2022-2023 NBA Season Thread

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

I’m sorry man but if you walk up to a ref holding a camera you’re asking to be kicked out in any sport. It’s one step north of walking up to them and trying to hand them glasses. I’m generally not a fan of refs/umpires being overly sanctimonious but this is way over the line.

Oh I know what to expect. I'm just saying it shouldn't be. It's no different from when people cuss out police officers. I'm sure they are going to find some way to arrest them. But you are allowed to do that.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by thehef

As far as the league issuing their 'last two minutes report' ... That supposedly is done for transparency purposes; not to embarrass refs, although that can be part of it. Bev's display served no useful purpose. At all.

That all said, if you are in charge and you allow the type of shenanigans that PB pulled with the camera, then where do you draw the line on showing up refs? Can a player slam the ball to the court in frustration, while the whole team just screams at a ref, and the coach waves his arms in dismissive motions and calls the ref an blind-azz-effin' moron who must have money on the other team?

I disagree w/"no useful purpose". The ref may not be able to change his call. But sometimes all you want to hear is "I made a mistake. I'm sorry." And then you're good. I know that's how I am. As I said, "no one claims to be perfect, but somehow even fewer admit they were wrong."

And as far as the line for "showing up refs" there doesn't need to be a line. If adults want to act like babies let them. BE A MAN. Not letting your demeanor & actions be affected by childish jack donkeys is the epitome of dignity. Nothing irritates a gluteus maximus aperture more than seeing his trolling has zero affect.

[thehef]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

I disagree w/"no useful purpose". The ref may not be able to change his call. But sometimes all you want to hear is "I made a mistake. I'm sorry." And then you're good. I know that's how I am. As I said, "no one claims to be perfect, but somehow even fewer admit they were wrong."

And as far as the line for "showing up refs" there doesn't need to be a line. If adults want to act like babies let them. BE A MAN. Not letting your demeanor & actions be affected by childish jack donkeys is the epitome of dignity. Nothing irritates a gluteus maximus aperture more than seeing his trolling has zero affect.

I suppose we can agree to disagree. I'd only take issue with the part where if PB simply wanted to hear "I made a mistake. I'm sorry," then he would've gone about in a more subtle & tactful manner, rather than making a bad situation worse. I mean, think about it: When you've felt wronged and felt someone should apologize, did you think that inflaming the situation was the way to go, or did you try to respectfully talk to the person? (Sure, sometimes, we think we want to hear "I'm sorry" but we really want to vent our anger or frustrations...)

Oh, and the lead ref did in fact admit - after he had a chance to review it - that they blew the non-call. Which is pretty much all you can ask for in that situation, IMO. (And for all we know, the refs may have communicated to James and/or his coach right afterwards or during OT that they may have blown the call, but simply didn't see the foul, if it occurred. I mean, that sort of communication, "Ya, maybe you were fouled but I didn't see it...") happens all the time...

And James' continued harping about the non-call, as if it were some sort of conspiracy, is pathetic.

[rudel.dietrich]

I am all in for when Beverly gets ejected. I am also of the opinion that any player in the league should be allowed to flagrant foul him at any time with non consequence. Even outside of games.
If a player wants to show up to his hotel room and elbow him in the face, then the league should allow it.

[thehef]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

I am all in for when Beverly gets ejected. I am also of the opinion that any player in the league should be allowed to flagrant foul him at any time with non consequence. Even outside of games.
If a player wants to show up to his hotel room and elbow him in the face, then the league should allow it.

Fair

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by thehef

I suppose we can agree to disagree. I'd only take issue with the part where if PB simply wanted to hear "I made a mistake. I'm sorry," then he would've gone about in a more subtle & tactful manner, rather than making a bad situation worse. I mean, think about it: When you've felt wronged and felt someone should apologize, did you think that inflaming the situation was the way to go, or did you try to respectfully talk to the person? (Sure, sometimes, we think we want to hear "I'm sorry" but we really want to vent our anger or frustrations...)

Oh, and the lead ref did in fact admit - after he had a chance to review it - that they blew the non-call. Which is pretty much all you can ask for in that situation, IMO. (And for all we know, the refs may have communicated to James and/or his coach right afterwards or during OT that they may have blown the call, but simply didn't see the foul, if it occurred. I mean, that sort of communication, "Ya, maybe you were fouled but I didn't see it...") happens all the time...

And James' continued harping about the non-call, as if it were some sort of conspiracy, is pathetic.

I don't think for a sec all that Bev wanted was an apology. The guy ain't never been about diplomacy. Point I'm making is even if it was for "nefarious" reasons, so what? What's wrong with just letting stupid people be stupid? The tech was all about the ref's ego & his sense of control. It wasn't about the game. Players gesture & demonstrate what they think happened on a play all the time. And now we have a problem w/photo evidence? That's no dif than letting someone call me dumb but punching him if he calls me a moron. Same thing happened in a different way. Don't disallow one and permit the other. I want referees, and authority figures in general, to be above all that. In a highly charged competitive occupation, let people's emotions speak. Showing a pic ain't showing anybody up.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

Oh I know what to expect. I'm just saying it shouldn't be. It's no different from when people cuss out police officers. I'm sure they are going to find some way to arrest them. But you are allowed to do that.

Okay but referees aren’t cops. They’re not out there to protect capital and make a mild effort to look like they “protect and serve” the middle and working class every now and then. They’re just guys whose job it is to settle disputes and enforce the rules for people who get paid a lot more money than they do. I get that missed calls can be frustrating sometimes but it’s just kind of a BS move to publicly and obviously show them up.

I have to say, one of the things I like about the NBA is that it’s a bit more laid back than other sports and it allows for whimsy. Whimsy never occurs in the NFL except by accident and although the nature of baseball allows a good amount to creep in, MLB takes itself way too seriously for there to be all that much. The NBA though, I don’t know if it’s because you’re right there next to the guys, or the long, long legacy of trash talk, or whatever but it’s a serious sport that is pretty well in touch with the lighter side.

My point is, I’m sure on some levels this is just more kidding around. And if Pat Bev did something like this to a teammate, I’d feel differently. Refs are guys whose job it is to stay out of the limelight and pretty much the only time they ever get into it, it’s negative. I’m not aware of any unspoken rules with basketball refs the way there are with baseball umpires, even (I think “no swearing” is maybe there but IME NBA refs put up with a lot sometimes). It’s just, well, a kind of jerky move coming from one of the bigger jerks in the league (with the disclaimer that since he doesn’t try to hurt players on purpose, he’s still like 5% the jerk that Grayson Allen is).

[thehef]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

I have to say, one of the things I like about the NBA is that it’s a bit more laid back than other sports and it allows for whimsy. Whimsy never occurs in the NFL except by accident and although the nature of baseball allows a good amount to creep in, MLB takes itself way too seriously for there to be all that much. The NBA though, I don’t know if it’s because you’re right there next to the guys, or the long, long legacy of trash talk, or whatever but it’s a serious sport that is pretty well in touch with the lighter side.

I think the reason for this is that the NBA, due to the proximity of the fans to the players on the court (and on the bench), and the fact that - as opposed the NFL - the players' faces are on clear display at all times, is a much-more personality driven league. And with that, we can clearly see small reactions and emotions or whatever much better than we can pick out an outside linebacker's reaction to something... I mean, if one NBA player is pissed at a call or non-call, we're going to notice it 9 times out of 10. In the NFL, there's probably a few players pissed after every play, but we don't typically notice unless it's a tantrum because we're watching a replay and hearing about the analysis of what just happened... We're in touch with the 10 players on the court at pretty much all times, whereas the NFL is usually mostly game pieces running around (except for the QB and maybe a few stars on particular plays). For better or worse; not judging. It is what it is.

[thehef]

Re that Celtics/Lakers game last Saturday evening: Apparently lost in the whining by James, etc., was the fact that not only did the NBA's "two minute report" say that the refs missed the foul call him, but they also missed an offensive foul by Davis on the play where Beverly had the put-back jam. So the idea that the refs - intentionally or not - robbed the L's pretty much falls apart...

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Okay but referees aren’t cops. They’re not out there to protect capital and make a mild effort to look like they “protect and serve” the middle and working class every now and then. They’re just guys whose job it is to settle disputes and enforce the rules for people who get paid a lot more money than they do. I get that missed calls can be frustrating sometimes but it’s just kind of a BS move to publicly and obviously show them up.

I have to say, one of the things I like about the NBA is that it’s a bit more laid back than other sports and it allows for whimsy. Whimsy never occurs in the NFL except by accident and although the nature of baseball allows a good amount to creep in, MLB takes itself way too seriously for there to be all that much. The NBA though, I don’t know if it’s because you’re right there next to the guys, or the long, long legacy of trash talk, or whatever but it’s a serious sport that is pretty well in touch with the lighter side.

My point is, I’m sure on some levels this is just more kidding around. And if Pat Bev did something like this to a teammate, I’d feel differently. Refs are guys whose job it is to stay out of the limelight and pretty much the only time they ever get into it, it’s negative. I’m not aware of any unspoken rules with basketball refs the way there are with baseball umpires, even (I think “no swearing” is maybe there but IME NBA refs put up with a lot sometimes). It’s just, well, a kind of jerky move coming from one of the bigger jerks in the league (with the disclaimer that since he doesn’t try to hurt players on purpose, he’s still like 5% the jerk that Grayson Allen is).

Refs are cops on the court. I'm not for authority punishing anyone cause their feelings got hurt. Plain & simple.

[thehef]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

Refs are cops on the court. I'm not for authority punishing anyone cause their feelings got hurt. Plain & simple.

Well, you got half of your wish. James got his feelings hurt by not being sent to the line, threw an epic tantrum, and wasn't punished

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by thehef

Well, you got half of your wish. James got his feelings hurt by not being sent to the line, threw an epic tantrum, and wasn't punished

Fine with me. They force athletes to meet the press immediately after game so they can have access to that raw emotion, then get mad when that raw emotion is put on display.

That's dumb.

[thehef]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

Fine with me. They force athletes to meet the press immediately after game so they can have access to that raw emotion, then get mad when that raw emotion is put on display.

That's dumb.

I don't disagree. James' tantrum after the non-call was unquestionably raw emotion (his continued harping about it, though, is childish, IMO). I don't think Pat Bev's camera thing was raw emotion; it was, IMO, calculated and served no purpose.

[rudel.dietrich]

I am doing research for the 1986 draft for my NBA 2K game and I don’t think I ever realized that Brad Daugherty entered UNC as a 16 year old freshman or that he did not start playing basketball until the 10th grade.

He held his own his first two years at UNC and then blossomed his Junior year.
I had no idea he was a college teammate of Jordan and Sam Perkins.

I knew he was a teammate of Kenny Smith since Kenny has brought him up before.


He turned into a very good NBA player before back injuries began to take their toll by the 92-93 season and he would have to retire at age 30 after not playing since the 93-94 season.

He is kind of forgotten about now. I had no idea he began college at 16. That was very cool to find out about.

[rudel.dietrich]

That draft also had so many ‘what ifs’

It had two all time great European players before the modern European players we have now or came to know in the 2000s.

Sabonis was drafted by Atlanta in 1985 in the fifth round (the NBA still drafted 162 players back then)
It was voided by the NBA after they found out he was under 21.

Portland would draft him the next season but he would not come over until the Iron curtain fell.
By then he was 31 and much slower but still amazingly skilled.

One of my childhood heroes, Dražen Petrović was also taken by Portland 60th overall. But he would not come over until he was age 25 and then barely players before he was dealt to New Jersey.
He was showing he was a scoring machine before he was killed in an auto accident in Germany in the summer of 1993.

And then of course the tragic story of Len Bias who died two days after draft day of a overdose.
He was taken #2 overall and could of been an all time player. At worst he was a long career starter.

That could of been an all time draft if not for injury, tragedy and geo politics and the NBA not yet realizing how talented international players were becoming.


Cocaine abuse really tore apart that draft.
It killed Bias. Roy Tarpley was talented but could not overcome addiction. And Chris Washburn and William Bedford were also affected.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by Antonin

Our own Donovan Mitchell a 2023 All-Star Game starter!

Antonin, you must be outraged over this!



This is a good view of the action. Watch closely as Brooks, face down, turns his head to the right and up, locating Mitchell. Then he does his arm-swinging turnover, right on target.



https://twitter.com/iam_johnw/status...an-mitchell%2F

[Cobra Mgr]

Donovan shouldn't have been ejected.

What do we expect human beings to do when someone does that? If Donovan did nothing he should have been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize.

[Déjà Bru]

I think I would end up in a penitentiary if I ran an NBA team. What would hold me back from launching myself over my desk at Kyrie Irving, when he now tells me that he wants to be traded before next Thursday? After having opted into his $37 million player option which pays him ... $37 million dollars for playing for my team the whole season.

"Sure, Kyrie, become a free agent next season if we cannot agree on a contract extension. Would you mind honoring your contractual agreement for this season, though? Please?"

My eyes shift to my assistant.

"I can see this is going nowhere. Look at his face. If I don't swing a deal for him in less than a week, at a steep discount in this situation, he's going to act up and mope around again ... For cryin' out loud. Hold me back. Hold me back, quick! I'll kill him! I swear, I'll kill him!!" [leaps]

Source: Kyrie Irving asks Nets for trade ahead of deadline

[Antonin]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

I am doing research for the 1986 draft for my NBA 2K game and I don’t think I ever realized that Brad Daugherty entered UNC as a 16 year old freshman or that he did not start playing basketball until the 10th grade.

He held his own his first two years at UNC and then blossomed his Junior year.
I had no idea he was a college teammate of Jordan and Sam Perkins.

I knew he was a teammate of Kenny Smith since Kenny has brought him up before.


He turned into a very good NBA player before back injuries began to take their toll by the 92-93 season and he would have to retire at age 30 after not playing since the 93-94 season.

He is kind of forgotten about now. I had no idea he began college at 16. That was very cool to find out about.

Brad is now a member of the Cavaliers' TV broadcast crew. He made some guest appearances over the last few years, and this season he became a regular member. He does sideline analysis stuff alongside play-by-play guy John Michael. I know he is a big NASCAR fan and at one time co-owned a NASCAR team. Maybe he still does.

This year the Cavs' TV broadcast team is kind of strange. John Michael is the play-by-play guy for every game, and for the color analysis stuff they rotate between Brad Daugherty, former Cavs star Austin Carr (for those who don't know, Timberwolves player Austin Rivers, the son of Doc Rivers, was named after Austin Carr) and former Cavs coach Mike Fratello.

As you might imagine, Brad Daugherty is still very well liked here in Cleveland. He played alongside Mark Price, Larry Nance and a bunch of other great guys.

[monkeyman576]

I guess this is where LeBron sells his soul to get Irving on his team.