An Unlikely Leader, or, what the HELL???

Sagitta · 10-02-2002, 12:02 PM

Before I write this down...

I've been running a solo league (no interference from me, just the computer doing it's thing on its own) with a league I created to test my altitude/dimensions experiment out.

Its 2010 (the sim started in 2000 with all minor league players) of this fictional sim, and we just had our first HOF qualifier.

Before I go into details on him, I should explain how the league is set up:

I used a set of maps I have that break down the US into 6 sections to get the altitudes of each city where the games are to be played.

Thus, its a "Pacific League" and "Atlantic League", with the divisions named for each disk.

The Northeast, Southeast and Central divisions make up the Atlantic League, the Mountain, Southwest and Coastal are in the Pacific.

What this means, is that if you're a pitcher, the PL is a VERY scary place to play in. No less then 6 cities could be considered 'high altitude', with one city (Aspen, CO) sitting at a whopping 8,000 feet. I have mental images of pitchers crying when drafted into a PL city.

There is no DH in either league.

Anyways... on to my accounting of this um.. historic.. event...

-----------

SALT LAKE CITY, UT:

His name is Gerardo Dipietro, and today this 35 year old slugger who Fort Collins just traded for at this season's start made history by becoming the League's first Hall of Fame qualifier.

"Gerry" was a 7th round draft pick in the Great Draft of 2000 in which the league was formed, being selected by Fairbanks, Alaska and immediately pressed into service as a their regular leftfielder.

He impressed many, by crushing 56 home runs in his first year. Fairbanks' coaches were not pleased, however, by his hitting. "The homers are impressive, but damn, this man can't hit anything else. He's young though, so I'm sure that his average will climb above .200 as his career progresses."

They were wrong.

The man who has only twice in ten years hit less than 40 homers has only twice had a year in which his average at the end of the year was higher than .200. In 2006, playing for the New Jersey Pine Barons, he had his best average, and it was .217, and made his only Allstar appearance. He followd that by with a .215, and has not seen .200 since, until this year. At the time of his historical home run, his batting average sits at .202.

While baseball has to cheer for this man and his history making bomb over the wall of Salt Lake's Tabernacle Field, it has to wonder about the amazing career of this man of two extremes.

Sagitta · 10-02-2002, 12:18 PM

Pertinant information:

Overall batting ratings: 2,4,2,11,2,2
Fielding ratings: LF "C" .981, CF "D", .975
Outfield arm: C
Running Speed: C
Stealing ability: C
Sac Bunting: E
Bunt for Hit: E
Hitter Type: Normal

Draft #152, Fairbanks Huskies, 2000
Traded Fairbanks to Aspen prospectors, 5/16/2003
Signed by New Jersey Pine Barons as a FA 2005 for 4 years at 1,183,300/year.
Won 1st and 2nd of 3 Batter of the Month Awards in 2006
Played only Allstar game 2006
Set AL HR record of 53 in 2006 (later broken)
Set AL RBI record in 2007 (later broken)
Notched 3rd BOTM award in 2009
Traded from NJ to Fort Collins Comets 4/20/2010
Notched HR #500 on 9/7/2010

Most common quote about this man: "He's sure is interesting to watch."

Edit: Note that the bulk of his power years and better AVG years were spent in the AL, *away* from the thin air of the PL. Imagine if he had stayed in Aspen what his numbers would of been by now?

sixto · 10-02-2002, 12:24 PM

yeah. i really look forward to this sort of player being eradicated in OOTP5. historically they do not exist. even dave kingman hit over .230.

6

Sagitta · 10-02-2002, 12:37 PM

This guy just sort of flew in under my radar. I wasn't watching the career leaders listings, and since he never won any major awards, I wasn't even aware he existed until his name was the first to appear as a 500 HR man and interrupted the sim. Coincidentally, he sits about 34 games ahead of the next two players who'll hit this mark. One of these two is also a low AVG man with a career avg of about .235, the other has one thats about .280.

I'm wondering if maybe the sim is factoring the fact that I have an unusually high amount of high HR parks sitting in the Pacific League and is adjusting to keep power hitters alive more then it normally would.

If it IS... I'm actually a bit impressed, because it *would* make sense to play power hitters more in those types of environments.

Unfortunately the fact that this guy spent half his career in Jersey makes that a little less likely in my mind. The Atlantic League is pretty 'normal' as far as parks go for hitting.

Chappy · 10-02-2002, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sixto
yeah. i really look forward to this sort of player being eradicated in OOTP5. historically they do not exist. even dave kingman hit over .230.

6

I disagree. I think this type of player does exsist in real life, but no manager would let a player like that play in the ML as a regular. Think Joey Meyer or Luis Medina. They may have put up similar numbers, but were not given the opportunity to be everyday players (and rightfully so).

The problem IMO is with the game's logic for favoring power over contact so drastically. I think the game should continue to generate these players, but the sim should keep them as 'off the bench' power or keep them in the minors to 'work on their averages'.

blubbla · 10-02-2002, 09:23 PM

Don't forget the "immortal" Sam Horn...

slackmeisterPA · 10-03-2002, 01:33 AM

Sam Horn is a beast in every historical sim I've ever done. He's constantly over 600 home runs, and never with much more than a .230 average.

I agree, the manager's AI should be tweaked. If you can't hit more than .200 there really isn't a spot in the starting lineup.

Sagitta · 10-03-2002, 04:55 AM

Well... he retired, final stats:

600 HR, career AVG of .193, 1502 RBI's in 7419 ABs over 2001 games. 1916 K's, 370 BB's, OBP of .231, SLG of .489.

The big question: who's hat will he wear for his plaque? I'd say New hersey, simply because he had his best years there. (Gotta love that career high .217 AVG with an Allstar appearance...)

He was good for 120+ BI/year on average, so... IMHO he was the recipient of good fortune in that he had prior hitters before him in his career who always sat there on base waiting for him to nail a 2,3, or 4-run bomb.

As long as you're getting 120+ RBI a year, theres no reason no to be in the lineup. Though its a very, VERY thin line to walk should your leadoff men stop reaching base.

As I said, this guy would probably be fun as hell to watch play if he were real.

- J

joshuaaaaaa · 10-03-2002, 12:37 PM

I agree with those who say players like this should not be starters. Just being able to hit the ball hard is not enough to give you an everyday spot. There ought to be a minimum OBP requirement or something like that in the AI. Also, what about guys who strike out 300+ times a season (scarily enough, they do exist). No manager in his right mind would make one of them a regular, either.

Michael Xavier · 10-05-2002, 06:53 AM

GRRRRRR... I hate Sam Horn-esque players. I kill them in my solo leagues. They all become a bunch of Russ Mormon's.

Honolulu Blue · 10-08-2002, 12:49 PM

A couple of similar major league players who had decent careers and no one has mentioned yet were Steve Balboni and Rob Deer. I also have two similar players in my solo league who made the Hall because they hit their 500 homers.

This thread has made me think about what circumstances I would use a .190 hitter who jacks the ball out every dozen times up. He'd need to draw some walks, play good defense at a key position, have good speed - something to make up for the hits he doesn't get. But I wouldn't dismiss him out of hand.

Sagitta · 10-08-2002, 04:00 PM

Well, this player was averaging an RBI about 3 out of every games he played in - which is NOT a bad total, all said. I wasn't tracking him until he made his 500th, but in all odds he was played behind players who regularly could get on base, and he was basically used to crush in RBI's.

Ann odd tactic, but apparently it worked. He's still in the top 5 20 years into the league as far as career RBI totals.

- J

Jon Finnecy · 10-10-2002, 04:52 PM

Yeah Rob Deer. Or, to give a modern example, how about the kind of player Jeromy Burnitz is becoming? The last 3 seasons he has hit .234 while hitting 31, 34 and 19 homers. Sure, the average is not as low, but neither is he getting as many home runs. So, if the Mets are willing to play a guy who hits .215 with 19 homers in 154 games, what makes you guys think a team, *some* team, wouldn't want a guy who hits .190 with 50 bombs? I'm not saying he'd go to the World Series or anything, but there's worse guys playing on major league squads (think of guys who hit .210 with *no* homers).

Delgadodawg · 10-11-2002, 01:43 PM

Quote:

So, if the Mets are willing to play a guy who hits .215 with 19 homers in 154 games,

I am pretty sure the Mets didn't think Burnitz would be that bad---If they had known, I don't think they would have been "willing" to pay him anything.

Malignant · 10-11-2002, 05:21 PM

Ah the infamous Steve Balboni. You know the curse of Balboni right?

church · 10-11-2002, 08:49 PM

I'm playing a guy at 3b whos batting .160. Everything he connects to is pretty much a home run though. I'd like to replace him but I don't have anyone to bring up in his place. You would think a 4 for hits would get you an average over the mendoza line.

Rasmuth · 10-12-2002, 10:32 AM

Those are numbers Billy Ashley would have probably put up if allowed to play with the obvious flaws in his game.

mottyl · 10-15-2002, 08:40 PM

I'd have to agree with Chappy here. The problem is not so much that these guys don't exist in real life, but that they'd never get enough at-bats to either qualify for batting titles or hit 500 HRs. The same goes for the many 200+ SO guys I see.

Either the lineup selection could be tweaked to not favour power so much, or perhaps current year's stats could be weighted more heavily in deciding playing time throughout the year.

GForce22 · 10-16-2002, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mottyl
I'd have to agree with Chappy here. The problem is not so much that these guys don't exist in real life, but that they'd never get enough at-bats to either qualify for batting titles or hit 500 HRs. The same goes for the many 200+ SO guys I see.

.

If you like 200+SO guys, wait for Gorman Thomas in the all-time set. Against top pitchers on a daily basis, this guy puts up some silly K numbers...still hits some bombs though.

GH

bulldog55 · 10-18-2002, 08:21 PM

And the Dodgers had Billy Ashley, who was that potentially that type of player, but they never started him.

My favorite stat is the whopping .230 OBP!

10-02-2002, 12:18 PM	#2
Sagitta Major Leagues Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Bouncing between Phillies and Red Sox territory Posts: 357	Pertinant information: Overall batting ratings: 2,4,2,11,2,2 Fielding ratings: LF "C" .981, CF "D", .975 Outfield arm: C Running Speed: C Stealing ability: C Sac Bunting: E Bunt for Hit: E Hitter Type: Normal Draft #152, Fairbanks Huskies, 2000 Traded Fairbanks to Aspen prospectors, 5/16/2003 Signed by New Jersey Pine Barons as a FA 2005 for 4 years at 1,183,300/year. Won 1st and 2nd of 3 Batter of the Month Awards in 2006 Played only Allstar game 2006 Set AL HR record of 53 in 2006 (later broken) Set AL RBI record in 2007 (later broken) Notched 3rd BOTM award in 2009 Traded from NJ to Fort Collins Comets 4/20/2010 Notched HR #500 on 9/7/2010 Most common quote about this man: "He's sure is interesting to watch." Edit: Note that the bulk of his power years and better AVG years were spent in the AL, away from the thin air of the PL. Imagine if he had stayed in Aspen what his numbers would of been by now? Attached Images __________________ I'm a lifelong Phillies fan - "Hey, at least we beat the Braves in '93." Last edited by Sagitta; 10-02-2002 at 12:30 PM.

10-02-2002, 12:37 PM	#4
Sagitta Major Leagues Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Bouncing between Phillies and Red Sox territory Posts: 357	This guy just sort of flew in under my radar. I wasn't watching the career leaders listings, and since he never won any major awards, I wasn't even aware he existed until his name was the first to appear as a 500 HR man and interrupted the sim. Coincidentally, he sits about 34 games ahead of the next two players who'll hit this mark. One of these two is also a low AVG man with a career avg of about .235, the other has one thats about .280. I'm wondering if maybe the sim is factoring the fact that I have an unusually high amount of high HR parks sitting in the Pacific League and is adjusting to keep power hitters alive more then it normally would. If it IS... I'm actually a bit impressed, because it would make sense to play power hitters more in those types of environments. Unfortunately the fact that this guy spent half his career in Jersey makes that a little less likely in my mind. The Atlantic League is pretty 'normal' as far as parks go for hitting. __________________ I'm a lifelong Phillies fan - "Hey, at least we beat the Braves in '93."

10-03-2002, 04:55 AM	#8
Sagitta Major Leagues Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Bouncing between Phillies and Red Sox territory Posts: 357	Well... he retired, final stats: 600 HR, career AVG of .193, 1502 RBI's in 7419 ABs over 2001 games. 1916 K's, 370 BB's, OBP of .231, SLG of .489. The big question: who's hat will he wear for his plaque? I'd say New hersey, simply because he had his best years there. (Gotta love that career high .217 AVG with an Allstar appearance...) He was good for 120+ BI/year on average, so... IMHO he was the recipient of good fortune in that he had prior hitters before him in his career who always sat there on base waiting for him to nail a 2,3, or 4-run bomb. As long as you're getting 120+ RBI a year, theres no reason no to be in the lineup. Though its a very, VERY thin line to walk should your leadoff men stop reaching base. As I said, this guy would probably be fun as hell to watch play if he were real. - J __________________ I'm a lifelong Phillies fan - "Hey, at least we beat the Braves in '93." Last edited by Sagitta; 10-03-2002 at 05:03 AM.

10-03-2002, 12:37 PM	#9
joshuaaaaaa All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 633	I agree with those who say players like this should not be starters. Just being able to hit the ball hard is not enough to give you an everyday spot. There ought to be a minimum OBP requirement or something like that in the AI. Also, what about guys who strike out 300+ times a season (scarily enough, they do exist). No manager in his right mind would make one of them a regular, either. __________________ Baltimore Monarchs-GUBA Baltimore Orioles-ORB2 "One of the greatest discoveries a man makes, one of his great surprises, is to find he can do what he was afraid he couldn't do." ~Henry Ford ~

10-05-2002, 06:53 AM	#10
Michael Xavier Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 455	GRRRRRR... I hate Sam Horn-esque players. I kill them in my solo leagues. They all become a bunch of Russ Mormon's. __________________ OOTP since March 2002

10-02-2002, 12:02 PM	#1
Sagitta Major Leagues Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Bouncing between Phillies and Red Sox territory Posts: 357	An Unlikely Leader, or, what the HELL??? Before I write this down... I've been running a solo league (no interference from me, just the computer doing it's thing on its own) with a league I created to test my altitude/dimensions experiment out. Its 2010 (the sim started in 2000 with all minor league players) of this fictional sim, and we just had our first HOF qualifier. Before I go into details on him, I should explain how the league is set up: I used a set of maps I have that break down the US into 6 sections to get the altitudes of each city where the games are to be played. Thus, its a "Pacific League" and "Atlantic League", with the divisions named for each disk. The Northeast, Southeast and Central divisions make up the Atlantic League, the Mountain, Southwest and Coastal are in the Pacific. What this means, is that if you're a pitcher, the PL is a VERY scary place to play in. No less then 6 cities could be considered 'high altitude', with one city (Aspen, CO) sitting at a whopping 8,000 feet. I have mental images of pitchers crying when drafted into a PL city. There is no DH in either league. Anyways... on to my accounting of this um.. historic.. event... ----------- SALT LAKE CITY, UT: His name is Gerardo Dipietro, and today this 35 year old slugger who Fort Collins just traded for at this season's start made history by becoming the League's first Hall of Fame qualifier. "Gerry" was a 7th round draft pick in the Great Draft of 2000 in which the league was formed, being selected by Fairbanks, Alaska and immediately pressed into service as a their regular leftfielder. He impressed many, by crushing 56 home runs in his first year. Fairbanks' coaches were not pleased, however, by his hitting. "The homers are impressive, but damn, this man can't hit anything else. He's young though, so I'm sure that his average will climb above .200 as his career progresses." They were wrong. The man who has only twice in ten years hit less than 40 homers has only twice had a year in which his average at the end of the year was higher than .200. In 2006, playing for the New Jersey Pine Barons, he had his best average, and it was .217, and made his only Allstar appearance. He followd that by with a .215, and has not seen .200 since, until this year. At the time of his historical home run, his batting average sits at .202. While baseball has to cheer for this man and his history making bomb over the wall of Salt Lake's Tabernacle Field, it has to wonder about the amazing career of this man of two extremes. __________________ I'm a lifelong Phillies fan - "Hey, at least we beat the Braves in '93." Last edited by Sagitta; 10-02-2002 at 12:26 PM.

10-02-2002, 12:24 PM	#3
sixto Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,262	yeah. i really look forward to this sort of player being eradicated in OOTP5. historically they do not exist. even dave kingman hit over .230. 6

10-02-2002, 09:23 PM	#6
blubbla Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Herscher, IL Posts: 2,457	Don't forget the "immortal" Sam Horn...

10-03-2002, 01:33 AM	#7
slackmeisterPA Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 275	Sam Horn is a beast in every historical sim I've ever done. He's constantly over 600 home runs, and never with much more than a .230 average. I agree, the manager's AI should be tweaked. If you can't hit more than .200 there really isn't a spot in the starting lineup.

10-08-2002, 12:49 PM	#11
Honolulu Blue Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 241	A couple of similar major league players who had decent careers and no one has mentioned yet were Steve Balboni and Rob Deer. I also have two similar players in my solo league who made the Hall because they hit their 500 homers. This thread has made me think about what circumstances I would use a .190 hitter who jacks the ball out every dozen times up. He'd need to draw some walks, play good defense at a key position, have good speed - something to make up for the hits he doesn't get. But I wouldn't dismiss him out of hand.

10-08-2002, 04:00 PM	#12
Sagitta Major Leagues Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Bouncing between Phillies and Red Sox territory Posts: 357	Well, this player was averaging an RBI about 3 out of every games he played in - which is NOT a bad total, all said. I wasn't tracking him until he made his 500th, but in all odds he was played behind players who regularly could get on base, and he was basically used to crush in RBI's. Ann odd tactic, but apparently it worked. He's still in the top 5 20 years into the league as far as career RBI totals. - J __________________ I'm a lifelong Phillies fan - "Hey, at least we beat the Braves in '93."

10-10-2002, 04:52 PM	#13
Jon Finnecy Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 47	Yeah Rob Deer. Or, to give a modern example, how about the kind of player Jeromy Burnitz is becoming? The last 3 seasons he has hit .234 while hitting 31, 34 and 19 homers. Sure, the average is not as low, but neither is he getting as many home runs. So, if the Mets are willing to play a guy who hits .215 with 19 homers in 154 games, what makes you guys think a team, some team, wouldn't want a guy who hits .190 with 50 bombs? I'm not saying he'd go to the World Series or anything, but there's worse guys playing on major league squads (think of guys who hit .210 with no homers).

10-11-2002, 05:21 PM	#15
Malignant Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 33	Ah the infamous Steve Balboni. You know the curse of Balboni right? __________________ Just because you're paranoid, don't mean they're not after you.

10-11-2002, 08:49 PM	#16
church Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2002 Location: winnipeg, manitoba. Posts: 121	I'm playing a guy at 3b whos batting .160. Everything he connects to is pretty much a home run though. I'd like to replace him but I don't have anyone to bring up in his place. You would think a 4 for hits would get you an average over the mendoza line.

10-12-2002, 10:32 AM	#17
Rasmuth All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Upstate Western NY Posts: 1,760	Those are numbers Billy Ashley would have probably put up if allowed to play with the obvious flaws in his game.

10-15-2002, 08:40 PM	#18
mottyl Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Toronto Posts: 24	I'd have to agree with Chappy here. The problem is not so much that these guys don't exist in real life, but that they'd never get enough at-bats to either qualify for batting titles or hit 500 HRs. The same goes for the many 200+ SO guys I see. Either the lineup selection could be tweaked to not favour power so much, or perhaps current year's stats could be weighted more heavily in deciding playing time throughout the year.

10-18-2002, 08:21 PM	#20
bulldog55 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: California's Canada Warnings: 17 Posts: 2,479	And the Dodgers had Billy Ashley, who was that potentially that type of player, but they never started him. My favorite stat is the whopping .230 OBP! __________________ Commissioner, Trans-Continental Base Ball Association Owner/GM, Los Angeles Electrics (TCBA), Beaverton Rangers (OTBL), Portland Mavericks (Union League), and Los Angeles Superbas (Century League) Being smart, don't always make you popular.