Suspended game

[Pineywoods OOTPer]

Well, here's a good one to see a game suspended in the middle of the 8th inning due to "bad weather" and to be concluded at a later time.

Is this new or something I just have not seen before? Either way, fairly awesome simply due to it being unexpected.

[Hooray Saturday]

the very first game i played in 17 to check out the new 3D stuff was cancelled due to weather!

[Pineywoods OOTPer]

Cancellations I have seen before....but a suspended game?? That's a first I have not seen before.

[Markus Heinsohn]

That was already part of OOTP 16. But glad you like it

[Le Grande Orange]

Hey Markus, are player stats from a suspended game still credited to the date the game was completed? If so, that's completely wrong, and violates the long-standing rule which states player stats from a suspended game are credited to the date the game was started.

[Syd Thrift]

That strikes me as a massive PITA to code, and I think that the reality is, official rules or no, people treat the stats that occur from resumed games as having happened on that day. I can't think of any situation where a player was 0-2 in a game that was suspended after 4 innings, then got a hit in the resumed game and therefore got to count that suspended game in his hitting streak.

The coding, though... I'm not really getting my head around how you'd even do that. You'd have to tie every game to a primary key in the database, which I'm sure they do already, and then *also* tie it to a boxscore key as well as a bit of extra data that would be unfilled for 99.5% of all games played. Then you'd need to tie every player to both the boxscore key and the game key and then have something in there that says "even though this game resumed on May 15, please treat the stats as though they occurred on April 30". And then you'd need to stick something in the page that alerted users to the fact that Joe Blow's 3 HR game actually counted on his April stats even though they didn't actually happen in April... nope, just not seeing it.

[Matt Arnold]

Yeah, we love to follow the real rules as much as possible, but some things are just... challenging to handle.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Hey Markus, are player stats from a suspended game still credited to the date the game was completed? If so, that's completely wrong, and violates the long-standing rule which states player stats from a suspended game are credited to the date the game was started.

Nope. That would be a massive PITA to code and not really worth the time I am afraid.

[Padreman]

Please just leave Markus and the team alone stop exasperating them

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by Padreman

Please just leave Markus and the team alone stop exasperating them

Naah. It's always good to make things more realistic. However, sometimes the cost just doesn't justify the benefits, and this is a classic case of this

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Nope. That would be a massive PITA to code and not really worth the time I am afraid.

Any chance we can have more realistic rain delays, suspended games, postponements. Sure the game tells us the rain starts. It tells us the rain has stopped and play has resumed after ___ minutes. This all happens in the blink of an eye. I just don't feel effected in any way at all. Why not code it so our computers slow down to a crawl the minute it starts raining. Then if the rain gets too hard for the game to continue, you could code it so our computers shutdown or freeze up for the actual length of the rain delay. You know in real life teams sit around for hours sometimes waiting for the rain to stop. Imagine how realistic and immersive it would be if one couldn't use their computer for an hour or two waiting for the little umpires that rule OOTP to call a game. Any chance this can be added for the Steam release?

[Matt Arnold]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Any chance we can have more realistic rain delays, suspended games, postponements. Sure the game tells us the rain starts. It tells us the rain has stopped and play has resumed after ___ minutes. This all happens in the blink of an eye. I just don't feel effected in any way at all. Why not code it so our computers slow down to a crawl the minute it starts raining. Then if the rain gets too hard for the game to continue, you could code it so our computers shutdown or freeze up for the actual length of the rain delay. You know in real life teams sit around for hours sometimes waiting for the rain to stop. Imagine how realistic and immersive it would be if one couldn't use their computer for an hour or two waiting for the little umpires that rule OOTP to call a game. Any chance this can be added for the Steam release?

If we want realism, we'll also let you go to your fridge during the rain delay, but you have to paypal us 12$ per beer for that right.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

That strikes me as a massive PITA to code, and I think that the reality is, official rules or no, people treat the stats that occur from resumed games as having happened on that day. I can't think of any situation where a player was 0-2 in a game that was suspended after 4 innings, then got a hit in the resumed game and therefore got to count that suspended game in his hitting streak.

All leagues credit stats to the date the game was started, statistical oddities that might cause be damned. (I've posted an article in the past from the NY-Penn League which highlighted the strangeness that can result in the stats, and these are counted as official.)

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

The coding, though... I'm not really getting my head around how you'd even do that.

Simple answer to that: don't put in suspended games.

I was against including them for this very reason.

Additional reasons to not include them:

(1) The minors and majors use different rules for suspended games, which OOTP doesn't recreate (cue my longstanding "OOTP treats the minors as if they are just like the majors even though they're not" argument);

(2) There simply aren't that many suspended games in the majors - there have been just 35 in the past twenty-one seasons. That's less than two per season on average (OOTP seems to have far too many occurring). If suspended games are that rare in real life in the majors, then not including them isn't losing anything substantive (I don't have stats on the frequency of suspended games in the minors, though due to the more liberal rules they do occur more often; I can provide rates for the 2014-15 seasons.);

(3) The time spent coding suspended games could have been put towards making postponed and rescheduled games work better and more realistically (OOTP still cannot recreate the classic two-for-one, single admission doubleheader, despite that being a staple of baseball, both major and minor league).

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

You'd have to tie every game to a primary key in the database, which I'm sure they do already, and then *also* tie it to a boxscore key as well as a bit of extra data that would be unfilled for 99.5% of all games played. Then you'd need to tie every player to both the boxscore key and the game key and then have something in there that says "even though this game resumed on May 15, please treat the stats as though they occurred on April 30". And then you'd need to stick something in the page that alerted users to the fact that Joe Blow's 3 HR game actually counted on his April stats even though they didn't actually happen in April... nope, just not seeing it.

You're only thinking of the player stats. You haven't even thought about the league standings - because the result is credited to the date the game was started, that means the standings would have to be retroactively changed.

(Another reason why I was against including suspended games.)

ETA: I would be perfectly fine with suspended games being removed. They don't operate according to real life, nor can they be it seems, so just drop them and focus on making postponements and rescheduling better and more robust. (Like, for example, clubs finishing the regular season with differing number of games played - that's one of the main reasons to have postponements, yet OOTP always plays out the full season, even when it shouldn't. This is especially troublesome for minor leagues, which routinely don't play out the full schedule of games.)

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Padreman

Please just leave Markus and the team alone stop exasperating them

I'm the only one who sticks up for league accuracy. No one else does.

ETA: Incidentally, if I do what you say, you nor anyone else here will ever see one iota of the gigabytes of research data I have. Want to know what transactions really look like in the minor league affiliates in a major league organization? I'm building such a database. No more would you or anyone else have to guess how often an organization promotes or demotes a player, how often minor league clubs shuffle their rosters, etc. There'd be eight years' worth of actual data to examine and use for reference, allowing for all kinds of insight. Hundreds of minor league schedules? Several dozen files stuffed with real-life major and minor league financial figures? Nope. That'll all stay with me. Data on game-by-game attendance and length of games in Japan, Korea, Taiwan, as well as the minor leagues? Not for you.

In short, you are not the deity of the path of OOTP development. Your word is not law. Your concerns are not to the exclusion of everyone else's. And should that ever happen, and you are raised to such exalted status, good luck, and have fun wasting time researching data I've already put together.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Naah. It's always good to make things more realistic. However, sometimes the cost just doesn't justify the benefits, and this is a classic case of this

You never should have added suspended games in the first place, Markus. It was an unnecessary addition not justified by the frequency at which they occur in real life in the majors (see my earlier post), to say nothing of the statistical oddities they can cause.

I'd rather have seen you spent that time on postponed and rescheduled games (or any of a number of other league-level matters).

[monkeystyxx]

I'm not touching the suspended game argument with a bargepole (LGO does bring up some good points, though it feels odd to take a feature OUT of a game...). But I do have a semi-related question.

When a game suffers a rain delay, does OOTP simulate the fact that sometimes a pitcher won't continue the game, even though he would have otherwise?

I noticed there was a 44 minute rain delay in a recent game I simmed, half way through the top of the fourth. Gerrit Cole then came out and resumed pitching afterwards. Nothing wrong with that in isolation, it wasn't a terribly long delay and a very robust pitcher. But it got me wondering if it was something OOTP simulated?

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Any chance we can have more realistic rain delays, suspended games, postponements.

Suspended games should be removed (for the reasons already given). Postponed games definitely need more work (and again, the majors and minors operate quite differently in this regard, but OOTP neither recognizes nor recreates this). Can't speak to rain delays, I don't play out games, always been more of a simming user.

[BeanballComin]

Although not a Cub fan, my baseball life started out wanting rain delays. Why?
Because Jack Brickhouse was the announcer on WGN-TV, (and for the WSox too).
Once a rain delay started, you had all these current and ex-ballplayers coming to the booth so they could tell baseball stories until the rain stopped.
Sometimes this went on for hours. It was the best of times. It's how, as a child, I learned who all these great players I never heard of were.
Perhaps when a rain delay starts, an option could be there to just "go to the booth" with Jack.

[Padreman]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

I'm the only one who sticks up for league accuracy. No one else does.

ETA: Incidentally, if I do what you say, you nor anyone else here will ever see one iota of the gigabytes of research data I have. Want to know what transactions really look like in the minor league affiliates in a major league organization? I'm building such a database. No more would you or anyone else have to guess how often an organization promotes or demotes a player, how often minor league clubs shuffle their rosters, etc. There'd be eight years' worth of actual data to examine and use for reference, allowing for all kinds of insight. Hundreds of minor league schedules? Several dozen files stuffed with real-life major and minor league financial figures? Nope. That'll all stay with me. Data on game-by-game attendance and length of games in Japan, Korea, Taiwan, as well as the minor leagues? Not for you.

In short, you are not the deity of the path of OOTP development. Your word is not law. Your concerns are not to the exclusion of everyone else's. And should that ever happen, and you are raised to such exalted status, good luck, and have fun wasting time researching data I've already put together.

I was just joking with you

[Pineywoods OOTPer]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

You never should have added suspended games in the first place, Markus. It was an unnecessary addition not justified by the frequency at which they occur in real life in the majors (see my earlier post), to say nothing of the statistical oddities they can cause.

I'd rather have seen you spent that time on postponed and rescheduled games (or any of a number of other league-level matters).

I respectfully disagree. This was as Markus said, in OOTP 16 and I had never experienced it before. I find that the benefits justify the risks, and don't expect it to happen much. Anyway, I find it new and find it exciting.