Strategy Poll

Honorable_Pawn · 05-24-2016, 07:27 PM

Question

Assuming the game goes long into extra innings do you bring in tomorrow's starting pitcher in relief or would you bring in a position player and keep the rotation intact?

Situation

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My #5 starting pitcher was pulled after getting shelled for 8 runs in 1.2 innings pitched putting the team down 8-0 early. Our team rallies back in innings four through six to take a 10-8 lead that becomes 10-9 at the end of six innings.

We make it 11-9 in the top of the 7th but the home team scores again in the bottom of the 7th to make it 11-10. In the top of the 8th we add an insurance run to make it 12-10 only to give it all back in the bottom of the 8th.

We are headed into the 9th inning tied 12-12.

All I have left is my closer for the bottom of the 9th. I may be able to stretch him to around the 11th.

I am in a very tight division race with two other teams in the first week after the All-Star game. My lead in the division is shrinking fast. It feels like a must-win game. Of the two teams that I am battling against New Jersey stole a game on a walk-off and Baltimore is in the middle of come-from behind rally in the top of the 9th that is currently rain-delayed.

Additional details: I do not have a starter in AAA that I trust would give me an effective start tomorrow. I don't have any scheduled off days coming up so I would be forced to short-start my rotation causing my next 4 starters to be around 85% rested.

I'd hate to overreact to the pennant race with 60 games left but bringing in a position player feels like giving up on the game for the sake of having rested starters for the next 4 games. I'm not sure that this one game is worth setting myself up for failure for the next 4 starts.

My ace is due to make his 3rd and final rehab start in AAA after being out 14 months. He threw 50 pitches in his 1st rehab start then 75 in his 2nd. He may not be ready for return. Let's ignore game-mechanics here for a minute. The decision was made to give him 3 rehab starts. I'd like to stick to that for realism-sake. But would a real organization call him up early, if needed like this?

My final thoughts:

Even if I bring in the starter there is no guarantee that I win the game but I will set back my rotation for 4 starts. Or, I'd have to bring back a pitcher who is recovering from injury earlier than was planned.

What would you do?

Number4 · 05-24-2016, 07:34 PM

Bring in the starter, spot start a AAA guy or simply your ace instead of the next starter. Bring a fresh bullpen arm in if possible. Demote one of your rotation for that, the one that will go out if your ace returns.

Having a AAA starter on the mound in the next game is better than having a position player this one. In the worst case, you'll lose the next one too, but by pitching with a position player, you are very unlikely to win the first one and even your regular starter might lose the next one too. So you give up more percentage chance of losing the first game by having no pitcher on the mound and no bullpen to bail him out, then in the next game by having a weak pitcher, but still a pitcher, on the mound. Or the weak pitcher might be your ace.

Edit: The more I think about it, the more your ace should be pushed ahead of schedule. Just have him on a pitchcount, but throwing against ML hitters shouldn't really be more dangerous in terms of injury than throwing against AAA hitters.

r0nster · 05-24-2016, 08:46 PM

Would do what many real life managers do. Make the next start be the sacrificial lamb and make him go as long as he can. this would help save bullpen as its been exhausted in this game.

Matt Arnold · 05-24-2016, 09:01 PM

Yep, can't give up on this game. Pitch the starter in relief if needed. If you don't have a AAA starter, at least bring up a AAA long man who can give you 3-4 innings

Hammercraft · 05-24-2016, 09:06 PM

Somewhere I heard someone say "never save a guy for tomorrow, tomorrow it could rain." ...Hmm, where did I read that?

Honorable_Pawn · 05-24-2016, 09:32 PM

I do tend to think that bringing in the starter is probably the best solution in this situation.

But I see that a couple of people suggested the position player. Basically saying this is just one game. It's best to keep the rotation intact. I would like to hear what some of those folks think.

kq76 · 05-24-2016, 09:38 PM

Yeah, whenever a starter gets pulled that early, I'd go to the next starter and say, "hey, I might need you in this game later" so by the time it does go to extras he's well aware and already mentally prepared.

Unless it's a complete blowout either way, I really don't see the logic in bringing in a position player.

NoOne · 05-25-2016, 12:48 PM

it impacts the next 4 games, though, if you bring in the starter. so you can't just compare 1 game to the next, it's 1 vs 4 slightly hampered games.

i'd let that last reliever go until tired, but only bring in the starter if i take the lead.

double check fatigue, even in a 162g modern league, many times a starter can be 95-100% a day early - especially if they have high stamina. some may not even be a problem, now you're looking at 1game vs less than 4 games hampered.

with enough stamina relative to # of pitches in last start:
1day - 2day ----- 3day------4th day
10% - 38-40% - 66-70%ish - 95-100% (if you are near those on the right day, expect them to be near 100% on time)

this is just one more area that pitch counts really save your a**. you would have no problem bringing in the starter, if you make good use of pitch counts.

ihatenames · 05-25-2016, 01:47 PM

Bring in tomorrow's starter and have him go as long as he can. For tomorrow's starter start a fresh reliever who can give you 3 or 4 decent inning and give it to the bullpen from there.

Perhaps bring a AAA reliever up to help manage the inning load and send down your 5th outfielder or a tired low totem pole reliever.

ohiodevil · 05-25-2016, 02:34 PM

Bring in tomorrow's starter, especially since you are in a close race. I wouldn't want to miss the playoffs by 1 game and look back and be able to point to this game as the reason I missed out.

I usually sign 1 or 2 guys usually well into their 30s to minor league deals and keep them at Triple-A for this very situation. If I have to go with a starter in relief, I will send down the end of the bench guy or a young pitcher and bring up the veteran pitcher to make that spot start and depending on how he does, I can DFA him after the game or keep him around and let him pitch out of the bullpen a couple times before DFAing him and bring back the guy I sent down to add him to the roster (I have a "house rule" if I send someone down, I cannot recall them back up for 10 days, unless there is an injury).

SxSnts9 · 05-25-2016, 03:08 PM

I'm in disagreement with the majority of the board here. This is one game...If you lose the pennant race by one game it won't be because of THIS single game. You could say that about EVERY game you lost over the course of the season. One game in mid-July is not important enough to screw your rotation over for the next week until you get an off day.

Bring your closer in...have him go as long as he possibly can. When you need a new pitcher, bring in a position player. Hope for the best. Better to have fully rested and confident starters going than start tired guys, have them get shelled and possibly go on a cold streak.

ihatenames · 05-25-2016, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SxSnts9

I'm in disagreement with the majority of the board here. This is one game...If you lose the pennant race by one game it won't be because of THIS single game. You could say that about EVERY game you lost over the course of the season. One game in mid-July is not important enough to screw your rotation over for the next week until you get an off day.

Bring your closer in...have him go as long as he possibly can. When you need a new pitcher, bring in a position player. Hope for the best. Better to have fully rested and confident starters going than start tired guys, have them get shelled and possibly go on a cold streak.

I feel you need to play to win every game. If you concede a loss you waste your starter for that day. There is a reason teams have a 40 man roster and this is one of those reasons. I agree with another poster on the point of the AAA depth pitcher. I always sign a serviceable fringe SP to a minor league deal around spring training time to make a spot start if needed. They are almost always available.

SxSnts9 · 05-25-2016, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ihatenames

I feel you need to play to win every game. If you concede a loss you waste your starter for that day. There is a reason teams have a 40 man roster and this is one of those reasons. I agree with another poster on the point of the AAA depth pitcher. I always sign a serviceable fringe SP to a minor league deal around spring training time to make a spot start if needed. They are almost always available.

I agree you play to win every game, but he already stated that he has no one (save his ace who is rehabbing) in AAA that he could call up for help. I'm sure he agrees with you guys that for future games he should plan like this (It is a great idea and one I will probably incorporate into my game), but for right now I think his best bet is to not screw with his starting rotation. It could cost him dearly until his next off day or until he is able to nab someone who can make a spot start. Who knows...maybe he'll get the W with the position player and this will all make for a hearty chuckle.

I hope OP lets us know what he decides on and what the outcome was.

Honorable_Pawn · 05-25-2016, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohiodevil

I have a "house rule" if I send someone down, I cannot recall them back up for 10 days, unless there is an injury.

I have the same house rule.

Honorable_Pawn · 05-25-2016, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SxSnts9

I'm in disagreement with the majority of the board here. This is one game...If you lose the pennant race by one game it won't be because of THIS single game. You could say that about EVERY game you lost over the course of the season. One game in mid-July is not important enough to screw your rotation over for the next week until you get an off day.

Bring your closer in...have him go as long as he possibly can. When you need a new pitcher, bring in a position player. Hope for the best. Better to have fully rested and confident starters going than start tired guys, have them get shelled and possibly go on a cold streak.

This really makes sense to me. Sacrifice now get rewarded later. Of course there is the option not listed in the poll to bring in a scrub AAA pitcher for a spot start. But that feels like giving up tomorrow's game and 50/50 today's game. So giving up 1 1/2 games.

Number4 · 05-25-2016, 06:54 PM

And giving up todays game as well as 50/50 tomorrows game is any better? As I already said, your AAA pitcher has more chances of winning you the next game than your backup catcher on the mound today.

Honorable_Pawn · 05-25-2016, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Number4

And giving up todays game as well as 50/50 tomorrows game is any better? As I already said, your AAA pitcher has more chances of winning you the next game than your backup catcher on the mound today.

This should have been an option on the poll because it is definitely a good option.

oriolesmeep · 05-25-2016, 09:48 PM

I'd use the starter and bring up the ace, and keep him on a strict pitch count. If possible, I'd also bring up a AAA long man to piggy-back off of your ace and try to save your pen a bit. The race is tight, and everyone seems to be hot right now, you can't afford to lose this game or the next one.

ttaka808 · 05-26-2016, 01:43 AM

Depends on how meaningful the game is. If this game decides whether or not your team is going to make the playoffs of course I would bring in the starter. If you have no chance of making the playoffs I would bring in a position player. In your case, I would bring the starter in as you are in the midst of a close pennant race. But I would DEFINITELY not pitch the rest of the starters on short rest. Call up an AAA starter and maybe lose that game but it's better than risking four games. My second choice would be to use a position player as this game does not really matter all that much with still a lot of time to make up for the loss.

shipfb21 · 05-26-2016, 07:56 AM

i would bring in a position player. i dont want to overwork my closer, i may need him the next night or 2. i dont want 2 mess up my rotation by ruining a starter for maybe an inning or 2 of work when there are still 60 games left. a position player would b the way i would go, chalk up the game as a lost cause. atleast ur starting rotation will still b intact n youll b getting ur ace back in a week.

View Poll Results: What would you do?
Bring in the starter. Then deal with short-rested starters.	24	32.00%
Bring in the position player. Keep the rotation intact.	23	30.67%
Bring in the starter and call-up the ace.	28	37.33%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

05-24-2016, 07:27 PM	#1
Honorable_Pawn Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 6,407	Strategy Poll Question Assuming the game goes long into extra innings do you bring in tomorrow's starting pitcher in relief or would you bring in a position player and keep the rotation intact? Situation My #5 starting pitcher was pulled after getting shelled for 8 runs in 1.2 innings pitched putting the team down 8-0 early. Our team rallies back in innings four through six to take a 10-8 lead that becomes 10-9 at the end of six innings. We make it 11-9 in the top of the 7th but the home team scores again in the bottom of the 7th to make it 11-10. In the top of the 8th we add an insurance run to make it 12-10 only to give it all back in the bottom of the 8th. We are headed into the 9th inning tied 12-12. All I have left is my closer for the bottom of the 9th. I may be able to stretch him to around the 11th. I am in a very tight division race with two other teams in the first week after the All-Star game. My lead in the division is shrinking fast. It feels like a must-win game. Of the two teams that I am battling against New Jersey stole a game on a walk-off and Baltimore is in the middle of come-from behind rally in the top of the 9th that is currently rain-delayed. Additional details: I do not have a starter in AAA that I trust would give me an effective start tomorrow. I don't have any scheduled off days coming up so I would be forced to short-start my rotation causing my next 4 starters to be around 85% rested. I'd hate to overreact to the pennant race with 60 games left but bringing in a position player feels like giving up on the game for the sake of having rested starters for the next 4 games. I'm not sure that this one game is worth setting myself up for failure for the next 4 starts. My ace is due to make his 3rd and final rehab start in AAA after being out 14 months. He threw 50 pitches in his 1st rehab start then 75 in his 2nd. He may not be ready for return. Let's ignore game-mechanics here for a minute. The decision was made to give him 3 rehab starts. I'd like to stick to that for realism-sake. But would a real organization call him up early, if needed like this? My final thoughts: Even if I bring in the starter there is no guarantee that I win the game but I will set back my rotation for 4 starts. Or, I'd have to bring back a pitcher who is recovering from injury earlier than was planned. What would you do? __________________ PBA Quickstart for OOTP Background Images Collection All PBA games broadcast live on Steam. Last edited by Honorable_Pawn; 05-24-2016 at 07:51 PM.

05-24-2016, 07:34 PM	#2
Number4 Major Leagues Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 460	Bring in the starter, spot start a AAA guy or simply your ace instead of the next starter. Bring a fresh bullpen arm in if possible. Demote one of your rotation for that, the one that will go out if your ace returns. Having a AAA starter on the mound in the next game is better than having a position player this one. In the worst case, you'll lose the next one too, but by pitching with a position player, you are very unlikely to win the first one and even your regular starter might lose the next one too. So you give up more percentage chance of losing the first game by having no pitcher on the mound and no bullpen to bail him out, then in the next game by having a weak pitcher, but still a pitcher, on the mound. Or the weak pitcher might be your ace. Edit: The more I think about it, the more your ace should be pushed ahead of schedule. Just have him on a pitchcount, but throwing against ML hitters shouldn't really be more dangerous in terms of injury than throwing against AAA hitters. __________________ "Odor is now 2 for 5 today" (Commentator, after Rougned Odor, up to then 1 for 4, punched Jose Bautista square in the face.) Last edited by Number4; 05-24-2016 at 07:37 PM.

05-24-2016, 09:32 PM	#6
Honorable_Pawn Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 6,407	I do tend to think that bringing in the starter is probably the best solution in this situation. But I see that a couple of people suggested the position player. Basically saying this is just one game. It's best to keep the rotation intact. I would like to hear what some of those folks think. __________________ PBA Quickstart for OOTP Background Images Collection All PBA games broadcast live on Steam.

05-24-2016, 09:38 PM	#7
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 12,051	Yeah, whenever a starter gets pulled that early, I'd go to the next starter and say, "hey, I might need you in this game later" so by the time it does go to extras he's well aware and already mentally prepared. Unless it's a complete blowout either way, I really don't see the logic in bringing in a position player. __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project) For Beta/Devs: Full screen (1920x1080)

05-24-2016, 08:46 PM	#3
r0nster Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 3,082	Would do what many real life managers do. Make the next start be the sacrificial lamb and make him go as long as he can. this would help save bullpen as its been exhausted in this game.

05-24-2016, 09:01 PM	#4
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 16,265	Yep, can't give up on this game. Pitch the starter in relief if needed. If you don't have a AAA starter, at least bring up a AAA long man who can give you 3-4 innings

05-24-2016, 09:06 PM	#5
Hammercraft All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 728	Somewhere I heard someone say "never save a guy for tomorrow, tomorrow it could rain." ...Hmm, where did I read that?

05-25-2016, 12:48 PM	#8
NoOne Banned Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,273 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	it impacts the next 4 games, though, if you bring in the starter. so you can't just compare 1 game to the next, it's 1 vs 4 slightly hampered games. i'd let that last reliever go until tired, but only bring in the starter if i take the lead. double check fatigue, even in a 162g modern league, many times a starter can be 95-100% a day early - especially if they have high stamina. some may not even be a problem, now you're looking at 1game vs less than 4 games hampered. with enough stamina relative to # of pitches in last start: 1day - 2day ----- 3day------4th day 10% - 38-40% - 66-70%ish - 95-100% (if you are near those on the right day, expect them to be near 100% on time) this is just one more area that pitch counts really save your a**. you would have no problem bringing in the starter, if you make good use of pitch counts.

05-25-2016, 01:47 PM	#9
ihatenames Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Rockford Posts: 2,534	Bring in tomorrow's starter and have him go as long as he can. For tomorrow's starter start a fresh reliever who can give you 3 or 4 decent inning and give it to the bullpen from there. Perhaps bring a AAA reliever up to help manage the inning load and send down your 5th outfielder or a tired low totem pole reliever. __________________ New Album coming soon!

05-25-2016, 02:34 PM	#10
ohiodevil OOTP Roster Team Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Rocky River, Ohio Posts: 2,445	Bring in tomorrow's starter, especially since you are in a close race. I wouldn't want to miss the playoffs by 1 game and look back and be able to point to this game as the reason I missed out. I usually sign 1 or 2 guys usually well into their 30s to minor league deals and keep them at Triple-A for this very situation. If I have to go with a starter in relief, I will send down the end of the bench guy or a young pitcher and bring up the veteran pitcher to make that spot start and depending on how he does, I can DFA him after the game or keep him around and let him pitch out of the bullpen a couple times before DFAing him and bring back the guy I sent down to add him to the roster (I have a "house rule" if I send someone down, I cannot recall them back up for 10 days, unless there is an injury).

05-25-2016, 03:08 PM	#11
SxSnts9 Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2016 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 154	I'm in disagreement with the majority of the board here. This is one game...If you lose the pennant race by one game it won't be because of THIS single game. You could say that about EVERY game you lost over the course of the season. One game in mid-July is not important enough to screw your rotation over for the next week until you get an off day. Bring your closer in...have him go as long as he possibly can. When you need a new pitcher, bring in a position player. Hope for the best. Better to have fully rested and confident starters going than start tired guys, have them get shelled and possibly go on a cold streak. __________________ "They let me down real easy when they cut me. I showed up at the stadium and was told that visitors aren't allowed in the clubhouse." - Bob Uecker

05-25-2016, 06:54 PM	#16
Number4 Major Leagues Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 460	And giving up todays game as well as 50/50 tomorrows game is any better? As I already said, your AAA pitcher has more chances of winning you the next game than your backup catcher on the mound today. __________________ "Odor is now 2 for 5 today" (Commentator, after Rougned Odor, up to then 1 for 4, punched Jose Bautista square in the face.)

05-25-2016, 09:48 PM	#18
oriolesmeep Minors (Double A) Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 103	I'd use the starter and bring up the ace, and keep him on a strict pitch count. If possible, I'd also bring up a AAA long man to piggy-back off of your ace and try to save your pen a bit. The race is tight, and everyone seems to be hot right now, you can't afford to lose this game or the next one.

05-26-2016, 01:43 AM	#19
ttaka808 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 278	Depends on how meaningful the game is. If this game decides whether or not your team is going to make the playoffs of course I would bring in the starter. If you have no chance of making the playoffs I would bring in a position player. In your case, I would bring the starter in as you are in the midst of a close pennant race. But I would DEFINITELY not pitch the rest of the starters on short rest. Call up an AAA starter and maybe lose that game but it's better than risking four games. My second choice would be to use a position player as this game does not really matter all that much with still a lot of time to make up for the loss. Last edited by ttaka808; 05-26-2016 at 01:47 AM.

05-26-2016, 07:56 AM	#20
shipfb21 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 117	i would bring in a position player. i dont want to overwork my closer, i may need him the next night or 2. i dont want 2 mess up my rotation by ruining a starter for maybe an inning or 2 of work when there are still 60 games left. a position player would b the way i would go, chalk up the game as a lost cause. atleast ur starting rotation will still b intact n youll b getting ur ace back in a week.