agree with all the suggestions.

and i have one of my own. would it be possible to re-sign coaches, scouts, and minors managers? i can't stand finding an awesome scout or coach, have his contract run out and not be able to do anything about it.

Jimmy Jack · 12-02-2002, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jahwarrior6395
would it be possible to re-sign coaches, scouts, and minors managers? i can't stand finding an awesome scout or coach, have his contract run out and not be able to do anything about it.

Totally 100% agree.

webspinnre · 12-04-2002, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jahwarrior6395
totally agree with all the suggestions.

and i have one of my own. would it be possible to re-sign coaches, scouts, and minors managers? i can't stand finding an awesome scout or coach, have his contract run out and not be able to do anything about it.

I'll echo that, and I also love the idea of having the GM not being able to set the lineups as well as making all the deals. Normally the manager would take care of that. This way you'd have to worry about finding a manager that you agreed with.

Jimmy Jack · 12-10-2002, 12:52 PM

I'm not really sure about the manager idea as I like to be in complete control. Maybe if you we able to turn the option on and off. Getting back to the original suggestion, I would like to see coaches/minor league managers with a lot more variable attributes. It would then be up to you to decide which role their attributes best suit, instead of having the computer tell you. The coach and scout system in the Championship Manager series is probably the perfect model for this.

11-18-2002, 07:47 PM	#1
toanstrom Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 277	Coaches, Managers and GM's I think that you should be able to hire GM's and Managers just like you can with Coaches, it would give computer controlled teams a lot more personality. Personality Traits: GM's: are they guys who know how to use a lot of money and make big trades (Bob Watson, John Scherholtz) or guys who can find diamonds in the rough but maybe choke on the big move (Randy Smith).Do they value speed,pitching, power, obs, defense, avg, some combination of these? (For instance Dombrowski has said that he wants strong defense up the middle and power at the corners in Detroit) Managers: Veterans or rookies? Can they scrap out wins with a crappy lineup(Cox, Alou) or do they know how to juggle talent and keep egos happy (LaRussa, Torre, Stengel) Motivational, good at Game tactics, a players manager or do they hate him (Baker v. Garner), do they pick favorites (this would obviously be tough). Do they like to hit and run, steal, focus on pitching and three run homer? Also how do they handle a pitching staff, do they use 4 or 5 starters, how do they manage the bullpen? In the 80's the bullpen was one of the many places where people tried a lot of strategies and were successful with them,LaRussa had specialists, Davey Johnson used two closers righty and lefty, the Royals used Quisenberry more as a stopper than a closer who would come in when he was most needed rather than when he could get a save and pitch multiple innings. (which is why he should be in the Hall but thats another story) Hitting Coaches: Do they work better with veterans or rookies? Do they improve patience, power, contact, baserunning (maybe a seperate coach as some teams carry one) Pitching Coaches: Simaler to hitting coaches, do they add an extra pitch to staff repitoire, improve control, stuff These last two might be more detail than needed. Minor league managers should also have specific areas that they are good at other than just the very basic hitting and pitching Also, why are ANY of the coaches and managers NOT former players? General Manager is generally the only position not filled by fomer players but ALL of the coaches and managers were pro ballplayers, even if , like Earl Weaver, they didnt make the bigs. I know that some of the coaches are currently former players but it doesnt seem like its nearly enough of them. The guys who become coaches and managers should be guys who were leaders during their careers, and generally not the best players. This is generally how it has gone in history, Great managers have been guys like Alou, Baker, Stengel, McGraw who were very good but not great ballplayers while Cobb, Williams and Hornsby both made bad managers. (way to pay attention to this trend and give Trammell the reins Detroit) Also, they should have career stats of some sort: GM's: Record, Titles won, Pennants won, All-Stars/Hall of Famers aquired. Managers: Record, Titles won, Pennants won, maybe an anylsis like James does of the record v. expected record. Hitting Coaches: Record, Titles won, Pennants won, team avg,ops,slg,ob Pitching coaches: Record, Titles won, Pennants won, team era, whip Minor league managers: Record, number of all-stars/hall of famers developed, number of quality players developed. Success at one level should lead to another level, for example if a guy is a great batting coach (Don Baylor) he should be given a shot to manage. Same with a great pitching coach. They should also be able to manage in the minors, although that seems unlikely it does happen sometimes(Darrell Evans gave up being a roving instructor to manage a semi-pro team cause he thought it would get him a shot at managing in the bigs or high minors.) A Minor league manager should have the ability to either become a coach (Bruce Fields in DET) or a manager (Joel Skinner in CLE). Also manager who struggles could become either a hitting coach (Don Baylor) or a minor league manager. Also I would like to see a few more postions added to the coaching staff. A bench coach (more managerial canidates and helps w intangibles) a baserunning coach, a roving hitting instructor, and simaler spots to help minor leaguers with pitching and defense. Last edited by toanstrom; 11-18-2002 at 07:58 PM.

11-19-2002, 11:58 PM	#3
chrisj All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Edmonton, Alberta (but still wishing I was in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada) Posts: 834	I like the GM idea. It would be interesting to see a difference in GMs, such as having some like Billy Beane or JP Riccardi, and others who may throw money around a bit more easily. I guess I won't really add on anymore. I really do like all of those ideas though, and would like to see them make their way into OOTP. __________________ Canadian Baseball League -- Commissioner -- Calgary GM

11-21-2002, 12:10 AM	#4
Cyclone792 All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 572	Great suggestions, I pretty much agree with most of what you're saying except one off topic point: Ty Cobb was far from a bad manager. In fact, it's more or less the other way around in that Cobb was a pretty good manager. True, his team's never won a pennant in his six years as manager, but once you dig deep and find all the facts, it's easy to see his value as a manager was quite high. __________________ Jason POTD: Co-Commish and Glacier Bay Ice Pirates

12-01-2002, 06:36 PM	#6
jahwarrior6395 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: sc Posts: 23	totally agree with all the suggestions. and i have one of my own. would it be possible to re-sign coaches, scouts, and minors managers? i can't stand finding an awesome scout or coach, have his contract run out and not be able to do anything about it. __________________ within all of us is an emptiness, a hole that only God can fill.

11-19-2002, 07:30 PM	#2
Cole Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Fredericton, New Brunswick Posts: 2,685	That was a lot of good suggestions in one post... I think those things would add a lot of depth to OOTP

11-21-2002, 02:19 PM	#5
sixto Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,262	STATS Inc has a whole category of stats called managerial tendencies. I think it might be cool to replicate these stats and put them in managerial profiles, if in fact each manager is programmed to have a certain style. I second any and all suggestions to build up the depth of GM and manager AI, especially ways of making managers and GMs and coaches and scouts more individualized. It has a lot of potential - think of what it could mean for online leagues if managers had to be hired and fired, and if they had a fair measure of free will. You could give them guidelines on how to run the team, but it's their clubhouse, and your only recourse is to mess with their roster, which could make for a difficult relationship. Imagine an online league where team's managers let their owners know - directly or through the press - that they were unhappy.

12-10-2002, 12:52 PM	#9
Jimmy Jack Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 117	I'm not really sure about the manager idea as I like to be in complete control. Maybe if you we able to turn the option on and off. Getting back to the original suggestion, I would like to see coaches/minor league managers with a lot more variable attributes. It would then be up to you to decide which role their attributes best suit, instead of having the computer tell you. The coach and scout system in the Championship Manager series is probably the perfect model for this.