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Old 09-30-2005, 06:49 AM   #1
IatricSB
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So who is the next database guru

I think (but not positive) that I was the first to create modified Lahman databases in an attempt to fix some of the import problems plus a 2nd one based on career. Ankit jumped in when the next version of Lahman's DB came out and did a great job with his various databases but I don't believe he will be doing them in the future (OOTP burnout).

So who's the next database guy to step forward?
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Old 10-01-2005, 11:19 AM   #2
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new DB project

Funny you should ask, Iatric. Arod23 and I are just putting the finishing touches on a new DB. Ankit5 DB was the starting point for this project.

Major changes:
1. The War Years of 1942-1945 have been adjusted to a league average of the 4 years before and after the War. So all players who played during these seasons have now been adjusted. All players who missed seasons due to service in he military from 1942-1945 have had their missing seasons put back in based on their averages during the 4 years before and after the War. These modifications have been done to allow a smooth transition thru the 1940's when playing a career simulation using Iatric's Era Calculator. Without these statistics being modified you run into a whole slew of problems during the 1940s.

2. The careers of several players have been extended so that they debut at age 21: Jackie Robinson, Monte Irvin, Larry Doby, Luke Easter, Roy Campanella, and Minnie Minoso. These players did not have a full career in the major leagues due to segregation in baseball. Now they will have full careers. The missing years for these players were based on an average of what they accomplished until 1949 or their career average if they started their career after 1949. Warren Spahn now debuts in 1943 since WWII delayed his first real season until 1946.

3. All Union Association players of 1884 have been deleted, except for a handful who went on to have real major league careers.

4. All statistics are included thru the 2004 season.

5. We plan to release 2 versions o the DB - a regular version and a Career Average version just like Ankit did. The Career Average version is suggested for importing rookies in all subsequent seasons after you start a league with the regular version. The Career Average version now has a player's true career average based on his totals divided by seasons played, whereas in past Career Average DBs the totals were divided by season entires - meaning that if a player played 15 years but was traded twice in midseason, he will have 17 season entries instead of 15 thus making his actual career averages lower.

6. 25 Negro League players will now be part of the DB. These players will all debut at age 21, and their statistics will be based on players who are considered their major League Equivalents. This of course is not an exact science, but it is the best we can currently do. For instance, Josh Gibson will be a clone of Jimmie Foxx, and pop Lloyd will be a clone of Honus Wagner. The MLE were based on information and comparisons made on various Negro League Baseball websites, but primarily www.blackbaseball.com

Iatric, did you finish/release a new version of the Era calculator yet? I plan to make a specialized mlbactuals file for use with this new DB which will account for all the new Negro League players. I will adjust various season totals by finding the difference between the negro league players statistics and the replacement value of the average major league player for each season.
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Old 10-02-2005, 03:28 PM   #3
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the negro league players

Here is the list of negro league players we plan to include in the DB and the player they were cloned from:

Position Players
Josh Gibson - Jimmie Foxx
Buck Leonard - Johnny Mize
Bingo Demoss - Johnny Evers
Ray Dandridge - George Kell
Pop Lloyd - Honus Wagner
Turkey Stearnes - Chuck Klein
Oscar Charleston - Tris Speaker
Martin Dihigo - Pete Rose
Biz Mackey - Mickey Cochrane
Buck O'Neil -Mark Grace
Judy Johnson - Pie Traynor
Willie Wells - Arkie Vaughan
Mule Suttles - Ralph Kiner
Cristobal Torriente - Roberto Clemente
Cool Papa Bell - Lou Brock
Newt Allen - Frankie Frisch

Pitchers
Hilton Smith - Dizzy dean
Rube Foster - Lefty Gomez
Bill Foster - Herb Pennock
Smokey Joe Williams - Nolan Ryan
Bullet Joe Rogan - Dazzy Vance
Chet Brewer - Bob Feller
Leon Day - Bob Gibson
Ray Brown - Ted Lyons
Andy Cooper - George Ruth (pitching stats only of course)
Satchel Paige - custom
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Old 10-02-2005, 10:26 PM   #4
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Why not base Gibson off of Ruth, since that's who he's usually compared to?
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Old 10-02-2005, 10:46 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJolley
Why not base Gibson off of Ruth, since that's who he's usually compared to?
Chris Cobb's MLE's for Josh Gibson in the Hall of Merit thread at Baseball Think Factory were.....

.327 BA, .431 OBP, .595 SLG.

I believe his career MLE WinShares total was 468. Pretty decent catcher.
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Old 10-02-2005, 11:04 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJolley
Why not base Gibson off of Ruth, since that's who he's usually compared to?
I have always heard Gibson compared to Jimmie Foxx, not Ruth.
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Old 10-03-2005, 12:40 PM   #7
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I tried last year, but I got too busy with schoolwork and other things to finish. I got everything except the fielding done. It worked pretty well, too.
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Old 10-03-2005, 09:06 PM   #8
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This project sounds great keep us posted!
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Old 10-03-2005, 11:20 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkhorse
Chris Cobb's MLE's for Josh Gibson in the Hall of Merit thread at Baseball Think Factory were.....

.327 BA, .431 OBP, .595 SLG.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys3356
I have always heard Gibson compared to Jimmie Foxx, not Ruth.
You may be on too something. Jimmie Foxx's career baseline.

.325 .428 .609
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Old 10-05-2005, 10:24 PM   #10
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Another database is always a great thing! I am looking forward to checking this one out.
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Old 10-10-2005, 04:21 PM   #11
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DB update

Arod23 and I are finishing up the new DBs. I have had some cpu problems and have not had a chance to do some final edits. However, I think we will have it all completed by the end of this weekend and up for dload. I posted a list of Negro League players and their clones and have decided that Smokey Joe Williams should probably be a clone of Rube Waddell and Leon Day should be a clone of Hal Newhouser. If anyone has any other input on the Negro League player clones please post it. The only other players that I think could be changed are Martin Dihigo, Cool Papa Bell, and Buck O'Neill...and maybe Cristobal Torriente. The rest look pretty good to me.
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Old 10-16-2005, 12:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garlon
The only other players that I think could be changed are Martin Dihigo, Cool Papa Bell, and Buck O'Neill...and maybe Cristobal Torriente. The rest look pretty good to me.
Judging from what I have read, Martin Dihigo may have been the most talented man to ever play the game.
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Old 10-17-2005, 10:48 PM   #13
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Martin Dihigo was a great player for me in an online league once. Just thought I would share.
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Old 10-18-2005, 01:31 AM   #14
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Speaking of leagues, where's your 1993 league for OOTP6?
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Old 10-18-2005, 08:39 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malleus Dei
Speaking of leagues, where's your 1993 league for OOTP6?
Yes I am lazy...
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Old 10-19-2005, 03:42 PM   #16
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Stay Tuned new DB almost here

A little update. I have had some computer problems, but I think we will be launching the DB very very soon. Hopefully within the next day or two. All that is left to be done basically is to create the readme file for it and a new mlbactuals file for use with Iatric's Era Calculator. Arod23, who has done brunt of the work on this project, has a site to host it on.
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Old 10-20-2005, 01:58 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IatricSB
I think (but not positive) that I was the first to create modified Lahman databases in an attempt to fix some of the import problems plus a 2nd one based on career. Ankit jumped in when the next version of Lahman's DB came out and did a great job with his various databases but I don't believe he will be doing them in the future (OOTP burnout).

So who's the next database guy to step forward?
Isn't it right to wait until it can be compatible with the next version? I think the next challenge will be databases covering some of the minor leagues. I know there are encyclopedias available for the 3 AAA leagues, as well as the Texas League and the Southern Association. Imagine a Lahman type DB which can handle those for historical players.
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Old 10-20-2005, 05:34 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swampdragon
Isn't it right to wait until it can be compatible with the next version? I think the next challenge will be databases covering some of the minor leagues. I know there are encyclopedias available for the 3 AAA leagues, as well as the Texas League and the Southern Association. Imagine a Lahman type DB which can handle those for historical players.
A group of us in the Mods forum tried to start something to at least gather the stats for the AAA level of the minors for a few seasons. We got a couple of PCL seasons done, then the board crash came and it seems a lot of participants went with it. Of course, I haven't helped by not restarting the topic either.

All I know is, if I had a collection of TSN Guides, I'd be carefull tearing pages out and scanning them in to OCR the stats — it'd sure beat typing in all the stats for a given league and year. Even though it'd mean trashing the resale value of such a collection, getting the stats into digital form quickly would almost be worth it, in my opinion.

Last edited by Le Grande Orange; 10-20-2005 at 05:35 AM.
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Old 10-20-2005, 09:39 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange
A group of us in the Mods forum tried to start something to at least gather the stats for the AAA level of the minors for a few seasons. We got a couple of PCL seasons done, then the board crash came and it seems a lot of participants went with it. Of course, I haven't helped by not restarting the topic either.

All I know is, if I had a collection of TSN Guides, I'd be carefull tearing pages out and scanning them in to OCR the stats — it'd sure beat typing in all the stats for a given league and year. Even though it'd mean trashing the resale value of such a collection, getting the stats into digital form quickly would almost be worth it, in my opinion.
Jamie Marshall has a number of PCL seasons for DMB posted at his website, APFAS, as well as several Japanese League seasons and some other miscellaneous efforts. I believe the Strat sites also have minor league seasons. Presumably those would contain actual stats for those years.
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Old 10-20-2005, 02:36 PM   #20
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the readme file

I think we just finished the DB. Arod23 will get it up for dload on his site when he gets a chance.

Here is the readme for the DB. Much like a previous post I made:

This database was created using AnkitDB5 as a base. Ankit's readme files have been included as well. Special thanks to Ankit for helping us with the programming code to create this new DB.

Like Ankit's DBs, it is suggested that you use the regular version of the DB to import your initial season when starting a league, then use the Career Average DB for importing all rookies in subsequent seasons.

Here is a list of changes we have made to the DB.

1. All Union Association players from 1884 have been deleted except a few who went on to have a legitimate career in the real major leagues. Those players are: Jersey Blakely, Tommy Bond, George Bradley, One Arm Dailey, Buttercup Dickerson, Fred Dunlap, Charlie Ganzel, Jack Glasscock, Jack Gleason, Jim McCormick, Dave Rowe, Orator Shaffer, Charlie Sweeney, and Billy Taylor. These are the 14 players Bill James considers legitimate major leaguers from the Union association in "The New Baseball Historical Abstract" pg 29.

2. Added birthdays for all players missing them. This mostly affects pre-1900 players. These players now debut at age 22.

3. Updated the database to include 2003 and 2004 statistics for all active players and added new players debuting in 2003 and 2004.

4. Added outfielding stats from 1995-2002 which were missing from the original Lahman DB.

5. Modified all player stats during WWII 1942-1945 to an average of the four years before and after the war (1938-1941 and 1946-1949). This was done to account for the fact that in OOTP players do not miss seasons due to military service, nor do we want them to. Any players who missed seasons between 1942-1945 due to military service have had pro-rated seasons put back into their careers based on an average of how they performed between 1938-1949, including any modified years between 1942-1945 in which they did play.

6. Extended the careers of Jackie Robinson, Larry Doby, Monte Irvin, Roy Campanella, Minnie Minoso, and Luke Easter so that they now debut at age 21. Their missing seasons were based on their career average through 1949 when possible, otherwise the player's career average was used to replace his missing seasons. This was done because these players did not have a chance for a full major league career due to segregation in baseball.

7. Warren Spahn debut year has been changed to 1943 since he missed 1943-1945 due to military service. Babe Ruth, the hitter, now debuts in 1916 instead of 1918.

8. The Career Average version of the DB is much like Ankit's, except that in this DB career totals were divided by seasons played, rather than career totals divided by season entries (which can be more than the number of years played for players who were traded during a season). This results in somewhat more accurate totals for players.

9. Added 25 Negro League Players to the DB, plus Satchel Paige who only played a couple seasons in the major leagues. These players are clones of actual major league players who they have been compared to. These players all debut at age 21 and have been given 15-year careers in the DB. Listed are the players, their database id, their debut year, and the player they were cloned from. They are:

Josh Gibson, gibsojo09, 1933, Jimmie Foxx
Buck Leonard, leonabu09, 1929, Johnny Mize
Bingo DeMoss, demosbi09, 1911, Johnny Evers
Ray Dandridge, dandrra09, 1935, George Kell
Pop Lloyd, lloydpo09, 1906, Honus Wagner
Turkey Stearnes, steartu09, 1923, Chuck Klein
Oscar Charleston, charlos09, 1918, Tris Speaker
Martin Dihigo, dihigma09, 1927, Pete Rose
Biz Mackey, mackebi09, 1919, Mickey Cochrane
Buck O'Neil, oneilbu09, 1933, Mark Grace
Judy Johnson, johnsju09, 1921, Pie Traynor
Willie Wells, wellswi09, 1927, Arkie Vaughan
Mule Suttles, suttlmu09, 1922, Ralph Kiner
Cristobal Torriente, torricr09, 1933, Roberto Clemente
Cool Papa Bell, bellco09, 1925, Lou Brock
Newt Allen, allenne09, 1923, Frankie Frisch
Hilton Smith, smithhi09, 1933, Dizzy Dean
Rube Foster, fosteru09, 1901, Lefty Gomez
Bill Foster, fostebi09, 1926, Herb Pennock
Smokey Joe Williams, willism09, 1907, Rube Waddell
Bullet Joe Rogan, roganbu09, 1911, Dazzy Vance
Chet Brewer, brewech09, 1928, Bob Feller
Leon Day, dayle09, 1938, Hal Newhouser
Ray Brown, brownra09, 1929, Ted Lyons
Andy Cooper, coopean09, 1918, George Ruth
Satchel Paige, paigesa09, 1928, custom

10. Also included is a custom MLBactuals.txt file made for iatric's Era Calculator when using this DB since it has adjusted totals to account for the addition of the Negro League Players and the extended careers of other players. This is for use with Iatric's Era Calculator program, just replace the original MLBactuals.txt file in the Era calculator folder with this one.
For those who want to start a league before 1900, there is also a file called MLBActualsplus100.txt. This file has 100 years added to the actual year of all seasons, for example 1876 is now listed as 1976 and 2001 is now 2101. This is done as a work-around since the Era Calculator will not allow you to start a league before 1901. OOTP also does not allow you to directly start a league before 1901, but you can start a custom league in 1875,then play thru the season and delete all players, then when you move to 1876 OOTP will prompt you for the DB to import rookies (use the reg DB for importing rookies in 1876 if you plan to do this, and then use the Career AVG version for all subsequent seasons). Note, the Era Calculator does not have any initialization ratings after 1950, so what you will need to do is edit the initratings file in the Era calculator folder and manually input the totals for the year 1976 (which will actually be 1876). So for example, when you are playing OOTP the year might be 1883 in your league, but 1983 in the Era Calculator, but the actual totals the calculator will be working with are the ones from 1883.
A starter 1876 file with instructions will also be made available.

Created by Arod23, Garlon, and Ankit of the OOTP message board forums.
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