20 game Suspension for Kenny Rogers!!

[KurtBevacqua]

I'm surprised that a lot of people have expressed sympathy for Rogers. If the cameraman were doing this in the parking lot or a restaraunt and kept filming after Rogers politely asks him to stop then I'd understand. But sorry dude, on the field is fair game. It kinda goes with the whole major league ballplayer and million dollar contract deal. On the field they can film and take as many pics as they want as long as they don't interfere, and as near as I can tell this guy wasn't interfering. If you don't want your pic taken on the field, even at practice, then maybe it's time to seriously consider a career change.

[tim_uwrf]

Originally Posted by KurtBevacqua

I'm surprised that a lot of people have expressed sympathy for Rogers. If the cameraman were doing this in the parking lot or a restaraunt and kept filming after Rogers politely asks him to stop then I'd understand. But sorry dude, on the field is fair game. It kinda goes with the whole major league ballplayer and million dollar contract deal. On the field they can film and take as many pics as they want as long as they don't interfere, and as near as I can tell this guy wasn't interfering. If you don't want your pic taken on the field, even at practice, then maybe it's time to seriously consider a career change.

I wonder how he likes those cameramen that tape the game...

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by KurtBevacqua

I'm surprised that a lot of people have expressed sympathy for Rogers. If the cameraman were doing this in the parking lot or a restaraunt and kept filming after Rogers politely asks him to stop then I'd understand. But sorry dude, on the field is fair game.

Not only that, but for the cameramen to be on the field they have to be allowed by the club and/or stadium officials. It's not like anyone can waltz onto the field and take pictures whenever they want.

Those news video cameras (or E.N.G. cameras as they used to be known) are expensive pieces of equipment, something in the area of $30,000-$40,000 each. I can't but help wonder if either of the television stations involved is thinking about suing for damages if either of the cameras were damaged by Rogers during his tirade.

[eswan9]

Looks like Kenny Rogers is going to the All Star game:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/allsta...ory?id=2105087
I would still want hazard pay if I am working the ASG.

[darkhorse]

Rogers suspension is well-earned but the reaction has been overwrought by both media and fans. As far as violence goes, shoving a camera off a man's shoulder is tepid.

I'm happy he's going to the All-Star game. With Halladay blasted into submission, it will be nice to see Roy's only current competition for the AL Cy Young on the mound with WS homefield advantage on the line. Rogers is having a monster season, the best of his career, and the invite is well deserved.

[GoCubsAndJays]

Originally Posted by darkhorse

Rogers suspension is well-earned but the reaction has been overwrought by both media and fans. As far as violence goes, shoving a camera off a man's shoulder is tepid.

I'm happy he's going to the All-Star game. With Halladay blasted into submission, it will be nice to see Roy's only current competition for the AL Cy Young on the mound with WS homefield advantage on the line. Rogers is having a monster season, the best of his career, and the invite is well deserved.

I don't know. I think Buerhle becomes the frontrunner for the Cy Young with Halladay taken out of the picture.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by darkhorse

Rogers suspension is well-earned but the reaction has been overwrought by both media and fans. As far as violence goes, shoving a camera off a man's shoulder is tepid.

Except, of course, for the fact that he's damaging a $40,000 piece of equipment, while someone was doing their job and while being allowed to do that job by the league, the team, and the stadium.

This is not a paparazzi thing where they were chasing him after he came out of some restuarant or something.

[darkhorse]

Originally Posted by GoCubsAndJays

I don't know. I think Buerhle becomes the frontrunner for the Cy Young with Halladay taken out of the picture.

Buehrle has been excellent, no doubt, but Rogers and Halladay have been a cut above anyone else in the junior circuit.

[darkhorse]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Except, of course, for the fact that he's damaging a $40,000 piece of equipment, while someone was doing their job and while being allowed to do that job by the league, the team, and the stadium.

Don't believe I've read anything about damage to the camera. Camera makers know their product is going to take many spills. If it were damaged, Rogers will certainly have the means and motivation to expedite matters.

[GoCubsAndJays]

Originally Posted by darkhorse

Buehrle has been excellent, no doubt, but Rogers and Halladay have been a cut above anyone else in the junior circuit.

I don't see how Rogers has been better than Buerhle?

Rogers WHIP: 1.24
Buerhles WHIP: 1.10

W/L Record:

Buerhle: 10-3
Rogers: 10-4

ERA:

Buerhle: 2.58
Rogers: 2.54

Innings Pitched:

Buerhle: 136
Rogers: 113.1

Strikeouts:

Buerhle: 85
Rogers: 50

Walks:

Buerhle: 21
Rogers: 34


How is it that Rogers has been a cut above everybody besides Halladay?

[darkhorse]

Originally Posted by GoCubsAndJays

How is it that Rogers has been a cut above everybody besides Halladay?

Defense and park factors. Rangers defense is atrocious. Ballpark is a hitter's delight. White Sox have the best defense in the majors. Dunno how their park favors, but I'd guess the diff is significant.

Buehrle's DERA is 3.39 while Rogers is almost a full run lower at 2.45. WARP1 pegs Rogers at 6.0 wins above replacement level and Buehrle at 4.6.

[GoCubsAndJays]

Originally Posted by darkhorse

Defense and park factors. Rangers defense is atrocious. Ballpark is a hitter's delight. White Sox have the best defense in the majors. Dunno how their park favors, but I'd guess the diff is significant.

Buehrle's DERA is 3.39 while Rogers is almost a full run lower at 2.45. WARP1 pegs Rogers at 6.0 wins above replacement level and Buehrle at 4.6.

Ah, I tend not to look at those things, which is most likely why I felt that way.


Is the Rangers defense actually that bad though? When watching the Jays/Rangers game Friday, I thought I remembered them saying that the Rangers have committed the fewest errors in the AL.

Were the Jays broadcasters just incompetent as usual, or is it just that the Rangers players have terrible range factors or something along these lines?

[darkhorse]

Originally Posted by GoCubsAndJays

Is the Rangers defense actually that bad though? When watching the Jays/Rangers game Friday, I thought I remembered them saying that the Rangers have committed the fewest errors in the AL.

Were the Jays broadcasters just incompetent as usual, or is it just that the Rangers players have terrible range factors or something along these lines?

'Tis true. But error rate, unless egregious, doesn't have a big connect with defensive quality.

Rangers broadcasters, like most in the bigs, don't criticize the product on the field much. Soriano and Young are the worst middle infield combo in the major leagues. Watching ground balls bleed through the middle is a daily occurrence. Soriano is a nightmare. Young is a second baseman sadly miscast on the short side.

[GoCubsAndJays]

Originally Posted by darkhorse

'Tis true. But error rate, unless egregious, doesn't have a big connect with defensive quality.

Rangers broadcasters, like most in the bigs, don't criticize the product on the field much. Soriano and Young are the worst middle infield combo in the major leagues. Watching ground balls bleed through the middle is a daily occurrence. Soriano is a nightmare. Young is a second baseman sadly miscast on the short side.

Ah, that would explain it then.

Yeah, I've heard that Young had bad range, never really knew for sure though.

[darkhorse]

Originally Posted by GoCubsAndJays

Ah, that would explain it then.

Yeah, I've heard that Young had bad range, never really knew for sure though.

If the ball is hit to Young's right, it's most likely outfield bound. He's Jeteresque in that regard. Derek's defensive performance has improved significantly since ARod's arrival, so I'd place Young as the worst glove at SS in the AL.

[GoCubsAndJays]

Originally Posted by darkhorse

If the ball is hit to Young's right, it's most likely outfield bound. He's Jeteresque in that regard. Derek's defensive performance has improved significantly since ARod's arrival, so I'd place Young as the worst glove at SS in the AL.

Is there any defensive calculation out there that takes both errors and range into account?

[darkhorse]

Originally Posted by GoCubsAndJays

Is there any defensive calculation out there that takes both errors and range into account?

There are some good defensive metrics out there. Baseball Prospectus uses RATE. UZR is another good metric.

[ihatenames]

Originally Posted by GoCubsAndJays

Is there any defensive calculation out there that takes both errors and range into account?

Most defensive calculations out there still require subjective analysis. Therefor none are end all accurate. I don't know if its possible to objectively rate range though. So the calculations Darkhorse listed are probably the best out there, and maybe the best there will be. I'd go into detail with the problems but thats for another thread.

[Falcon52]

I didn't read previous posts, so it's probably been said....

But I don't think Rogers got nearly enough games. 20 games on the face of it sounds like a lot, but he's a starting pitcher, which means he'd have only played about 4 of those games anyways, 5 tops. So therefore he's got himself a 5 game suspension in reality, and that isn't severe enough for what he did.

[darkhorse]

Originally Posted by Falcon52

So therefore he's got himself a 5 game suspension in reality, and that isn't severe enough for what he did.

LOL.

A 20 game suspension is the same for either an everyday player or a starting pitcher. Losing 4 of 32 starts is the same as losing 20 of 162.