Overachiever, anomaly or WTF

jtg · 10-05-2005, 01:24 PM

I'm relatively new to OOTP (in the third season of my first league, playing out all games), so I'd like to get your take on this.

I landed Maggard, a 4 blue-star CF with 60s across the board, in the initial draft, and he had a respectable season for me, hitting .295 with 13 HRs. (The league average is .279, and homers are low, with league leaders hitting around 30.)

During spring training before the second season, he tore a rib cage muscle and had to sit out the entire year. Here's where it gets interesting.

I had to delve down to AA and elevate Rode, a 6th-round pick from the first-year, mid-season amateur draft. I assumed this was a short-term solution, since his talent was 5/2/4 with ratings of 48/16/23. But the little guy went on to hit .340 in 394 ABs with a semi-respectable OBP of .363 (league average of .330 OBP).

Third season rolls around, and Maggard is still sidelined for the first month or so. In the meantime, Rode is hitting .400 or better. Maggard is finally cleared to play, but I don't have it in me to just turn the starting job over to him. I have the two splitting time (they're both lefties, unfortunately), but since Rode is still tearing it up, he's getting the lion's share, and Maggard is scuffling along at about .250.

81 games into the season, Rode is hitting .378 in 243 ABs with a .403 OBP and .441 slugging percentage. Yet his ratings are only 51/16/26.

So what gives? Can he keep it up, despite his meager talent levels? Or am I better off trading him while he's hot and turning the job back over to Maggard? Or do I trade Maggard and keep the overachiever Rode?

Organization-wide, I'm in pretty good shape for talent. The Big League club is winning at a .603 clip and is 1 game out of first, and there's plenty of good stuff on the way up. So I don't feel as if I have to make a move, but it bugs me to have a guy with Maggard's talent on the bench. Almost as much as it would bug me to bench a .380 hitter ...

Ideas? Insight? Help?

Sublimity · 10-05-2005, 02:32 PM

Can you throw one of them into the corner outfield spots? Even if they don't have a range factor there, you could always "teach" them the position with the editor (since in MLB they would have some ability to play all the outfield spots).

Mike Donlin · 10-05-2005, 03:20 PM

My hunch is Rode will fall back to earth eventually, sooner rather than later. So if you play in a league where the AI values stats fairly highly, equal to or better than ratings, for example, then I would trade him now. Immediately.

Some players do perform above their heads, but this guy isn't even that good, so even above his head is not going to be too much better than replacement level.
Keep us updated, though.

jtg · 10-05-2005, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sublimity

Can you throw one of them into the corner outfield spots? Even if they don't have a range factor there, you could always "teach" them the position with the editor (since in MLB they would have some ability to play all the outfield spots).

That would be the obvious solution. The "problem" is, I have two All-Stars already manning the corner outfield posts! Plus another rookie OF with tremendous ratings, and another rookie OF with very high ratings. Both are on the active roster and hitting over .330.

Good idea though.

(Although even if I had an opening and was inclined to move Rode or Maggard to a corner, I would take the penaly of playing them out of position until they earned a rating. I haven't had to resort to the editor option yet, and hope I don't.)

Sublimity · 10-05-2005, 03:58 PM

So you have a CF who's a lifetime .350+ hitter, another one with tremendous ratings, and two All-Star caliber corner outfielders? Boy, what an unenviable position...

How about playing with three infielders? Just get a really really fast 2B/SS.

endgame · 10-05-2005, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Donlin

My hunch is Rode will fall back to earth eventually, sooner rather than later. So if you play in a league where the AI values stats fairly highly, equal to or better than ratings, for example, then I would trade him now. Immediately.

Some players do perform above their heads, but this guy isn't even that good, so even above his head is not going to be too much better than replacement level.
Keep us updated, though.

I'm pretty much with Donlin on this one, but a bit more crossroads. Trading him to a team with a defecit would perhaps allow him the playing time and future I'd hoped for him on my own team. The other side of that is hoping I don't have to face him / step over him on my way to a finish. Unless of course it's to see him staring at me from the dugout with that spankin' clean uniform that never got to see an inning of play that day.

But yes, I agree, it's likely his momentum is shortlived given his ratings. What, if any, changes have occured in his ratings/talent ratings. Any? There is also a possibility he's growing into the role. How do their ages compare? And if the regular did seem to struggle getting back from that injury, what's your level of confidence he won't go down again or will see residual effect from it?

Keep us posted. Unexpected achievements by The Replacement is always a good story.

jtg · 10-06-2005, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sublimity

So you have a CF who's a lifetime .350+ hitter, another one with tremendous ratings, and two All-Star caliber corner outfielders? Boy, what an unenviable position...

How about playing with three infielders? Just get a really really fast 2B/SS.

Yeah, I know. I suck. But my team doesn't!

Actually, I'm in a better position than you stated. (I guess I didn't explain myself well earlier.) I actually have 5 OFers with tremendous talent (OK, 4 tremendous and 1 very, very good). Rode, the guy in question here, the .350 lifetime hitter as you referred to him, is the odd man out. He's 6th on the totem pole.

Oh yeah, I've got a two-time All-Star at 1B, too.

Sublimity · 10-06-2005, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtg

Yeah, I know. I suck. But my team doesn't!

Actually, I'm in a better position than you stated. (I guess I didn't explain myself well earlier.) I actually have 5 OFers with tremendous talent (OK, 4 tremendous and 1 very, very good). Rode, the guy in question here, the .350 lifetime hitter as you referred to him, is the odd man out. He's 6th on the totem pole.

Oh yeah, I've got a two-time All-Star at 1B, too.

Ok, then go with two infielders, and rotate the outfielders.

Dan Theman · 10-06-2005, 11:12 AM

I'd stick at least one at first, if possible. First base is a relatively easy position to be trained in, so if you already have a decent one then you could trade him for prospects or to shore up another weakness (although it sounds like your team routinely wins 130+ games a season, so there likely aren't too many "weaknesses"

).

Vezna31 · 10-06-2005, 01:49 PM

I'd have to go with rotating them until one of them cools off, most likely being the guy from double-A. Even though your .350 guy is hitting .295, he will probably make a comeback before the end of the year to raise that while the other guy slides.

Comedian2004 · 10-06-2005, 02:45 PM

I have a player with a 90 contact rating that is surfing the Mendoza line and only hit .263 last year.

Do you want to trade?

jtg · 10-07-2005, 01:18 AM

Apparently writing about Rode has the same effect as talking about a no-no in progress. Almost immediately after I started this thread, he went into the tank, and his average quickly plummetted from the .380s to .350. This from a guy who was steady as a rock for the better part of two years.

As Rode posted another 0-fer in a particularly ugly stretch (4-for-34), I had already decided to turn the job back over to Maggard. He made the decision even easier after pinch-hitting a two-run homer with two outs in the bottom of the ninth to bring us back from a one-run deficit. In his next five games as the starter, Maggard is 8-for-25 with 2 more HRs.

Rode? Well, my league's trade setting is 70-15-10-5 in favor of ratings. I shopped him around, and was surprised to be offered a couple aged sluggers and a few slightly better than borderline regulars, none of whom I needed. I ended up packaging him with a 30-year-old middling MR and a career AAA shortstop and sent them to the Birmingham Barons for a couple 'spects. The key acquisition is a 22-year-old 6/4/5 3B with good glove and blazing speed who's hit .325 in 320 big-league ABs over two seasons. (At the risk of sounding tiresome, I already have an All-Star 3B, so I can park this kid at AAA and let him mature.) I also got a 19-year-old SS in the trade. Both are rated 3 blue stars.

And the fans in St. Paul? Were they up in arms after I sent Rode packing after his gritty performance the last two years? Nope. They howled because I traded the MR, who hadn't been in the big leagues for more than a year.

jtg · 10-07-2005, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Theman

I'd stick at least one at first, if possible. First base is a relatively easy position to be trained in, so if you already have a decent one then you could trade him for prospects or to shore up another weakness (although it sounds like your team routinely wins 130+ games a season, so there likely aren't too many "weaknesses"

).

I'm starting to feel like I don't have many weaknesses, but I didn't make the playoffs the first two years and I'm in a dogfight with the defending division champ this time around. I have a 1-game lead with about 50 to go, and we've been trading the lead back and forth over the last 50 games.

Remember, I had never played a single game of OOTP until after I conducted the initial draft. From watching how the computer had drafted during the test sims I ran while zeroing in my league totals (I'm shooting for a 1920s feel), I thought the AI overvalued pitching. I was wrong.

I concentrated on offense and youth in the draft (only had 2 guys in their 30s on the active roster the first year; I wanted my team to mature and hit its peak when some of the aging stars around the league were dropping off). I guess I didn't ignore pitching, I just didn't choose well with the picks I spent on pitchers.

I was respectable the first year, finishing second in a 6-team division. I scored plenty of runs, but my pitching sucked, especially the bullpen. It was even worse the second year, when my best starter (an 18-game winner) went down with a SEI in April and I quickly fell out of contention and sunk to the bottom of the division. I spent most of the season stockpiling pitchers throughout the organization, and finished the year with a hell of a run that saw us rise to third in the standings. Finished the season with something like a 20-5 run.

I traded some 'spects and young vets and landed a quality starter in the off-season and another about 1/3 of the way through this season. The bullpen is now rock solid, the offense is one of the best (although a couple guys are off their oats a little bit), and I'm winning at a .600+ clip. But the damn Nebraska Omahogs are breathing down my neck! We have the two best records in a 24-team league, and we're in the same division.

Great game, ain't it?!

(By the way, the one "cheat" I've allowed myself as a newb is leaving the trade difficulty set at the default, rather than at a more difficult level. I'll ramp that up when (if!) I ever make the post-season.)

jtg · 10-07-2005, 03:06 AM

In his first 3 games with Birmingham, Rode is 4-for-12 with a 2B and his first Major League HR.

They're batting him 5th or 6th! (He was strictly lead-off for me). Of course, the Barons do have the worst winning percentage in the league (.410).

jtg · 10-07-2005, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endgame

Trading him to a team with a defecit would perhaps allow him the playing time and future I'd hoped for him on my own team. The other side of that is hoping I don't have to face him / step over him on my way to a finish. Unless of course it's to see him staring at me from the dugout with that spankin' clean uniform that never got to see an inning of play that day.

What, if any, changes have occured in his ratings/talent ratings. Any? There is also a possibility he's growing into the role. How do their ages compare? And if the regular did seem to struggle getting back from that injury, what's your level of confidence he won't go down again or will see residual effect from it?

Keep us posted. Unexpected achievements by The Replacement is always a good story.

Always appreciate your thoughtful comments, Endgame. To answer a few of your questions: His ratings increased 6 points over about 1 1/2 years, split evenly between Contact and Eye. Talent remained the same. Maggard, the original starter, is now 26, while Rode is a year younger, I believe. Finally, Maggard's injury rating is still Normal, so I'm hoping there are no residual effects.

I didn't think I cared a lot about what happens to Rode. I was mostly interested in what I could get for him, although I sure did enjoy the job he did for me. Turns out I 'm glad to see he's got a starting job, and we'll get a chance to see what happens with him. He ended up going to a team that's in the same league, but a different division, so we'll be seeing him from time to time.

Hope he's not too upset ...

ctorg · 10-07-2005, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtg

In his first 3 games with Birmingham, Rode is 4-for-12 with a 2B and his first Major League HR.

They're batting him 5th or 6th! (He was strictly lead-off for me). Of course, the Barons do have the worst winning percentage in the league (.410).

Interesting. There must be something about the guy.

jtg · 10-07-2005, 04:12 PM

Maggard has continued to pick up the pace now that he's the everyday starter. Over the last 5 games, he was 9-for-23 (.391) with 2 HRs, and was hitting .272 on the year. And then ...

He slid into third and got dinged up. He's going to be sitting for a week, but at least it looks like he'll be staying off the DL. Good thing I'm deep in the OF.

Rode, meanwhile, is just 1-for-6 for Birmingham over the last 5 games. Looks like he was being used as a pinch runner or defensive replacement during that stretch. (He's fast, with 35 SBs for me during 1 1/2 years, but his defense is below average.)

And now my Saints are getting ready for a 3-game series against Rode and the Barons. Here's hoping he doesn't get any revenge against me. We're 20-13 since the All-Star break, but still trail the damn Nebraska Omahogs by 1 game with 44 to go.

Mike Donlin · 10-07-2005, 10:16 PM

Fascinating. I thought he would tank, but no one tanks outright. There is always room for drama. Baseball is a wicked sport.

P.S. Anyone remember Bo Hart?!?

jtg · 10-11-2005, 11:51 AM

Rode finished the season hitting .342 with a .374 OBP and .404 slugging in 374 ABs. He had about 100 ABs over the last two months of the season after I traded him. His numbers stayed pretty much level after the trade.

Maggard picked it up after becoming the everyday CF for me at the end of July, finishing with a .279 average, .346 OBP and .439 slugging in 280 ABs.

And my Saints? They finished 92-62, second best record in the league ... and missed the playoffs. I wound up 2 games back of the Nebraska Omahogs, who lost out in 7 games in the LCS to the eventual World Series champs.

Oh well, tomorrow is another year ...

kennkerp · 10-11-2005, 01:56 PM

Quote:

P.S. Anyone remember Bo Hart?!?

That's all I've been thinking of while reading this thread!

10-05-2005, 01:24 PM	#1
jtg Bat Boy Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18	Overachiever, anomaly or WTF I'm relatively new to OOTP (in the third season of my first league, playing out all games), so I'd like to get your take on this. I landed Maggard, a 4 blue-star CF with 60s across the board, in the initial draft, and he had a respectable season for me, hitting .295 with 13 HRs. (The league average is .279, and homers are low, with league leaders hitting around 30.) During spring training before the second season, he tore a rib cage muscle and had to sit out the entire year. Here's where it gets interesting. I had to delve down to AA and elevate Rode, a 6th-round pick from the first-year, mid-season amateur draft. I assumed this was a short-term solution, since his talent was 5/2/4 with ratings of 48/16/23. But the little guy went on to hit .340 in 394 ABs with a semi-respectable OBP of .363 (league average of .330 OBP). Third season rolls around, and Maggard is still sidelined for the first month or so. In the meantime, Rode is hitting .400 or better. Maggard is finally cleared to play, but I don't have it in me to just turn the starting job over to him. I have the two splitting time (they're both lefties, unfortunately), but since Rode is still tearing it up, he's getting the lion's share, and Maggard is scuffling along at about .250. 81 games into the season, Rode is hitting .378 in 243 ABs with a .403 OBP and .441 slugging percentage. Yet his ratings are only 51/16/26. So what gives? Can he keep it up, despite his meager talent levels? Or am I better off trading him while he's hot and turning the job back over to Maggard? Or do I trade Maggard and keep the overachiever Rode? Organization-wide, I'm in pretty good shape for talent. The Big League club is winning at a .603 clip and is 1 game out of first, and there's plenty of good stuff on the way up. So I don't feel as if I have to make a move, but it bugs me to have a guy with Maggard's talent on the bench. Almost as much as it would bug me to bench a .380 hitter ... Ideas? Insight? Help?

10-06-2005, 01:49 PM	#10
Vezna31 All Star Starter Join Date: May 2004 Location: Wherever My VPN says Posts: 1,986	I'd have to go with rotating them until one of them cools off, most likely being the guy from double-A. Even though your .350 guy is hitting .295, he will probably make a comeback before the end of the year to raise that while the other guy slides. __________________ Owner/Operator - Vezna Financial Services - Accounting and taxes.

10-06-2005, 02:45 PM	#11
Comedian2004 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: In a house in Saint Cloud, Florida. Posts: 7,085	I have a player with a 90 contact rating that is surfing the Mendoza line and only hit .263 last year. Do you want to trade? __________________ Like BLUES? Visit www.smokestacklightnin.com, you will LOVE it! New show every Monday!! New Blues HOF![/COLOR][/FONT]

10-05-2005, 02:32 PM	#2
Sublimity Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: This thread. Posts: 3,199	Can you throw one of them into the corner outfield spots? Even if they don't have a range factor there, you could always "teach" them the position with the editor (since in MLB they would have some ability to play all the outfield spots).

10-05-2005, 03:20 PM	#3
Mike Donlin All Star Reserve Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Life, friends, is boring. Posts: 840	My hunch is Rode will fall back to earth eventually, sooner rather than later. So if you play in a league where the AI values stats fairly highly, equal to or better than ratings, for example, then I would trade him now. Immediately. Some players do perform above their heads, but this guy isn't even that good, so even above his head is not going to be too much better than replacement level. Keep us updated, though.

10-05-2005, 03:58 PM	#5
Sublimity Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: This thread. Posts: 3,199	So you have a CF who's a lifetime .350+ hitter, another one with tremendous ratings, and two All-Star caliber corner outfielders? Boy, what an unenviable position... How about playing with three infielders? Just get a really really fast 2B/SS.

10-07-2005, 01:18 AM	#12
jtg Bat Boy Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18	Apparently writing about Rode has the same effect as talking about a no-no in progress. Almost immediately after I started this thread, he went into the tank, and his average quickly plummetted from the .380s to .350. This from a guy who was steady as a rock for the better part of two years. As Rode posted another 0-fer in a particularly ugly stretch (4-for-34), I had already decided to turn the job back over to Maggard. He made the decision even easier after pinch-hitting a two-run homer with two outs in the bottom of the ninth to bring us back from a one-run deficit. In his next five games as the starter, Maggard is 8-for-25 with 2 more HRs. Rode? Well, my league's trade setting is 70-15-10-5 in favor of ratings. I shopped him around, and was surprised to be offered a couple aged sluggers and a few slightly better than borderline regulars, none of whom I needed. I ended up packaging him with a 30-year-old middling MR and a career AAA shortstop and sent them to the Birmingham Barons for a couple 'spects. The key acquisition is a 22-year-old 6/4/5 3B with good glove and blazing speed who's hit .325 in 320 big-league ABs over two seasons. (At the risk of sounding tiresome, I already have an All-Star 3B, so I can park this kid at AAA and let him mature.) I also got a 19-year-old SS in the trade. Both are rated 3 blue stars. And the fans in St. Paul? Were they up in arms after I sent Rode packing after his gritty performance the last two years? Nope. They howled because I traded the MR, who hadn't been in the big leagues for more than a year.

10-07-2005, 03:06 AM	#14
jtg Bat Boy Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18	In his first 3 games with Birmingham, Rode is 4-for-12 with a 2B and his first Major League HR. They're batting him 5th or 6th! (He was strictly lead-off for me). Of course, the Barons do have the worst winning percentage in the league (.410).

10-07-2005, 04:12 PM	#17
jtg Bat Boy Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18	Maggard has continued to pick up the pace now that he's the everyday starter. Over the last 5 games, he was 9-for-23 (.391) with 2 HRs, and was hitting .272 on the year. And then ... He slid into third and got dinged up. He's going to be sitting for a week, but at least it looks like he'll be staying off the DL. Good thing I'm deep in the OF. Rode, meanwhile, is just 1-for-6 for Birmingham over the last 5 games. Looks like he was being used as a pinch runner or defensive replacement during that stretch. (He's fast, with 35 SBs for me during 1 1/2 years, but his defense is below average.) And now my Saints are getting ready for a 3-game series against Rode and the Barons. Here's hoping he doesn't get any revenge against me. We're 20-13 since the All-Star break, but still trail the damn Nebraska Omahogs by 1 game with 44 to go.

10-07-2005, 10:16 PM	#18
Mike Donlin All Star Reserve Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Life, friends, is boring. Posts: 840	Fascinating. I thought he would tank, but no one tanks outright. There is always room for drama. Baseball is a wicked sport. P.S. Anyone remember Bo Hart?!?

10-11-2005, 11:51 AM	#19
jtg Bat Boy Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18	Rode finished the season hitting .342 with a .374 OBP and .404 slugging in 374 ABs. He had about 100 ABs over the last two months of the season after I traded him. His numbers stayed pretty much level after the trade. Maggard picked it up after becoming the everyday CF for me at the end of July, finishing with a .279 average, .346 OBP and .439 slugging in 280 ABs. And my Saints? They finished 92-62, second best record in the league ... and missed the playoffs. I wound up 2 games back of the Nebraska Omahogs, who lost out in 7 games in the LCS to the eventual World Series champs. Oh well, tomorrow is another year ...