Anybody watch Ring of Fire?

crusadecat · 04-21-2005, 01:21 AM

Emille Griffith documentary was on USA network, very touching , good interviews with all of the main people still living who had anything to do with the Griffith-Paret fight and its aftermath. I believe they are showing it again in a few days not sure when for those who missed it.

04-21-2005, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crusadecat

Emille Griffith documentary was on USA network, very touching , good interviews with all of the main people still living who had anything to do with the Griffith-Paret fight and its aftermath. I believe they are showing it again in a few days not sure when for those who missed it.

Great show, and no commercials!

There's a lot of merit to the claim that Paret's death was the result not only of Griffith's punches but also of the brutal beating he received from Gene Fullmer. When they showed Fullmer knocking out Paret it was clear that Paret should not have been fighting again for a long time, if ever.

ACGord · 04-21-2005, 04:47 PM

I can't recommend this enough.

I was hesitant going in it being on USA network and all. But I was very surprised thought it was in depth and entertaining. If you get a chance it's well worth a watch.

steamboat brand, palooka · 04-21-2005, 08:24 PM

I haven't seen the movie, and I didn't see the fight live, but I clearly remember the days after that fight. I very clearly recall seeing an awful photo on the back page of the New York Daily News, showing Paret on his back in the hospital bed, wearing an oxygen mask, looking dead already, and his wife is there. Someone had the photo plastered on the bulletin board of my classroom. My father had died on February 21st, 1962, just over one month earlier, and I was in the fourth grade. It was not my favorite picture, to say the least. I must have felt like death was all around me. I remember rooting hard for Benny to pull through, but he died. Until today, I never thought of how close in time my father's death and Benny Paret's was.
Though I am "straight" to the extreme, I don't approve of Benny's taunts. The funny thing was, in those days, he probably represented the majority view. Maybe even now, who knows. Emile seemed like a good guy, and if that's his thing, to each his own.

maxx · 04-21-2005, 11:06 PM

One of the better boxing-related documentaries I've seen.

The first time I'd heard of the Griffith/Paret tragedy was from -- wouldn't you know it -- the old Title Bout boxing cards back when I got the game in the late seventies. Because of that, Paret became one of my favorite fighters when playing the game. He even held my welterweight title briefly.

Although the final KO was brutal, given the Fullmer fight & the way they talked about Paret taking so many shots over mostly distance fights, it seemed like his health was at a particularly high risk.

vistaman44 · 04-23-2005, 11:01 AM

... I would have to say the piece was objective and not sensationalized, as so many others have been and this one had the potential to be. Heck, "Ali" was on last night, and that may have had more "embellishing."

JCFLA · 04-27-2005, 09:40 PM

Well-done documentary. Could have been weepy in the wrong hands, but the producers did a good job by staying objective and including all sides of the story.

It was a touching finale with Emile finally meeting up with Paret Jr. and, hopefully, burying the past. Again, this Hollywoodish final scene might seem mawkish and contrived, but with all the pathos of Paret's death and Emile's sad decline, the picture ended on an uplifting note.

The things that stood out to me the most were Fullmer's pounding of Paret, (my god, those body shots hurt me just watching!), the misguided criticism of Ruby Goldtein and the "let's ban boxing" uproar following the fatal KO. Jack Newfield's comment about the "epidemic of piety" really hit home with me. Going back in history, it is interesting to note how Americans generally overreact to tragedy whether it be in sports, crime, war, politics, whatever. Our usual mixture of moral indignation, Old Testament vengeance-seeking and locking the barn door after the herd has fled is evidenced by such recent events as our post-9/11 actions, the steroid "scandal", the attention paid to celebrities' trials and tribulations, the Terri Schiavo circus, the outcry against "vulgarity" in our culture, immigrant bashing, etc., etc.

Pardon the digression from boxing, but the point is: Paret knew the risks and so did his wife, but bad things happen in the ring. In a perfect world his manager might not have let him go through with the fight, Goldstein might have reacted quicker, who knows? Dale Earnhardt knew the risks, too; so did the shuttle astronauts, so did Pat Tillman. We miss these brave souls, we salute them and we try to make sure it doesn't happen again to those following in the path they led. But we must also realize, as they undoubtedly did, that these are extreme and dangerous pusuits with consequences of violence and harm not suited for the average person. They would be the first to tell us that their deaths or any future failures should never deter us from moving ahead. Narrow thinking won't keep our heroes from dying in the arena of their choice any more than it will cure homosexuality, pedophilia or spousal abuse, limit society's abuse of legal and illegal drugs or fix our economic woes.

In the end, a mere prizefight pales in comparison to the real struggles of our time and I, for one, must try to keep my ever-decreasing level of concentration focused on those things I can fix myself.

Sermon's over folks. Copies are available for 5 cents on your favorite brand of toilet paper.

CONN CHRIS · 04-27-2005, 10:10 PM

You all have no idea how much you are bumming me out with this thread.

I do not have cable and, are you sitting down, we do not have a television in the house (by choice, we have four young children that we are trying to shape). I went to my parents' home to watch the Johnson documentary in January but couldn't do it for this one.

I get a bit of fight video at MaxBoxing and follow the fights they offer by text scroll. That and I live vicariously through all of you. Even though it bums me out on some level - please keep talking

Christopher

04-27-2005, 11:21 PM

JCFLA -

Nice, thoughtful post.

You're absolutely right - Paret knew what he was doing was risky but did it anyway. I have sympathy for his wife and kid, who shouldn't have had to deal with such a tragedy, but it's hard to have much sympathy for Paret and the others who die in the ring - Davey Moore, Johnny Owen, Duk Koo Kim, etc.

You look at boxers who take such obviously illogical risks and wonder why? Why are Holyfield, Bowe and Tyson still fighting? Holy and Bowe already have serious brain damage (it appears that way to me) and Tyson is probably starting to show symptoms too.

As much as I like boxing, I would never recommend it to anyone I cared for as a profession or even as a hobby. It's just too dangerous.

CONN CHRIS · 04-27-2005, 11:33 PM

I do not know about Kim or Moore, but there was really nothing to suggest that Johnny Owen was taking any greater risk than any other boxer in the Pintor fight.

Paret of course, was another story.

jrftbl56 · 04-30-2005, 06:14 PM

With the discussion of fighters dieing in the ring what does everyone think about Baby Joe Mesi having the chance to fight

Bronx Bomber 15 · 05-01-2005, 11:48 AM

I understand Mesi's position. He loves fighting, it's his livlihood and has given him status and popularity most of us can only dream of but...

a brain injury is nothing to sneeze at. Regardless of what doctors say about his risk not being any greater than any other average fighter, I think it's a huge mistake to continue fighting. I'm no doctor but if he suffered this injury once, doesn't that show he could be prone to having it occur again? Some fighters go an entire career without any major injuries, some aren't so lucky. No belt or money or recognition is worth your health. How many fighters have climbed into the ring healthy (or apparently so) only to end up in grave condition, disabled, blind, etc. Why put yourself at a greater risk than you are as a fighter already?
Either way I wish him luck.

jrftbl56 · 05-01-2005, 02:11 PM

Good point Bronx lets hope no matter what mesi chooses he stays safe a doesnt recieve any further brain damage.

04-21-2005, 01:21 AM	#1
crusadecat All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 827	Anybody watch Ring of Fire? Emille Griffith documentary was on USA network, very touching , good interviews with all of the main people still living who had anything to do with the Griffith-Paret fight and its aftermath. I believe they are showing it again in a few days not sure when for those who missed it.

04-23-2005, 11:01 AM	#6
vistaman44 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Auxvasse, Mo. Posts: 3,576	As a journalist ... ... I would have to say the piece was objective and not sensationalized, as so many others have been and this one had the potential to be. Heck, "Ali" was on last night, and that may have had more "embellishing." __________________ ---Mark (vistaman44) http://www.fistication.blogspot.com/ "What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters, compared to what lies within us." — Ralph Waldo Emerson, American essayist, philosopher and poet (1803-1882) ----------------------------------- Currently operating 1970s SM-HW, 1940s, African, 1980s LW and women's boxing universes

04-27-2005, 09:40 PM	#7
JCFLA Minors (Single A) Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Melbourne, Fl Posts: 77	Well-done documentary. Could have been weepy in the wrong hands, but the producers did a good job by staying objective and including all sides of the story. It was a touching finale with Emile finally meeting up with Paret Jr. and, hopefully, burying the past. Again, this Hollywoodish final scene might seem mawkish and contrived, but with all the pathos of Paret's death and Emile's sad decline, the picture ended on an uplifting note. The things that stood out to me the most were Fullmer's pounding of Paret, (my god, those body shots hurt me just watching!), the misguided criticism of Ruby Goldtein and the "let's ban boxing" uproar following the fatal KO. Jack Newfield's comment about the "epidemic of piety" really hit home with me. Going back in history, it is interesting to note how Americans generally overreact to tragedy whether it be in sports, crime, war, politics, whatever. Our usual mixture of moral indignation, Old Testament vengeance-seeking and locking the barn door after the herd has fled is evidenced by such recent events as our post-9/11 actions, the steroid "scandal", the attention paid to celebrities' trials and tribulations, the Terri Schiavo circus, the outcry against "vulgarity" in our culture, immigrant bashing, etc., etc. Pardon the digression from boxing, but the point is: Paret knew the risks and so did his wife, but bad things happen in the ring. In a perfect world his manager might not have let him go through with the fight, Goldstein might have reacted quicker, who knows? Dale Earnhardt knew the risks, too; so did the shuttle astronauts, so did Pat Tillman. We miss these brave souls, we salute them and we try to make sure it doesn't happen again to those following in the path they led. But we must also realize, as they undoubtedly did, that these are extreme and dangerous pusuits with consequences of violence and harm not suited for the average person. They would be the first to tell us that their deaths or any future failures should never deter us from moving ahead. Narrow thinking won't keep our heroes from dying in the arena of their choice any more than it will cure homosexuality, pedophilia or spousal abuse, limit society's abuse of legal and illegal drugs or fix our economic woes. In the end, a mere prizefight pales in comparison to the real struggles of our time and I, for one, must try to keep my ever-decreasing level of concentration focused on those things I can fix myself. Sermon's over folks. Copies are available for 5 cents on your favorite brand of toilet paper. __________________ JC Last edited by JCFLA; 04-27-2005 at 09:54 PM.

04-27-2005, 10:10 PM	#8
CONN CHRIS Global Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 29,019	You all have no idea how much you are bumming me out with this thread. I do not have cable and, are you sitting down, we do not have a television in the house (by choice, we have four young children that we are trying to shape). I went to my parents' home to watch the Johnson documentary in January but couldn't do it for this one. I get a bit of fight video at MaxBoxing and follow the fights they offer by text scroll. That and I live vicariously through all of you. Even though it bums me out on some level - please keep talking Christopher __________________ Check Out My Cards!

04-27-2005, 11:33 PM	#10
CONN CHRIS Global Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 29,019	I do not know about Kim or Moore, but there was really nothing to suggest that Johnny Owen was taking any greater risk than any other boxer in the Pintor fight. Paret of course, was another story. __________________ Check Out My Cards!

04-21-2005, 04:47 PM	#3
ACGord Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 78	I can't recommend this enough. I was hesitant going in it being on USA network and all. But I was very surprised thought it was in depth and entertaining. If you get a chance it's well worth a watch.

04-21-2005, 08:24 PM	#4
steamboat brand, palooka Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 156	I haven't seen the movie, and I didn't see the fight live, but I clearly remember the days after that fight. I very clearly recall seeing an awful photo on the back page of the New York Daily News, showing Paret on his back in the hospital bed, wearing an oxygen mask, looking dead already, and his wife is there. Someone had the photo plastered on the bulletin board of my classroom. My father had died on February 21st, 1962, just over one month earlier, and I was in the fourth grade. It was not my favorite picture, to say the least. I must have felt like death was all around me. I remember rooting hard for Benny to pull through, but he died. Until today, I never thought of how close in time my father's death and Benny Paret's was. Though I am "straight" to the extreme, I don't approve of Benny's taunts. The funny thing was, in those days, he probably represented the majority view. Maybe even now, who knows. Emile seemed like a good guy, and if that's his thing, to each his own.

04-21-2005, 11:06 PM	#5
maxx All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 716	One of the better boxing-related documentaries I've seen. The first time I'd heard of the Griffith/Paret tragedy was from -- wouldn't you know it -- the old Title Bout boxing cards back when I got the game in the late seventies. Because of that, Paret became one of my favorite fighters when playing the game. He even held my welterweight title briefly. Although the final KO was brutal, given the Fullmer fight & the way they talked about Paret taking so many shots over mostly distance fights, it seemed like his health was at a particularly high risk.

04-27-2005, 11:21 PM	#9
60'sfan Guest Posts: n/a	JCFLA - Nice, thoughtful post. You're absolutely right - Paret knew what he was doing was risky but did it anyway. I have sympathy for his wife and kid, who shouldn't have had to deal with such a tragedy, but it's hard to have much sympathy for Paret and the others who die in the ring - Davey Moore, Johnny Owen, Duk Koo Kim, etc. You look at boxers who take such obviously illogical risks and wonder why? Why are Holyfield, Bowe and Tyson still fighting? Holy and Bowe already have serious brain damage (it appears that way to me) and Tyson is probably starting to show symptoms too. As much as I like boxing, I would never recommend it to anyone I cared for as a profession or even as a hobby. It's just too dangerous.

04-30-2005, 06:14 PM	#11
jrftbl56 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 287	With the discussion of fighters dieing in the ring what does everyone think about Baby Joe Mesi having the chance to fight

05-01-2005, 11:48 AM	#12
Bronx Bomber 15 All Star Reserve Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: A house in the wooded mountains Posts: 939	I understand Mesi's position. He loves fighting, it's his livlihood and has given him status and popularity most of us can only dream of but... a brain injury is nothing to sneeze at. Regardless of what doctors say about his risk not being any greater than any other average fighter, I think it's a huge mistake to continue fighting. I'm no doctor but if he suffered this injury once, doesn't that show he could be prone to having it occur again? Some fighters go an entire career without any major injuries, some aren't so lucky. No belt or money or recognition is worth your health. How many fighters have climbed into the ring healthy (or apparently so) only to end up in grave condition, disabled, blind, etc. Why put yourself at a greater risk than you are as a fighter already? Either way I wish him luck. __________________ Fightsimsplus.com Fightsims Facebook Page Fightsims on X

05-01-2005, 02:11 PM	#13
jrftbl56 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 287	Good point Bronx lets hope no matter what mesi chooses he stays safe a doesnt recieve any further brain damage.