Catobase and Closers

koohead · 03-26-2005, 02:09 AM

Was looking at my first 10 years of the FBL, and noticed that the HOF standards leaderboard didn't contain any closers. Looking at some of the career leaders in saves, I see that they do have rankings above 20...one as high as 37. Any reason they don't show on the HOF Standard leaderboard?
And looking at how that standard is calculated, it doesn't reward saves in any way...or is it just not documented as such?

zoraster · 03-28-2005, 08:04 AM

I'd guess saves simply don't feature. The HOF standard was a Bill James formula, and of course he is in the no such thing as positive clutch camp. On that basis an out in the ninth is no different to an out in the eight, ergo a save would be a meaningless stat. I could be totally wrong but I'd imagine he simply ignored saves altogether. A closer would have to earn his points like any other pitcher.

koohead · 03-28-2005, 08:55 PM

I can understand that Bill James' formula doesn't award Saves, but I guess my question is more specifically related to Catobase.

For example, look at this player:
http://kooworld.com/FBL/players/g/gourdejoe641.html

If ya scroll down, you'll see that he has a HOF Standard score of 37.

But if you look at the HOF Standard leaderboard, he doesn't show up.
http://kooworld.com/FBL/lboards/carhofspit.html

follow me?

<o> · 03-28-2005, 09:26 PM

What's the minimum inning set to?

<o> · 03-28-2005, 09:28 PM

It looks lke he doesn't have enough innings to qualify. I could be wrong because I've been too frustrated in the past by catobase to really get into it, but that's my first guess. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will be by to correct me if I'm wrong.

zoraster · 03-29-2005, 11:47 AM

I believe the requirement in Cato is 500 IP, but that would leave the above example over (albeit just by a single inning) the mark.

<o> · 03-29-2005, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoraster

I believe the requirement in Cato is 500 IP, but that would leave the above example over (albeit just by a single inning) the mark.

Mine is set to 1000 IP. But I was just throwing that out there.

koohead · 03-29-2005, 11:47 PM

Well, the Minimum innings thing can't be true, because the career saves leader is way over 500 IP (I left it at default of 500). Interesting thing is, he doesn't even "qualify" with a HOF score...while the closer I linked above does. I haven't done that math, but I think saves mean nothing to James and a closer would have to earn their stripes through wins, K's, and all that other stuff...in far fewer innings. Kinda tough if you ask me.

gcsii99 · 03-30-2005, 02:46 AM

Looks like it is minimum innings....I looked at the Catobase for my solo league and for those relievers with under 1000 IP, they aren't shown on the HOF standard leaderboard...whereas for those over 1000 IP they are...you'll also notice that there are no pitchers in that list under 1000 IP.

I imagine that it just hardcoded that way into Catobase and thus cant be changed unless you have access to the code.

koohead · 03-30-2005, 06:20 PM

Thanks! Hopefully the closers who are around for a while will show up on that leaderboard. Thanks for the research!

03-26-2005, 02:09 AM	#1
koohead Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 3,233	Catobase and Closers Was looking at my first 10 years of the FBL, and noticed that the HOF standards leaderboard didn't contain any closers. Looking at some of the career leaders in saves, I see that they do have rankings above 20...one as high as 37. Any reason they don't show on the HOF Standard leaderboard? And looking at how that standard is calculated, it doesn't reward saves in any way...or is it just not documented as such? __________________ GM - New Jersey Bears of the NPBL;

03-28-2005, 08:55 PM	#3
koohead Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 3,233	Okay...I follow ya...but I can understand that Bill James' formula doesn't award Saves, but I guess my question is more specifically related to Catobase. For example, look at this player: http://kooworld.com/FBL/players/g/gourdejoe641.html If ya scroll down, you'll see that he has a HOF Standard score of 37. But if you look at the HOF Standard leaderboard, he doesn't show up. http://kooworld.com/FBL/lboards/carhofspit.html follow me? __________________ GM - New Jersey Bears of the NPBL;

03-29-2005, 11:47 PM	#8
koohead Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 3,233	Min Innings Well, the Minimum innings thing can't be true, because the career saves leader is way over 500 IP (I left it at default of 500). Interesting thing is, he doesn't even "qualify" with a HOF score...while the closer I linked above does. I haven't done that math, but I think saves mean nothing to James and a closer would have to earn their stripes through wins, K's, and all that other stuff...in far fewer innings. Kinda tough if you ask me. __________________ GM - New Jersey Bears of the NPBL;

03-30-2005, 02:46 AM	#9
gcsii99 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Acworth, GA Posts: 220	Looks like it is minimum innings....I looked at the Catobase for my solo league and for those relievers with under 1000 IP, they aren't shown on the HOF standard leaderboard...whereas for those over 1000 IP they are...you'll also notice that there are no pitchers in that list under 1000 IP. I imagine that it just hardcoded that way into Catobase and thus cant be changed unless you have access to the code. __________________ Be still Taggert...My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought, cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives. Last edited by gcsii99; 03-30-2005 at 02:48 AM.

03-30-2005, 06:20 PM	#10
koohead Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 3,233	ah..1k innings. Thanks! Hopefully the closers who are around for a while will show up on that leaderboard. Thanks for the research! __________________ GM - New Jersey Bears of the NPBL;

03-28-2005, 08:04 AM	#2
zoraster Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 197	I'd guess saves simply don't feature. The HOF standard was a Bill James formula, and of course he is in the no such thing as positive clutch camp. On that basis an out in the ninth is no different to an out in the eight, ergo a save would be a meaningless stat. I could be totally wrong but I'd imagine he simply ignored saves altogether. A closer would have to earn his points like any other pitcher.

03-29-2005, 11:47 AM	#6
zoraster Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 197	I believe the requirement in Cato is 500 IP, but that would leave the above example over (albeit just by a single inning) the mark.