Closer Usage Fix in 6.12

Qwerty75 · 03-28-2005, 08:03 PM

v.6.12 has advertised the following feature:

Quote:

- Fixed closer usage AI, increasing save totals

I'm curious to know how this changes the AI's management of the bullpen. Has anyone noticed any difference in reliever usage patterns, other than a (presumable) increase in raw saves totals league-wide? An example of a change (e.g., AI brings in closer more often/less often in the 8th inning) would be helpful. Just want to get an idea of what's there before I download the patch ...

Thanks.

sporr · 03-28-2005, 10:05 PM

Well actually the problem wasn't the total number of saves league-wide, it was the fact that the saves seemed to be too spread out. The patch tried to address this by having the AI bring the designated closer into more save situations.

BondsFanatic · 03-28-2005, 11:17 PM

I think it is a matter of designating your MR as a closer on his role tab. Simply placing a MR in the closer slot on the pitching staff screen will lead to a bullpen by committee type of system leading to more save opportunities to your setups. I'm still using the 6.11 patch and the save opportunities seem realistic to me.

thomamon · 03-28-2005, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BondsFanatic

I think it is a matter of designating your MR as a closer on his role tab. Simply placing a MR in the closer slot on the pitching staff screen will lead to a bullpen by committee type of system leading to more save opportunities to your setups. I'm still using the 6.11 patch and the save opportunities seem realistic to me.

Are you sure about that? I don't think that is the case.

MogulChamp · 03-28-2005, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BondsFanatic

I think it is a matter of designating your MR as a closer on his role tab. Simply placing a MR in the closer slot on the pitching staff screen will lead to a bullpen by committee type of system leading to more save opportunities to your setups. I'm still using the 6.11 patch and the save opportunities seem realistic to me.

No this is totally incorrect. Setup men and middle relievers were getting way too many saves and save opportunities in comparison with closers. No matter what role they had. Prepatch, closers werent even being brought in sometimes, even when fully rested.

And to answer the thread starters question, yes it is more realistic now. The above isn't happening.

MogulChamp · 03-31-2005, 12:54 AM

Well now...I thought it was fixed, but this is kind of weird.

http://cibl.classic-baseball.us/bosi...ts/box289.html

Can someone please explain why my closer pitched 4 innings? And was brought in before my setup pitcher?

Here is the page to my roster, nothing has been changed, this is how everything was setup before the sim.

http://cibl.classic-baseball.us/bosi...ts/team10.html

Any help would be appreciated

LeiterFanatic · 03-31-2005, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MogulChamp

Any help would be appreciated

I dont know about the closer issue, but this seems pretty realistic for 1987...
"Date: Thursday, 4/30/1987
Subject: Al Leiter healing process
Al Leiter is not recovering as fast as I have
hoped! So expect his injury to last about 14 more days.

Regards,
Team Doctor"

Just had to comment....

Qwerty75 · 03-31-2005, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MogulChamp

Well now...I thought it was fixed, but this is kind of weird.

http://cibl.classic-baseball.us/bosi...ts/box289.html

Can someone please explain why my closer pitched 4 innings? And was brought in before my setup pitcher?

Here is the page to my roster, nothing has been changed, this is how everything was setup before the sim.

http://cibl.classic-baseball.us/bosi...ts/team10.html

Any help would be appreciated

The only thing I can think of is that all your other relievers were tired ... possibility?

MogulChamp · 03-31-2005, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwerty75

The only thing I can think of is that all your other relievers were tired ... possibility?

Nope. I thought of that too. Hell they had hardly even pitched the days previous.

MogulChamp · 03-31-2005, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeiterFanatic

I dont know about the closer issue, but this seems pretty realistic for 1987...
"Date: Thursday, 4/30/1987
Subject: Al Leiter healing process
Al Leiter is not recovering as fast as I have
hoped! So expect his injury to last about 14 more days.

Regards,
Team Doctor"

Just had to comment....

Yeah I wasted my #1 on that bum. LOL. I kid..I kid...

Let's hope he develops because I desperately need pitching help. But that's beside the point.

jbmagic · 03-31-2005, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MogulChamp

Well now...I thought it was fixed, but this is kind of weird.

http://cibl.classic-baseball.us/bosi...ts/box289.html

Can someone please explain why my closer pitched 4 innings? And was brought in before my setup pitcher?

Here is the page to my roster, nothing has been changed, this is how everything was setup before the sim.

http://cibl.classic-baseball.us/bosi...ts/team10.html

Any help would be appreciated

be sure to goto team strategy and put your closer on a pitch count limit

Cardinal Rule · 03-31-2005, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbmagic

be sure to goto team strategy and put your closer on a pitch count limit

I'll echo that one - if you have a closer with a higher endurance he'll stay in the game if it goes to extra innings or if the rest of the bullpen is tired.

Word of caution though - remove that pitch count limit if you are in October and still fighting for the playoff spot or if you are in the playoffs. You'd hate to see your closer pitch the 9th, give up the tying run, then get pulled for your mopup reliever when the season is on the line.

Comedian2004 · 03-31-2005, 10:15 PM

I started a fiction league that started in 1950 and I am in 1958 now. The most saves I have ever seen was 31 so far. But since I am playing in the 50's, is that why?

In a season I had going when the change was made, the save leader had between 40-50, which sound better. This was a season that began in 2004.

Malleus Dei · 03-31-2005, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardinal Rule

I'll echo that one - if you have a closer with a higher endurance he'll stay in the game if it goes to extra innings or if the rest of the bullpen is tired.

Word of caution though - remove that pitch count limit if you are in October and still fighting for the playoff spot or if you are in the playoffs. You'd hate to see your closer pitch the 9th, give up the tying run, then get pulled for your mopup reliever when the season is on the line.

I would echo this point: be very, very careful with pitch count limits. Unpleasant things can happen if you aren't.

Karl Marx · 04-01-2005, 05:47 AM

So what do you think is a good count for the closer?

Cardinal Rule · 04-01-2005, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karl Marx

So what do you think is a good count for the closer?

If I set a pitch count for my closer I would probably set it around 35 or 40. If you set it lower you run the risk of the closer getting yanked if he gets himself into a jam - which might be a good thing but ultimately if you still have the lead you probably would rather your closer stay in even if he's laboring to get through the inning.

But I usually don't set the pitch count since I like to go with an 11-man staff and have at least one setup guy that is pretty respectable - kind of the 'closer-in-waiting' situation like Anaheim has had with Percival and Rodriguez the past couple years - so if my closer is tired the setup guy usually gets the call to close and does a solid job. I just try to keep a close eye on whether my bullpen is all getting tired at the same time - if that happens I'll try to bring up someone from AAA who can be an innings-eater for a couple games.

endgame · 04-01-2005, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karl Marx

So what do you think is a good count for the closer?

Of course you can't control, necessarily, the game situation unless you're playing the game out --- but I'd elect to err on the side of closer-confidence:
i.e. 6 batters, 5 pitches each - 30 pitch count - hopefully equals 3-6 outs.

If he's in deep with more than 6 batters over 2 innings, I'd like to think I have a capable setup man who'd bring it home.

Kemp · 04-02-2005, 11:00 PM

I've been running a number of tests with 6.12 and I'm having an issue with closers getting saves. Oddly enough, I DIDN'T have this problem before!

Over 162 games, the most I'm seeing is about 18 saves by any one pitcher.

Maple Leafs · 04-03-2005, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeiterFanatic

I dont know about the closer issue, but this seems pretty realistic for 1987...
"Date: Thursday, 4/30/1987
Subject: Al Leiter healing process
Al Leiter is not recovering as fast as I have
hoped! So expect his injury to last about 14 more days.

Regards,
Team Doctor"

Just had to comment....

I just got this one:

Quote:

"Date: Thursday, 4/30/1989
Subject: Al Leiter healing process
You have been incredibly patient with Al Leiter, even though he's struggled with blister problems his whole career and most teams would have cut him and buried his pro career. As way of thanks, he will be leaving as a FA in the offseason for more money.

Regards,
Toronto Team Doctor"

Aordolin · 04-20-2005, 05:43 PM

Ive finally gotton around to actually having the time to mess with my solo league agian and guess what.. 6.12 didnt fix jack in regards to the saves issue. Im beginning to wonder if it was even tested at all. Because the same damn problem still exists. Oh there are changes.. some teams actually did seem to get realistic closer numbers in regards to saves, but if a team has a deep bullpen especially you still end up with 50+ saves divided up between 2-3 players. The main problem really is the closers are not even getting in the damn game to begin with. The closer should be getting into more than 39 games for a team that wins 94 games.. dont you think? Its a shame that this had to be so horribly mishandled when there was nothing wrong with it from 6.03.. if you wanted to fix it why couldnt you go back to what wasnt broke. I shouldnt have to play a more bug ridden version of the game just to get realistic saves numbers. I guess I will have to live with it since it doesnt seem like it will ever be fixed properly.

For you guys who arent having this problem I would really be interested in seeing what you are doing. Im using modern settings and am not doing anythign different when i was getting good numbers before applying the 6.12 patch. I am really fed up and frustrated with this.

03-28-2005, 11:17 PM	#3
BondsFanatic Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 40	I think it is a matter of designating your MR as a closer on his role tab. Simply placing a MR in the closer slot on the pitching staff screen will lead to a bullpen by committee type of system leading to more save opportunities to your setups. I'm still using the 6.11 patch and the save opportunities seem realistic to me. Last edited by BondsFanatic; 03-28-2005 at 11:18 PM.

03-31-2005, 10:15 PM	#13
Comedian2004 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: In a house in Saint Cloud, Florida. Posts: 7,085	I started a fiction league that started in 1950 and I am in 1958 now. The most saves I have ever seen was 31 so far. But since I am playing in the 50's, is that why? In a season I had going when the change was made, the save leader had between 40-50, which sound better. This was a season that began in 2004. __________________ Like BLUES? Visit www.smokestacklightnin.com, you will LOVE it! New show every Monday!! New Blues HOF![/COLOR][/FONT]

04-01-2005, 05:47 AM	#15
Karl Marx Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 213	So what do you think is a good count for the closer? __________________ "The art of remembering and forgetting will also insure against sticking fast in some relationship of life, and make possible the realization of a complete freedom." Kierkegaard

04-20-2005, 05:43 PM	#20
Aordolin All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 586	Fire the monkeys you had playtest 6.12 Ive finally gotton around to actually having the time to mess with my solo league agian and guess what.. 6.12 didnt fix jack in regards to the saves issue. Im beginning to wonder if it was even tested at all. Because the same damn problem still exists. Oh there are changes.. some teams actually did seem to get realistic closer numbers in regards to saves, but if a team has a deep bullpen especially you still end up with 50+ saves divided up between 2-3 players. The main problem really is the closers are not even getting in the damn game to begin with. The closer should be getting into more than 39 games for a team that wins 94 games.. dont you think? Its a shame that this had to be so horribly mishandled when there was nothing wrong with it from 6.03.. if you wanted to fix it why couldnt you go back to what wasnt broke. I shouldnt have to play a more bug ridden version of the game just to get realistic saves numbers. I guess I will have to live with it since it doesnt seem like it will ever be fixed properly. For you guys who arent having this problem I would really be interested in seeing what you are doing. Im using modern settings and am not doing anythign different when i was getting good numbers before applying the 6.12 patch. I am really fed up and frustrated with this.

03-28-2005, 10:05 PM	#2
sporr Global Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Muscatine, IA Posts: 8,277	Well actually the problem wasn't the total number of saves league-wide, it was the fact that the saves seemed to be too spread out. The patch tried to address this by having the AI bring the designated closer into more save situations.

03-31-2005, 12:54 AM	#6
MogulChamp All Star Reserve Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 656	Well now...I thought it was fixed, but this is kind of weird. http://cibl.classic-baseball.us/bosi...ts/box289.html Can someone please explain why my closer pitched 4 innings? And was brought in before my setup pitcher? Here is the page to my roster, nothing has been changed, this is how everything was setup before the sim. http://cibl.classic-baseball.us/bosi...ts/team10.html Any help would be appreciated

04-02-2005, 11:00 PM	#18
Kemp All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,181	I've been running a number of tests with 6.12 and I'm having an issue with closers getting saves. Oddly enough, I DIDN'T have this problem before! Over 162 games, the most I'm seeing is about 18 saves by any one pitcher.