George Steinbrenner: Hall of Fame?

DamnYankees · 07-08-2005, 12:09 AM

Alright, here it is. 30 years as the pre-eminent owner in baseball.

Pros: 7 World Series and he redefined the way teams are built by diving headfirst into free agency.

Cons: Do I need to list all the things bad about this guy?

What's the call?

BaseballMan · 07-08-2005, 12:22 AM

I say yes.
I am no fan of George, i wish small market teams could compete with him but
if i was on a team i would want him as an owner because i know he will do everything he can to help the team win. Yeah he is wrong sometimes but thats just like managers and players making wrong choices. Hey would you rather have a Charley O' Finley or that Marlins owner selling your best players after a championship.
What other owner has 6 world series titles, 10 world series apperances in this era?
Like him or hate him i dont think you can debate hes had the most influence on the game as an owner than any other owner in the last 30 years.

tim_uwrf · 07-08-2005, 12:26 AM

I think George is the devil. I think he is a horrible person for baseball.

With that said, no doubt in my mind he's a HOFer.

canadiancreed · 07-08-2005, 12:26 AM

you cnat argue at his will to win. goign on that he ='s like the ty cobb of owners, he'll go head first into winning, and be damned as to who he pisses off or plow over anyone that gets in his way.

on the minus side, this tatic and the free agent thing has basicalyl destroyed any chance for small market teams to compete for the foreseeable future

Jonzard · 07-08-2005, 12:44 AM

One of the best owners evah. I wish my owner wanted to win as bad as George does.

abailey3313 · 07-08-2005, 12:55 AM

I didn't even know owners could be Hall of Famers. But, if they can, then he is hands down a HoF'er.

I hate the man too, but his impact on the game is far too great to go unrecognized. You can hate his tactics and you can hate the way he runs a team all day, but at the end of it all, you can't really ignore the success he's had. Seven World Championships speaks volumes, regardless of how that feat was accomplished.

DamnYankees · 07-08-2005, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abailey3313

I didn't even know owners could be Hall of Famers. But, if they can, then he is hands down a HoF'er.

I hate the man too, but his impact on the game is far too great to go unrecognized. You can hate his tactics and you can hate the way he runs a team all day, but at the end of it all, you can't really ignore the success he's had. Seven World Championships speaks volumes, regardless of how that feat was accomplished.

The following owners are in the Hall of Fame:

Charlie Comiskey
Warren Giles
Clark Griffith
William Hulbert
Bill Veeck
Harry Wright
Tom Yawkey

abailey3313 · 07-08-2005, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamnYankees

The following owners are in the Hall of Fame:

Charlie Comiskey
Warren Giles
Clark Griffith
William Hulbert
Bill Veeck
Harry Wright
Tom Yawkey

Oh, well then there doesn't even need to be a discussion about whether or not Steinbrenner is in.

Jordan · 07-08-2005, 01:43 AM

There's not enough space to list what he's done to earn a HOF plaque.

Hell, even the bad stuff he did, like paying a guy to dig up dirt on Winfield, earns him comparisons to Comiskey, a HOF'er.

Easily, he'll get a plaque

ihatenames · 07-08-2005, 03:08 AM

Without a doubt YES

rudel.dietrich · 07-08-2005, 03:10 AM

He pales in comparison to what total dicks Comisky and Griffith could be.
Those two were more interested in making money than winning.
George cares about winning and little else.

Eckstein 4 Prez · 07-08-2005, 03:17 AM

I hate him, but I'm not even sure I could make a case against him with a straight face. Absolutely he gets in - no question. He's more of a slam-dunk than pretty much any of the guys who played for him.

sebastian0622 · 07-08-2005, 10:29 AM

I hate him, but he's no doubt a Hall of Famer.

draven085 · 07-08-2005, 10:35 AM

It'd be interesting to see if we'd even be having this discussion had Steinbrenner owned a team in Milwaukee or Kansas City. My guess is no.

Eckstein 4 Prez · 07-08-2005, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by draven085

It'd be interesting to see if we'd even be having this discussion had Steinbrenner owned a team in Milwaukee or Kansas City. My guess is no.

If the owner of Milwaukee or Kansas City had been the first to build a team largely out of free agency, and then won titles in 1977 and 1978 with it (along with pennants in 1976 and 1981), then had the whole thing fall apart, only to return to prominence in the late 1990s with another series of World Series wins, and was the most visible, involved, recognizable member of the front office, then yeah, I think it'd be just as much of a no-brainer.

Look at it this way: Mark Cuban isn't in New York or L.A., but still manages to grab a fair share of headlines. If, under his ownership, Dallas had two separate runs as a dynasty two decades apart, there's no question that he'd be a Hall of Fame basketball owner.

congobeast · 07-08-2005, 11:27 AM

The Boss has been no less bad for baseball than Pete Rose's gambling was.
Until Rose is in, I don't want Steinbrenner there.

/supports Rose in the HOF

draven085 · 07-08-2005, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eckstein 4 Prez

If the owner of Milwaukee or Kansas City had been the first to build a team largely out of free agency, and then won titles in 1977 and 1978 with it (along with pennants in 1976 and 1981), then had the whole thing fall apart, only to return to prominence in the late 1990s with another series of World Series wins, and was the most visible, involved, recognizable member of the front office, then yeah, I think it'd be just as much of a no-brainer.

The point behind my post, and I probably should've been more clear about this, is that I believe a lot of Steiny's success can be attributed to the market he happens to own his team in. It's unlikely that an owner in Milwaukee, Kansas City, or any other smallish market could ever do what Steinbrenner did, mostly due to the economic constraints of their natural market. While he certainly did a good job in New York I'm skeptical if he could have been successful without a naturally large market to work with.

CommishJoe · 07-08-2005, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by congobeast

The Boss has been no less bad for baseball than Pete Rose's gambling was.
Until Rose is in, I don't want Steinbrenner there.

/supports Rose in the HOF

Please tell me you forgot your sarcasm tags.

I really dislike Steinbrenner and am looking forward to him retiring. However, you can't argue that he took a Yankees team in shambles and built it into one of the most successful sport franchises. Yeah, you can dismiss it on the NY market, but then why didn't the Mets, Rangers, Islanders, Jets and Giants all have similar success (I won't even bother listing the Knicks here as we already know why

)?

Draven .. you almost got your chance to find out. Georgie tried to buy the Indians first and failed.

Eckstein 4 Prez · 07-08-2005, 11:38 AM

Oh, I see. Yeah, that's a good point. Although theoretically, it could be done in a small market - it just couldn't be done profitably. If someone like one of those Wal-Mart dudes wanted to turn Fayetteville, Arkansas into the home of the new Yankees, they certainly have the money to do it - they just couldn't expect to do more than recoup part of their investment.

I sometimes wonder if we'll ever see a vanity owner do something like this successfully.

Eckstein 4 Prez · 07-08-2005, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by congobeast

The Boss has been no less bad for baseball than Pete Rose's gambling was.

This is such a fundamental misstatement that it's hard to know where to start.

View Poll Results: Should George Steinbrenner be in the Hall of Fame?
Yes	29	80.56%
No	7	19.44%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

07-08-2005, 12:09 AM	#1
DamnYankees All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,644	George Steinbrenner: Hall of Fame? Alright, here it is. 30 years as the pre-eminent owner in baseball. Pros: 7 World Series and he redefined the way teams are built by diving headfirst into free agency. Cons: Do I need to list all the things bad about this guy? What's the call?

07-08-2005, 12:26 AM	#4
canadiancreed Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 11,660	you cnat argue at his will to win. goign on that he ='s like the ty cobb of owners, he'll go head first into winning, and be damned as to who he pisses off or plow over anyone that gets in his way. on the minus side, this tatic and the free agent thing has basicalyl destroyed any chance for small market teams to compete for the foreseeable future __________________ PT21 PT22

07-08-2005, 12:44 AM	#5
Jonzard Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,647	One of the best owners evah. I wish my owner wanted to win as bad as George does. __________________ For a scientist must indeed be freely imaginative and yet skeptical, creative and yet a critic. There is a sense in which he must be free, but another in which his thought must be very precisely regimented; there is poetry in science, but also a lot of bookkeeping. — Sir Peter B. Medawar FTB

07-08-2005, 12:55 AM	#6
abailey3313 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,718	I didn't even know owners could be Hall of Famers. But, if they can, then he is hands down a HoF'er. I hate the man too, but his impact on the game is far too great to go unrecognized. You can hate his tactics and you can hate the way he runs a team all day, but at the end of it all, you can't really ignore the success he's had. Seven World Championships speaks volumes, regardless of how that feat was accomplished. __________________

07-08-2005, 12:22 AM	#2
BaseballMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,528	I say yes. I am no fan of George, i wish small market teams could compete with him but if i was on a team i would want him as an owner because i know he will do everything he can to help the team win. Yeah he is wrong sometimes but thats just like managers and players making wrong choices. Hey would you rather have a Charley O' Finley or that Marlins owner selling your best players after a championship. What other owner has 6 world series titles, 10 world series apperances in this era? Like him or hate him i dont think you can debate hes had the most influence on the game as an owner than any other owner in the last 30 years.

07-08-2005, 12:26 AM	#3
tim_uwrf Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Field of Dreams Posts: 1,998	I think George is the devil. I think he is a horrible person for baseball. With that said, no doubt in my mind he's a HOFer.

07-08-2005, 01:43 AM	#9
Jordan All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Chi Suburbs now... Posts: 1,992	There's not enough space to list what he's done to earn a HOF plaque. Hell, even the bad stuff he did, like paying a guy to dig up dirt on Winfield, earns him comparisons to Comiskey, a HOF'er. Easily, he'll get a plaque

07-08-2005, 03:08 AM	#10
ihatenames Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Rockford Posts: 2,534	Without a doubt YES __________________ New Album coming soon!

07-08-2005, 03:10 AM	#11
rudel.dietrich Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Zürich, Switzerland Posts: 8,608	He pales in comparison to what total dicks Comisky and Griffith could be. Those two were more interested in making money than winning. George cares about winning and little else.

07-08-2005, 03:17 AM	#12
Eckstein 4 Prez Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: The OC Posts: 6,358	I hate him, but I'm not even sure I could make a case against him with a straight face. Absolutely he gets in - no question. He's more of a slam-dunk than pretty much any of the guys who played for him. __________________ Looking for an insomnia cure? Check out my dynasty thread, The Dawn of American Professional Base Ball, 1871.

07-08-2005, 10:29 AM	#13
sebastian0622 Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,465	I hate him, but he's no doubt a Hall of Famer.

07-08-2005, 10:35 AM	#14
draven085 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 2,074	It'd be interesting to see if we'd even be having this discussion had Steinbrenner owned a team in Milwaukee or Kansas City. My guess is no.

07-08-2005, 11:27 AM	#16
congobeast Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Western Massachusetts Posts: 469	The Boss has been no less bad for baseball than Pete Rose's gambling was. Until Rose is in, I don't want Steinbrenner there. /supports Rose in the HOF __________________ (The Boys of Summer) Cleveland Indians 1929-?? (All-Forum Baseball Dynasty) Pittsfield Hillies 2000-?? "I would walk through hell in a gasoline suit to play baseball." Pete Rose

07-08-2005, 11:38 AM	#19
Eckstein 4 Prez Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: The OC Posts: 6,358	Oh, I see. Yeah, that's a good point. Although theoretically, it could be done in a small market - it just couldn't be done profitably. If someone like one of those Wal-Mart dudes wanted to turn Fayetteville, Arkansas into the home of the new Yankees, they certainly have the money to do it - they just couldn't expect to do more than recoup part of their investment. I sometimes wonder if we'll ever see a vanity owner do something like this successfully. __________________ Looking for an insomnia cure? Check out my dynasty thread, The Dawn of American Professional Base Ball, 1871.