Good news: minimal threats to OOTP6 from new baseball games

[Shaun Sullivan]

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

PureSim is, IMO, not ready for prime time unless you just want to sim all your games, in which case it's not too bad at all. Download it and try it out (it was shareware last time I looked), as you might like it. I don't, but your mileage may vary.

So, for a career-based baseball game where you manage your games, good news: it's still OOTP.

Any feedback on what aspect of the in game manager experience should be improved would be greatly appreciated! Send me a note or post over on the PureSim boards.

I making a huge push for an opening day update to PureSim 2005.

[rwd59]

Shaun,
I bought Puresim 4 (when I had problems with OOTP) and have downloaded the shareware versions of Puresim 5. There are things in the game I do enjoy and would happily play both if they met what I am looking for. I now stick exclusively to OOTP. I am a historical player only. There are still historical problems with OOTP, mainly in the way it chooses to import players. However; I can play with only historical players. With Puresim if there are not 35 players (I believe that # is correct) then the game will generate fictional players to complete the roster. Until that is gone, I can't play the game. I do not want any fictional players in my historical replay. If there is a way to get around that I would gladly return to try the game again.

[Ben E Lou]

The man asks for feedback on his own boards, yet still...

[rwd59]

Is your name Shaun? Thats who I wrote the reply to. I also added a copy to his boards as well. He does visit both, as he has said on his boards before.

[crazyhorsejohnny]

Originally Posted by Delgadodawg

Or you could just stop posting.

And you?

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by rwd59

Is your name Shaun? Thats who I wrote the reply to. I also added a copy to his boards as well. He does visit both, as he has said on his boards before.

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/showpost.php?p=904450&postcount=80

Originally Posted by Shaun Sullivan

BTW, out of respect for OOTP I'd prefer to take this discussion to the PureSim board.

Seems we ought to honor his request.

[rem]

Well, in fairness...the last time I checked his board was a real pain in the ass to register for.

[Malleus Dei]

Originally Posted by Shaun Sullivan

Any feedback on what aspect of the in game manager experience should be improved would be greatly appreciated! Send me a note or post over on the PureSim boards.

Shaun, from my email to you of 1/24: "- increase the strategic and managerial options available in-game, see Diamond Mind and OOTP for ideas or email me if you want a list." You never mentioned to me that you wanted the list, so I never sent it to you, but I will now.

[Malleus Dei]

It's amazing the stuff that people post. I'm a big admirer of Tom Tippett and an owner and player of DMB, and I own Puresim and communicate with Shaun now and then about how I think he could improve it, but somehow some of you think I'm an OOTP fanboy - even though when I started supporting OOTP back in the somewhat-less-than-stellar version 1 days there were about four of us total behind the game. LOL. Plus not long ago I was being taken to task by some of the same people yarping at me in this thread for helping to lead the fight to get OOTP6 patched, and some of them still complain about me leading the fight back in the OOTP3 days to keep the ability to print in OOTP, and you can't have done those things and be a fanboy. It just doesn't work both ways, and I frankly find all of the bogus interpretations in this thread to be rather funny.

So supposedly I can't post in Off Topic? LOL, news to me. News for you guys: I don't post there because I don't *want* to post in Off Topic, thank you very much.

Gee, I thought it was good news that there wasn't another game that did what OOTP did as well as it does. Sorry, I had no idea that some of you wanted so badly to spend more money on more games. My bad. As to the "competition would improve OOTP" mantra, here's my question for you:

If there *was* competition - let's assume that Game X appears tomorrow that is just as good as OOTP is at the moment - how much more could Markus improve OOTP than he is already improving it for OOTP7?

Let's see, he's doing a complete rewrite, a database revamp, customizable PbP, multiple leagues, etc, etc. What was it that you guys think that competition would drive Markus to do for OOTP7 that he isn't doing already?

My personal take on it is that Markus is taking his game to the next level as it is, even without the presence of serious competition. Based on what's been announced, do you have a different view of what Markus is doing?

And can we do this without the pointless I-don't-like-you flames, please? Thanks.

[bleachercreature]

I don't know how true it is, supposedly .989 Sports Major League Baseball has a good manage only mode.

[GForce]

Would another game having head-to-head have made Markus implement the feature as promised?

Certainly, the competition argument doesn't boil down to just that, but I think it's the kind of point people are getting at. Competition makes things better, generally. It inspires developers to work that much harder to improve their product, because they have to.

What more could Markus be doing? I honestly couldn't tell you as I haven't focused much on OOTP7. Others here would be much better versed than I in that regard.

And remember, Markus' improvements at this point are really just promises. Promises we expect to be fulfilled, but promises nonetheless.

GH

[Johnny Slick]

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

It's amazing the stuff that people post. I'm a big admirer of Tom Tippett and an owner and player of DMB, and I own Puresim and communicate with Shaun now and then about how I think he could improve it, but somehow some of you think I'm an OOTP fanboy - even though when I started supporting OOTP back in the somewhat-less-than-stellar version 1 days there were about four of us total behind the game. LOL. Plus not long ago I was being taken to task by some of the same people yarping at me in this thread for helping to lead the fight to get OOTP6 patched, and some of them still complain about me leading the fight back in the OOTP3 days to keep the ability to print in OOTP, and you can't have done those things and be a fanboy. It just doesn't work both ways, and I frankly find all of the bogus interpretations in this thread to be rather funny.

"I can't address the 'competition is good' argument, so instead I will puff up the fact that I jumped on board this particular bandwagon before the game was any good."

So supposedly I can't post in Off Topic? LOL, news to me. News for you guys: I don't post there because I don't *want* to post in Off Topic, thank you very much.

Not everything revolves around you, MD. The "OT" sub-thread, for example, had nothing to do with you.

Gee, I thought it was good news that there wasn't another game that did what OOTP did as well as it does.

Gee, I guess you were wrong! For a supposed conservative, you sure have a damn poor idea of how the free market works, or rather is supposed to work.

Sorry, I had no idea that some of you wanted so badly to spend more money on more games. My bad.

If I could spend a hundred dollars a year on 2 good manager sims, I would. I suspect that many if not most of the people on this board feel the same way. It's not ike this represents a significant percentage of any of our incomes.

As to the "competition would improve OOTP" mantra, here's my question for you:

If there *was* competition - let's assume that Game X appears tomorrow that is just as good as OOTP is at the moment - how much more could Markus improve OOTP than he is already improving it for OOTP7?

Did you even bother to read my posts? The whole point about competition is that it opens up channels for improvement that the original designers and, indeed, the original fan base never thought possible. I'd restate the argument, but then again, I already made it. Scroll up.

Let's see, he's doing a complete rewrite, a database revamp, customizable PbP, multiple leagues, etc, etc. What was it that you guys think that competition would drive Markus to do for OOTP7 that he isn't doing already?

I've made a couple of very long posts over the years about things that Markus could add but hasn't for whatever reason. Tool-based fielding, hidden scouting and coaching ratings, and managerial stability ratings, for three. And those are just ideas from one guy. There's no telling what, for example, Shaun Sullivan might decide to implement once PureSim is up to snuff.

My personal take on it is that Markus is taking his game to the next level as it is, even without the presence of serious competition.

Your personal take doesn't understand capitalism.

Based on what's been announced, do you have a different view of what Markus is doing?

I'm not saying that Markus isn't working his tail off and doing everything he believes he can do to make the game better. However, competition breeds improvement. The invisible hand thing again. Scroll up.

And can we do this without the pointless I-don't-like-you flames, please? Thanks.

I'm not a big fan of the flames either, but what did you expect, MD? When you treat everyone who disagrees with you like dirt, did you really believe you were going to be treated like royalty when you made a comment that was, objectively speaking, not very bright?

[Malleus Dei]

Originally Posted by Johnny Slick

Not everything revolves around you, MD. The "OT" sub-thread, for example, had nothing to do with you.

I was responding to the line "Or maybe post it in off-topic, but we all know you aren't allowed to post there." which was addressed to me by (O)<o>, the well-known alias.

Originally Posted by Johnny Slick

Gee, I guess you were wrong! For a supposed conservative, you sure have a damn poor idea of how the free market works, or rather is supposed to work...Your personal take doesn't understand capitalism...competition breeds improvement. The invisible hand thing again. Scroll up.

I co-own a business, and understand capitalism perfectly well. As a young man, I worked for a capitalist who made the best products he could possibly make...and he had zero competition. They call it the work ethic, or professionalism

Originally Posted by Johnny Slick

I'm not a big fan of the flames either, but what did you expect, MD? When you treat everyone who disagrees with you like dirt, did you really believe you were going to be treated like royalty when you made a comment that was, objectively speaking, not very bright?

What part of "And can we do this without the pointless I-don't-like-you flames, please? Thanks." can't you understand? I don't like you either, but I'm not flaming you. Can we discuss this subject without the flames, or is that the only way that some of you can discuss things?</o>

[Malleus Dei]

Originally Posted by bleachercreature

I don't know how true it is, supposedly .989 Sports Major League Baseball has a good manage only mode.

Thanks, I'll go check it out.

[Malleus Dei]

It appears that the arguments of some of you come down to "without competition, OOTP won't get any better."

Almost none of you were around back in the Version 1 days. From those days until Puresim appeared, OOTP was the only career-oriented manager-based text PC baseball game extant. Diamond Mind did season replays only; if you wanted a career-based game, OOTP was it. There was no competition.

And yet OOTP kept getting better. Updates and new versions improved the game. Markus kept on asking what we users wanted, and he consistently made the game better. With no competition.

Version after version, Markus has improved OOTP. With competition, without competition, it didn't make any difference, he has kept on trying to make it batter. And he added team members (Steve, Andreas) and made strategic alliances (.400, SI) to improve his ability to make the game better and support it better.

Like I posted earlier, as a young man I worked for a capitalist who had no competition in his field. I asked around to find out why and got the answer back: no one could make a better product than he did for what he was selling his for, and given the customer loyalty that he had earned, nobody was even going to try.

Sure, competetion can make for better goods and improved services, but goods and services can be good - and can get better - even without it.

[TonyJ]

I don't think anyone is denying that OOTP would get better without competition. I think they are saying that it will not improve as much without competition as it would with it. Which is pretty hard to argue with since it is true of any part of a capitalist economy. In fact, it is the entire underpinning of the system.

[espy984]

I've been playing around with a beta of the new Baseball Mogul, and theres alot of promise feature wise in this edition.

There are new personality ratings... players have a demeanor (eg. modest, greedy), they have friends on other teams that they might demand a trade to if they are unhappy. A player can also be unhappy if he is on a losing team, has a poor role, etc. Someone with a certain personality type will indicate he sign for whoever offers him the most money, another player might prefer to play somewhere warm. It really adds a whole layer of depth to the game

Player negotations have been expanded a great deal... check out the pic.

The minor leagues have been expanded. Theres a true amateur draft now

Automatic expansion and contraction as you go through the years... the idea is that the Devil Rays/DBacks would be added after the 1997 season.

The interferance is now easily skinnable... and theres all these fancy color effects. Hot diggity.

Historical rookies and an all time leader board will be present... you would be able to draft Barry Bonds in 1984 or whatever, for instance.

There are some nice subtle changes such as a summary screen, that shows all injured players, your top prospects etc. Theres also arbitration and major league service time. Some other things such as fan favorites have yet to be implemented.

And its got all the good stuff its had for years, Lahman database, very fast simulating, easy to use interferances.

Unfortunately it doesnt look like making in game decisions made the cut, and there arent lefty/righty splits... and there is no Rule 5 draft/Waivers... in any case, the new features are overwhelming.

[darkhorse]

Originally Posted by TonyJ

Which is pretty hard to argue with since it is true of any part of a capitalist economy. In fact, it is the entire underpinning of the system.

That's news to me. I thought corporate welfare was the bulwark of capitalism.

[Malleus Dei]

Originally Posted by TonyJ

I don't think anyone is denying that OOTP would get better without competition. I think they are saying that it will not improve as much without competition as it would with it. Which is pretty hard to argue with since it is true of any part of a capitalist economy. In fact, it is the entire underpinning of the system.

To the heart of that argument - "I think they are saying that it will not improve as much without competition as it would with it" - my response is that while that's possible, and even perhaps probable, it's not certain.

[Malleus Dei]

Originally Posted by darkhorse

That's news to me. I thought corporate welfare was the bulwark of capitalism.

DH, can we please leave the political infighting to Off Topic?