The dumbest thing I've ever heard

JDOldSchool · 06-03-2005, 09:10 PM

Ken "Hawk" Harrelson said what could be the stupidest thing of all time just now.

He actually said he'd prefer a guy who stole 90 or 100 bases than a guy who hits 50 home runs.

Seriously, he said that... and he meant it.

Jason Moyer · 06-03-2005, 09:14 PM

Well, if the 90-100 steal guy is Rickey Henderson, and the 50 HR guy is Ken Griffey Jr, I could see someone saying that. Or, well, in general. I don't think it's any more ridiculous than taking a .250 hitter over a .300 hitter, which in hundreds of cases makes perfect sense.

<o> · 06-03-2005, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDOldSchool

Ken "Hawk" Harrelson said what could be the stupidest thing of all time just now.

He actually said he'd prefer a guy who stole 90 or 100 bases than a guy who hits 50 home runs.

Seriously, he said that... and he meant it.

I don't know if it's the stupidest thing ever said. If the player score 75% of the 100 SB's, that's still 25 more runs that the HR hitter scored.

TonyJ · 06-03-2005, 09:16 PM

It depends on the circumstances like Jason said, but in most (nearly all) cases the home run guy will be more valuable

rudel.dietrich · 06-03-2005, 09:18 PM

I think all of you are idiots

I would much rather have the player who can do both

canadiancreed · 06-03-2005, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

I think all of you are idiots

I would much rather have the player who can do both

while we're at it i'd love to have Bill Gates money and live forever too

jaxmagicman · 06-03-2005, 09:27 PM

Good thing I don't have to hear the White Sox announcers. I get to hear the Indians announcers.

sebastian0622 · 06-03-2005, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDOldSchool

Ken "Hawk" Harrelson said what could be the stupidest thing of all time just now.

I've heard that before.

andjbock · 06-03-2005, 09:39 PM

Perspective:

Dave Kingman vs. Rickey Henderson
George Foster vs. Tim Raines

I have to go with the base stealers. A guy who steals 100 bases has at least 100 runs so there you go.

I value RBI and RUN at the same level since you can't do 1 without the other.

jaxmagicman · 06-03-2005, 09:40 PM

See someone who could steal 100 bases would have scored on that hit! At least he scored on the Sac Fly.

canadiancreed · 06-03-2005, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andjbock

Perspective:

Dave Kingman vs. Rickey Henderson
George Foster vs. Tim Raines

Myself i'd take Henderson and Raines over Kingman and Foster anyday, even if they were aggrogant SOB's and druggies at the time

jaxmagicman · 06-03-2005, 10:04 PM

What did Hawk say about the pick-off?

UngratefulDead · 06-03-2005, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andjbock

I value RBI and RUN at the same level since you can't do 1 without the other.

Actually, you could get infinite RBI without ever scoring a run, and vice versa.

KurtBevacqua · 06-03-2005, 10:24 PM

Sounds like a typical Harrelson quote to me.

And for the record, I'd take George Foster from 1975-1979 over any 5 year period of Tim Raines career. But I'd take Henderson over the lot of them at any time.

Dagrims · 06-03-2005, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by <o>

I don't know if it's the stupidest thing ever said. If the player score 75% of the 100 SB's, that's still 25 more runs that the HR hitter scored.

And if there are at least 26 men on base during the HR hitters' 50 homeruns, more than 75 runs score. The odds of that happening are better than the runner scoring 75% of the time he steals.

I agree, however, that I've heard dumber comments made. This one was pretty dumb, unless there was some sort of context.

El Cid Part II · 06-03-2005, 10:30 PM

I'd like to be an announcer who can say things like this and make my 5 year salary in 9 months

but that's me

JDOldSchool · 06-03-2005, 11:17 PM

Well, I think one caveat to throw in here is "all else equal." If the guys have the same BA, same OBP, same amount of doubles and triples, etc. Under no circumstances would I take the 100 SB guys if all else is equal unless those 100 steals were of home.

JDOldSchool · 06-03-2005, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagrims

I agree, however, that I've heard dumber comments made. This one was pretty dumb, unless there was some sort of context.

It may not be the dumbest, but I hate the overrating of the stolen base. It's like people make ridiculously stupid exaggerated statements to somehow elevate a steal and the real outcome of their statement just makes them look foolish. Are steals good? Yes. Is a steal (or even two steals) better than a home run? Hell no.

John C · 06-03-2005, 11:31 PM

You have to remember that, if you have a great base stealer, the guys behind him in the lineup are going to see a steady diet of fastballs. That could turn one of your power hitters into a 50 HR guy, or at least someone who increases his production considerably. It will also raise the level of the pitch, due to the catcher needed a higher ball to deliver in case of a steal attempt. This would lead to more line drives, with lead to more balls in the outfield, which lead to more runs scored by fast players. You keep runners on base, and keep the pressure on the pitcher.

I'd take the 100 SB guy any day of the week, all things equal.

TotalEnd98 · 06-03-2005, 11:38 PM

I hate the baseball traditionalist trend of being proud of being dumb. "Forget your stupid statistics, they don't mean anything. I see a guy steal a base! Where's your fancy stat for that?"

It's the same kind of stupidity of the masses that made "Einstein" an insult.

06-03-2005, 09:10 PM	#1
JDOldSchool Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 4,023	The dumbest thing I've ever heard Ken "Hawk" Harrelson said what could be the stupidest thing of all time just now. He actually said he'd prefer a guy who stole 90 or 100 bases than a guy who hits 50 home runs. Seriously, he said that... and he meant it.

06-03-2005, 09:14 PM	#2
Jason Moyer Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 5,111	Well, if the 90-100 steal guy is Rickey Henderson, and the 50 HR guy is Ken Griffey Jr, I could see someone saying that. Or, well, in general. I don't think it's any more ridiculous than taking a .250 hitter over a .300 hitter, which in hundreds of cases makes perfect sense. __________________ "I pretty much popped everything cold turkey. We were doing steroids they wouldn't give to horses." -- Tom House "I was very fortunate to have a pitching coach by the name of Tom House...Tom, I really miss those days that we spent in the weight room and out on the field working together." -- Nolan Ryan's HoF Induction Speech Last edited by Jason Moyer; 06-03-2005 at 09:15 PM.

06-03-2005, 09:16 PM	#4
TonyJ Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Gassin' Kurds Posts: 2,019	It depends on the circumstances like Jason said, but in most (nearly all) cases the home run guy will be more valuable __________________ My Podcasts: Talk Democratic Dysfunction Name Two Bands with Andy and Andy

06-03-2005, 09:27 PM	#7
jaxmagicman Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Retired defloration-maker living in Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 7,801	Good thing I don't have to hear the White Sox announcers. I get to hear the Indians announcers. __________________ See ID Major League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of MLB Advanced Media, L.P. Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with the permission of Minor League Baseball. All rights reserved.

06-03-2005, 09:39 PM	#9
andjbock Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Somerville, MA, USA Bats: Right Throws: Left Posts: 3,640	Perspective: Dave Kingman vs. Rickey Henderson George Foster vs. Tim Raines I have to go with the base stealers. A guy who steals 100 bases has at least 100 runs so there you go. I value RBI and RUN at the same level since you can't do 1 without the other. Last edited by andjbock; 06-03-2005 at 09:41 PM.

06-03-2005, 09:18 PM	#5
rudel.dietrich Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Zürich, Switzerland Posts: 8,608	I think all of you are idiots I would much rather have the player who can do both

06-03-2005, 09:40 PM	#10
jaxmagicman Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Retired defloration-maker living in Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 7,801	See someone who could steal 100 bases would have scored on that hit! At least he scored on the Sac Fly. __________________ See ID Major League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of MLB Advanced Media, L.P. Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with the permission of Minor League Baseball. All rights reserved.

06-03-2005, 10:04 PM	#12
jaxmagicman Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Retired defloration-maker living in Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 7,801	What did Hawk say about the pick-off? __________________ See ID Major League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of MLB Advanced Media, L.P. Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with the permission of Minor League Baseball. All rights reserved.

06-03-2005, 10:24 PM	#14
KurtBevacqua Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 2,968	Sounds like a typical Harrelson quote to me. And for the record, I'd take George Foster from 1975-1979 over any 5 year period of Tim Raines career. But I'd take Henderson over the lot of them at any time. __________________ "The type and formula of most schemes of philanthropy or humanitarianism is this: A and B put their heads together to decide what C shall be made to do for D. The radical vice of all these schemes, from a sociological point of view, is that C is not allowed a voice in the matter, and his position, character, and interests, as well as the ultimate effects on society through C's interests, are entirely overlooked. I call C the Forgotten Man" - William Graham Sumner Last edited by KurtBevacqua; 06-03-2005 at 10:25 PM.

06-03-2005, 10:30 PM	#16
El Cid Part II Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Reuniting the Spanish Cookie Elves Posts: 51	I'd like to be an announcer who can say things like this and make my 5 year salary in 9 months but that's me __________________ George Bush- "Thank you, and Goats Blow America"

06-03-2005, 11:17 PM	#17
JDOldSchool Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 4,023	Well, I think one caveat to throw in here is "all else equal." If the guys have the same BA, same OBP, same amount of doubles and triples, etc. Under no circumstances would I take the 100 SB guys if all else is equal unless those 100 steals were of home.

06-03-2005, 11:31 PM	#19
John C Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Albion, RI Posts: 2,286 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	You have to remember that, if you have a great base stealer, the guys behind him in the lineup are going to see a steady diet of fastballs. That could turn one of your power hitters into a 50 HR guy, or at least someone who increases his production considerably. It will also raise the level of the pitch, due to the catcher needed a higher ball to deliver in case of a steal attempt. This would lead to more line drives, with lead to more balls in the outfield, which lead to more runs scored by fast players. You keep runners on base, and keep the pressure on the pitcher. I'd take the 100 SB guy any day of the week, all things equal. __________________ Facebook \| My Videos Last edited by John C; 06-03-2005 at 11:32 PM.

06-03-2005, 11:38 PM	#20
TotalEnd98 All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: New York Posts: 1,687	I hate the baseball traditionalist trend of being proud of being dumb. "Forget your stupid statistics, they don't mean anything. I see a guy steal a base! Where's your fancy stat for that?" It's the same kind of stupidity of the masses that made "Einstein" an insult. __________________ OTBL - Scandinavia Cartoon Heroes This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper.