RI something Pete Rose

Syd Thrift · 09-30-2024, 08:21 PM

https://www.tmz.com/2024/09/30/pete-rose-dead/

I’m not going to dance on someone’s grave so I’ll just leave it at this: the Hall did not in the end cave in and put him in, and I’m happy for that.

Cobra Mgr · 09-30-2024, 09:13 PM

MVM. Go here.

Delete if you can mods

Cobra Mgr · 09-30-2024, 09:17 PM

Didn't know you posted about this already. I expected it to be at the top.

uruguru · 09-30-2024, 09:37 PM

RIP Charlie Hustle. "I would walk through hell in a gasoline suit to play baseball"

There was no player who played the game with the passion he had. He is a shining example of how the game should be played, and he was the kind of player you hated because he wasn't on your team.

I will be wearing my Rose-14 jersey tomorrow.

monkeyman576 · 09-30-2024, 10:06 PM

No one ever proved that any bet he made effected an outcome on the baseball field, and if no one on the '17 Astros is banned then he should not be. Let the best hitter in baseaball history in the hall.

uruguru · 09-30-2024, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monkeyman576

No one ever proved that any bet he made effected an outcome on the baseball field, and if no one on the '17 Astros is banned then he should not be. Let the best hitter in baseaball history in the hall.

Dude, I am an Astros fan and nothing in baseball outraged me as much as what that team did in 2017. I cannot believe how easily they got off. Off-field cheating (i.e. cheating that cannot be detected on field by umpires) is the worst form of cheating. The steroid abuse of the late 1990s is obviously the most extreme example of this.

AJ Hinch should have been permanently banned for allowing his players to do that. He knew about it and said nothing. I would have given the team the death penalty and forced them to restart the franchise from scratch. That is how outrageous what they did was. And of course the Red Sox somehow got a pass.

Pete Rose bet on his team to win. Of course he did. He absolutely should have been suspended for that behavior, but of course the punishment given was one intended for players who literally threw games. There are only two examples of that: The Black Sox (permanent bans) and future Hall of Famers Tris Speaker/Ty Cobb (both forced to retire).

mytreds · 09-30-2024, 10:16 PM

The HoF is a joke, for many reasons.

RIP Charlie Hustle.

CONN CHRIS · 09-30-2024, 10:17 PM

Growing up in the 70s, I loved Pete.

Great example of how to play the game and how not to live your life.

Sad to see him go, sad to think about what could have been, frankly a little angry at what he did to this kid's childhood memories. It's complicated for me.

mytreds · 09-30-2024, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uruguru

Pete Rose bet on his team to win.

Apparently he did not when Mario Soto was pitching.

uruguru · 09-30-2024, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mytreds

Apparently he did not when Mario Soto was pitching.

See? This guy gets it. Pete Rose clearly did not bet on every game.

Appreciate the support, dude.

Ty Cobb · 09-30-2024, 11:18 PM

Absolutely agree with Chris on this. Pete was complicated. Bart bore a lot of burden for the call he made. Maybe both can finally rest.

LouisSVillano · 10-01-2024, 12:00 AM

I think Pete Rose should have been in the Hall of Fame.
I've already posted this on another site and I felt I had to post here too.
Baseball & sports are full of players and organizations that were and are flawed.
Steroids were blamed for all the games evils while amphetamines ran wild for decades. The list of what shouldn't have been done but was done in sports is to long to list.
If there's a case to be made that stats are tainted,then can the case be made for all MLB stats are meaningless before 1947 because a man could be denied a spot on the roster because of the color of his skin.
Please excuse my rant.
Today I'm bitter. I'm a die-hard life long Mets fan who both loved & hated Pete Rose.
But I never did nor will I ever question his integrity.
I saw him play and booed him. I met him in Las Vegas & briefly reminisced with him.
I will never forget how hard he played the game.
Rest in peace Pete !

Jason Moyer · 10-01-2024, 12:14 AM

Solid ballplayer for 17 years. Current bWAR formulae has him tied with Curt Schilling in career WAR which is wild, that probably makes them the 2 most deserving guys not in the hall who aren't being punished for taking drugs that were part of baseball for over 40 years. Hopefully they can honor his memory now and put him in with Jim Gray.

Syd Thrift · 10-01-2024, 01:28 PM

There are all kinds of reasons why you don't allow people who bet sporadically on their own team to engage in baseball and that includes the Hall. Now that he's passed, I expect we'll get a big upsurge in "OMG LET HIM IIIIN" talk but that should thankfully die down in a couple years since he's no longer around to play the poor poor victim of evil Bart Giamatti and his evil conscience and evil need to protect the integrity of the game.

CONN CHRIS · 10-01-2024, 02:02 PM

.

mytreds · 10-01-2024, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

There are all kinds of reasons why you don't allow people who bet sporadically on their own team to engage in baseball and that includes the Hall. Now that he's passed, I expect we'll get a big upsurge in "OMG LET HIM IIIIN" talk but that should thankfully die down in a couple years since he's no longer around to play the poor poor victim of evil Bart Giamatti and his evil conscience and evil need to protect the integrity of the game.

Maybe you had access to his mind, I don’t know. But from the interviews I saw in his final years, he never spoke ill of Giamatti. In fact, Rose claimed he was on good terms with him. Rose also stated that he accepted the fact the he wouldn't get in while he was alive- he’d come to terms and made peace with that reality. The only saltiness that I observed in interviews was towards the Cincinnati Reds, for constantly profiting on his name and brand, and the HoF for having several of his memorabilia on display while he himself is barred.

Amazin69 · 10-01-2024, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

People mock me for criticizing nearly everything that Manly Rob Manfred does…but isn't this the height of hypocrisy? Way to undercut Giamatti's decision, as well as the decisions of Faye Vincent and Bud Selig to stand by it.

JMO.

uruguru · 10-01-2024, 02:45 PM

If Pete Rose consistently didn't bet on Mario Soto's games, that tells me that Soto was having a bad year and, despite being a compulsive gambler, Rose wasn't stupid.

I have zero confidence that if Pete had indeed bet on Soto's games that any of his critics would suddenly turn around and say, "oh, he bet indiscriminately so now I think it's ok".

It's really just thrown out as a bad-faith canard to suggest that Rose was tipping off to other people which doesn't make any sense. If he was going to do that, he wouldn't do that with the same mediocre pitcher every time because then that pattern would be indistinguishable from Pete just not wanting to make a bad bet. Which is almost certainly what it was.

Rose didn't throw games like the Black Sox, or Ty Cobb or Tris Speaker. Rose didn't cheat like the multitude of players who secretly took steroids (Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, etc) and basically took a massive dump on the game's statistical record. Or like the 2017 Astros. He bet on his team to win, which is unsurprising given his competitiveness.

It's not right, but it's not surprising. And it's certainly worthy of a suspension.

But the animosity towards Rose was baked in because, for about 10 years, what he did was the worst sin in baseball. So when all of the far greater sins started occurring, people were just too emotionally invested in the "Rose is terrible" mantra to step back and recalibrate their opinion in the context of what happened in the 90s which was far, far worse. There are people who honestly believe that Rose betting to win is worse than the rampant cheating that happened in the 90s. It boggles the mind

uruguru · 10-01-2024, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amazin69

People mock me for criticizing nearly everything that Manly Rob Manfred does…but isn't this the height of hypocrisy? Way to undercut Giamatti's decision, as well as the decisions of Faye Vincent and Bud Selig to stand by it.

JMO.

Pretty sure that has to be a joke.

CONN CHRIS · 10-01-2024, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uruguru

Pretty sure that has to be a joke.

Dark humor to be precise I suppose.

09-30-2024, 09:13 PM	#2
Cobra Mgr Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Parts unknown Posts: 8,711	Pete Rose dead @ 83. MVM. Go here. Delete if you can mods __________________ If a man is guilty 4 what goes on inside of his mind, then let me get the electric chair 4 all my future crimes. - Prince Batdance June 7, 1958 - Apr 21, 2016 Don't fall for the spin Last edited by Cobra Mgr; 09-30-2024 at 09:18 PM.

09-30-2024, 09:17 PM	#3
Cobra Mgr Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Parts unknown Posts: 8,711	Didn't know you posted about this already. I expected it to be at the top. __________________ If a man is guilty 4 what goes on inside of his mind, then let me get the electric chair 4 all my future crimes. - Prince Batdance June 7, 1958 - Apr 21, 2016 Don't fall for the spin

09-30-2024, 09:37 PM	#4
uruguru All Star Starter Join Date: May 2022 Posts: 1,268	RIP Charlie Hustle. "I would walk through hell in a gasoline suit to play baseball" There was no player who played the game with the passion he had. He is a shining example of how the game should be played, and he was the kind of player you hated because he wasn't on your team. I will be wearing my Rose-14 jersey tomorrow. Last edited by uruguru; 10-01-2024 at 10:47 AM.

09-30-2024, 10:16 PM	#7
mytreds All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2019 Posts: 1,182	The HoF is a joke, for many reasons. RIP Charlie Hustle. __________________ “Baseball isn’t statistics; it’s Joe DiMaggio rounding second.” “Once, centuries ago, it was the beloved national pastime of the Americas, Wesley. Abandoned by a society that prized fast food and faster games. Lost to impatience.” “ The term ‘WAR’ should be replaced by ‘WAG’. WAR isn’t an actual measurement; it’s just a wild-ass guess” -Bill James RIP National League 1876-2022 Floreat semper vel invita morte. I make custom ballparks.

09-30-2024, 10:17 PM	#8
CONN CHRIS Global Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 29,014	Growing up in the 70s, I loved Pete. Great example of how to play the game and how not to live your life. Sad to see him go, sad to think about what could have been, frankly a little angry at what he did to this kid's childhood memories. It's complicated for me. __________________ Check Out My Cards!

09-30-2024, 10:06 PM	#5
monkeyman576 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 3,642	No one ever proved that any bet he made effected an outcome on the baseball field, and if no one on the '17 Astros is banned then he should not be. Let the best hitter in baseaball history in the hall.

09-30-2024, 11:18 PM	#11
Ty Cobb Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Grayling, MI Posts: 4,586	Absolutely agree with Chris on this. Pete was complicated. Bart bore a lot of burden for the call he made. Maybe both can finally rest. __________________ "You could not live with your own failure. Where did that bring you? Back to me." Thanos

10-01-2024, 12:00 AM	#12
LouisSVillano Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Florida Posts: 154	Rest in peace Pete ! I think Pete Rose should have been in the Hall of Fame. I've already posted this on another site and I felt I had to post here too. Baseball & sports are full of players and organizations that were and are flawed. Steroids were blamed for all the games evils while amphetamines ran wild for decades. The list of what shouldn't have been done but was done in sports is to long to list. If there's a case to be made that stats are tainted,then can the case be made for all MLB stats are meaningless before 1947 because a man could be denied a spot on the roster because of the color of his skin. Please excuse my rant. Today I'm bitter. I'm a die-hard life long Mets fan who both loved & hated Pete Rose. But I never did nor will I ever question his integrity. I saw him play and booed him. I met him in Las Vegas & briefly reminisced with him. I will never forget how hard he played the game. Rest in peace Pete ! Last edited by LouisSVillano; 10-01-2024 at 03:36 AM.

10-01-2024, 12:14 AM	#13
Jason Moyer Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 5,076	Solid ballplayer for 17 years. Current bWAR formulae has him tied with Curt Schilling in career WAR which is wild, that probably makes them the 2 most deserving guys not in the hall who aren't being punished for taking drugs that were part of baseball for over 40 years. Hopefully they can honor his memory now and put him in with Jim Gray. __________________ "I pretty much popped everything cold turkey. We were doing steroids they wouldn't give to horses." -- Tom House "I was very fortunate to have a pitching coach by the name of Tom House...Tom, I really miss those days that we spent in the weight room and out on the field working together." -- Nolan Ryan's HoF Induction Speech

10-01-2024, 02:02 PM	#15
CONN CHRIS Global Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 29,014	. Attached Images __________________ Check Out My Cards!

10-01-2024, 02:45 PM	#18
uruguru All Star Starter Join Date: May 2022 Posts: 1,268	If Pete Rose consistently didn't bet on Mario Soto's games, that tells me that Soto was having a bad year and, despite being a compulsive gambler, Rose wasn't stupid. I have zero confidence that if Pete had indeed bet on Soto's games that any of his critics would suddenly turn around and say, "oh, he bet indiscriminately so now I think it's ok". It's really just thrown out as a bad-faith canard to suggest that Rose was tipping off to other people which doesn't make any sense. If he was going to do that, he wouldn't do that with the same mediocre pitcher every time because then that pattern would be indistinguishable from Pete just not wanting to make a bad bet. Which is almost certainly what it was. Rose didn't throw games like the Black Sox, or Ty Cobb or Tris Speaker. Rose didn't cheat like the multitude of players who secretly took steroids (Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, etc) and basically took a massive dump on the game's statistical record. Or like the 2017 Astros. He bet on his team to win, which is unsurprising given his competitiveness. It's not right, but it's not surprising. And it's certainly worthy of a suspension. But the animosity towards Rose was baked in because, for about 10 years, what he did was the worst sin in baseball. So when all of the far greater sins started occurring, people were just too emotionally invested in the "Rose is terrible" mantra to step back and recalibrate their opinion in the context of what happened in the 90s which was far, far worse. There are people who honestly believe that Rose betting to win is worse than the rampant cheating that happened in the 90s. It boggles the mind Last edited by uruguru; 10-01-2024 at 02:48 PM.