rookies turning sour...im sick of it

[beorn]

Originally Posted by Voros McCracken

I just started playing so take this as far from gospel, but so far I would suggest a happy medium between what your scouts think about a player and what OSA thinks. This seems to accomplish two things:

1) Makes it more likely your scouts ratings are legit.

2) Maybe allows you to sneak a guy your scout says is great until your next pick. If OSA doesn't like him much, you've got a decent chance of his sticking around a bit.


Between that and keeping a little bit of an eye on his stats and maybe you get somewhere. Also depending on how you have your potential ratings set, you should probably steer clear of any middle relievers unless they have an expected role as a starter. Seems to me accumulating relievers through other means than the draft is easy and they tend to fall down the draft board anyway. What's nice about that is that it kind of works the same as real life.

I mention all of these things because they are all mistakes I have already made. Nothing like a little bit of trial and a whole lot of error.

In X, at least, this worked out so well as to be almost an exploit.

[PhillieFever]

Originally Posted by llmolsonll

of course most players turn out not to make it to the big league. But that doesnt explain why the AI's draftees dont go down the drain big time like mine do. With all the cash invested in scouting and coaching, i should have some result. I dont. If i sign foreign free agents, they actually live up to their ratings or even progress further. The problem is the players i draft myself...

The Yankees have more financial resources than anyone in baseball and are consistently a poor drafting team. It doesn't matter how much money you throw at the draft and scouting, it's still going to be a risky proposition. If you want can't misser's, go the free agent route.

[funkadillo]

Originally Posted by DanP

BTW I just noticed a fictional minor league PITCHER with the nickname "The Greek God of Walks"

That should be Dontrelle Willis' new nickname.

[llmolsonll]

Originally Posted by PhillieFever

The Yankees have more financial resources than anyone in baseball and are consistently a poor drafting team. It doesn't matter how much money you throw at the draft and scouting, it's still going to be a risky proposition. If you want can't misser's, go the free agent route.

who said the Yankees invested in scouting and drafting?

[PhillieFever]

Originally Posted by llmolsonll

who said the Yankees invested in scouting and drafting?

HaHa, I'm sure you're joking, but if you're not, it's pretty much well known around baseball that the Yankees have made a concerted effort of late to improve their farm system. Guys like Joba, Phil Hughes, and Austin Jackson were the results of this new direction.

[conception]

Originally Posted by PhillieFever

HaHa, I'm sure you're joking, but if you're not, it's pretty much well known around baseball that the Yankees have made a concerted effort of late to improve their farm system. Guys like Joba, Phil Hughes, and Austin Jackson were the results of this new direction.

Honestly, I think its a huge injustice to the Yankees not to recognize that even during their dominant years, they still had a fair amount of home-grown guys who were among the best in the league. Derek Jeter, Alfonso Soriano, Mariano Rivera, Robinson Cano, Nick Johnson, Bernie Williams, lets give them some credit there. The difference is that the Yankees spend astronomically more money on the rest of their roster than other teams in the league. And their also smart enough to realize that they have the resources to pay for fairly sure bets, so why not do it when most farm system guys are question marks?

There are a fair amount of teams out there known for developing young talent that simply do nothing but trade established players for young talent. I'm a Marlins fan, and while they have some of the best young talent in the league and have usually had it, an astoundingly low percentage was actually developed by them. Look at their current roster, and guys like Hanley Ramirez, Dan Uggla, Jorge Cantu, Cody Ross, Ricky Nolasco, & Cameron Maybin all came to them from other sources, most of the time a trade of an established player. Even Dontrelle Willis was gotten in a trade. All they prove is that if you trade enough established guys for prospects, every now and then some of them will pan out nicely.

I think the Yankees farm team deserves credit where its due.

[BMW]

Originally Posted by conception

Honestly, I think its a huge injustice to the Yankees not to recognize that even during their dominant years, they still had a fair amount of home-grown guys who were among the best in the league. Derek Jeter, Alfonso Soriano, Mariano Rivera, Robinson Cano, Nick Johnson, Bernie Williams, lets give them some credit there. The difference is that the Yankees spend astronomically more money on the rest of their roster than other teams in the league. And their also smart enough to realize that they have the resources to pay for fairly sure bets, so why not do it when most farm system guys are question marks?

There are a fair amount of teams out there known for developing young talent that simply do nothing but trade established players for young talent. I'm a Marlins fan, and while they have some of the best young talent in the league and have usually had it, an astoundingly low percentage was actually developed by them. Look at their current roster, and guys like Hanley Ramirez, Dan Uggla, Jorge Cantu, Cody Ross, Ricky Nolasco, & Cameron Maybin all came to them from other sources, most of the time a trade of an established player. Even Dontrelle Willis was gotten in a trade. All they prove is that if you trade enough established guys for prospects, every now and then some of them will pan out nicely.

I think the Yankees farm team deserves credit where its due.

I'm a reformed Derek Jeter hater. Still, Jeter fell to the Yankees in the 1992 draft. An Astros scout (Houston had the first overall pick) quit when the they didn't take his advice to draft Jeter with the #1 overall pick. Supposedly, the Scouting Director chose Nevin based on signability and bonus demands (Phil Nevin got 700K).

Jeter was rumored to want in excess of a million dollars in bonus, which would have been more than double the record at the time - with the sole exception of Brien Taylor, who the Yankees signed the previous draft for nearly three times the previous record. (Bo Jackson and Todd Van Poppel also signed in excess of 1 million, but those were technically major league contracts, not bonuses. It's a bit splitting hairs - money is money, whether it is a bonus or a bonus + major league contract. But in any case, asking for 1 million+ as a bonus was rare territory back in 1992.)

Jeter had a scholarship to the University of Michigan, and was considered a near-impossible sign. Except, it turns out, by the Yankees. It's possible that Jeter did everything that he could to work his way to being drafted by the Yankees; and the Yankees drafting him almost certainly wasn't because their scouts saw something that everyone else missed.

Still, I'd sign up right now if that was the most egregious level of shenanigans that occurred in baseball over the last half century - what an unparalleled reputation the sport would have.

Alfonso Soriano was a pure money signing. He was actually property of the Hiroshima Carp. He staged his retirement so he could go to the highest bidder in the US, which turned out to be the Yankees. To put it in perspective, they paid Soriano a 22 year old prospect slated for that season for AA, a salary of 3.1 million over 4 years, which was pretty much the average salary for a major league player on the Devil Rays, A's, Reds, Tigers, Marlins, Pirates and Expos that season. (Actually it was roughly worth two average Pirates and doled out 1/2 the 1998 Expos payroll to Soriano in guaranteed money).

Rivera and Bernie were absolute coups. Panama has always been a somewhat lightly scouted country over the years and the Yankees got the only two hall-of-fame level talents (Bernie may never be voted in, but he's a legit candidate) in the span of a few years.

The Yankees scout as well as anyone, but their vast resources allow them to make mistakes that would cripple smaller market teams for years or decades. Brien Taylor, Drew Henson, Hideki Irabu, Jose Contreras (Henson and Irabu are also examples of guys who would only play for the Yankees) are colossal contract gaffes that would have altered the shape of their respective franchises. The Yankees simply had a safety net that helped them shrug off these mistakes.

[conception]

Originally Posted by BMW

I'm a reformed Derek Jeter hater. Still, Jeter fell to the Yankees in the 1992 draft. An Astros scout (Houston had the first overall pick) quit when the they didn't take his advice to draft Jeter with the #1 overall pick. Supposedly, the Scouting Director chose Nevin based on signability and bonus demands (Phil Nevin got 700K).

Jeter was rumored to want in excess of a million dollars in bonus, which would have been more than double the record at the time - with the sole exception of Brien Taylor, who the Yankees signed the previous draft for nearly three times the previous record. (Bo Jackson and Todd Van Poppel also signed in excess of 1 million, but those were technically major league contracts, not bonuses. It's a bit splitting hairs - money is money, whether it is a bonus or a bonus + major league contract. But in any case, asking for 1 million+ as a bonus was rare territory back in 1992.)

Jeter had a scholarship to the University of Michigan, and was considered a near-impossible sign. Except, it turns out, by the Yankees. It's possible that Jeter did everything that he could to work his way to being drafted by the Yankees; and the Yankees drafting him almost certainly wasn't because their scouts saw something that everyone else missed.

Still, I'd sign up right now if that was the most egregious level of shenanigans that occurred in baseball over the last half century - what an unparalleled reputation the sport would have.

Alfonso Soriano was a pure money signing. He was actually property of the Hiroshima Carp. He staged his retirement so he could go to the highest bidder in the US, which turned out to be the Yankees. To put it in perspective, they paid Soriano a 22 year old prospect slated for that season for AA, a salary of 3.1 million over 4 years, which was pretty much the average salary for a major league player on the Devil Rays, A's, Reds, Tigers, Marlins, Pirates and Expos that season. (Actually it was roughly worth two average Pirates and doled out 1/2 the 1998 Expos payroll to Soriano in guaranteed money).

Rivera and Bernie were absolute coups. Panama has always been a somewhat lightly scouted country over the years and the Yankees got the only two hall-of-fame level talents (Bernie may never be voted in, but he's a legit candidate) in the span of a few years.

The Yankees scout as well as anyone, but their vast resources allow them to make mistakes that would cripple smaller market teams for years or decades. Brien Taylor, Drew Henson, Hideki Irabu, Jose Contreras (Henson and Irabu are also examples of guys who would only play for the Yankees) are colossal contract gaffes that would have altered the shape of their respective franchises. The Yankees simply had a safety net that helped them shrug off these mistakes.

Your telling me some things that I've actually never heard about before, that's interesting. Those examples all pretty well illustrate that the Yanks were spending as much, if not more, than other teams in player development.

I can definitely agree that the Yanks have afforded mistakes that other teams couldn't. Still, to me the most ridiculous spending ever occurred to me when Boston spent $50 million just to buy the right to talk to Daisuke. From that moment on, I never could root for Boston against the Yankees because they became even worse than the team and idea they had always been portrayed as standing against.

[BMW]

Originally Posted by conception

Your telling me some things that I've actually never heard about before, that's interesting. Those examples all pretty well illustrate that the Yanks were spending as much, if not more, than other teams in player development.

I can definitely agree that the Yanks have afforded mistakes that other teams couldn't. Still, to me the most ridiculous spending ever occurred to me when Boston spent $50 million just to buy the right to talk to Daisuke. From that moment on, I never could root for Boston against the Yankees because they became even worse than the team and idea they had always been portrayed as standing against.

You're partially misinterpreting the nature of that $50 million figure. It is obscenely high, but it's different from one team offering Roy Halladay $20 million a season, and another team coming in and paying $50 million. In this case, teams are negotiating in an ongoing process.

The process of getting the Posting Rights to a Japanese player is a blind bid. It's like eBay, only you have absolutely no idea what anyone else bid until they announce the results. You get no second chances.

The Red Sox had an idea that teams were going to be offering into the $30 - $50 million dollar range, but they had no idea what any of the actual bids would be.

They did outbid everyone comfortably, but they had no idea just how much they would need to be the winner. It turns out that the Yankees bid in the low $30 millions and the Mets may have gone over the $40 million mark. So they were correct in gauging the market - it was double to triple what Ichiro's winning posting bid.

As I said before money is money, but do note the process that caused this amount is remarkably different than signing a Cuban defector, a prospect from the Dominican Republic, an amateur draftee or other free agent.