At a Crossroads with my Jays

ryan008 · 07-16-2009, 03:41 PM

Hi All,

I don't know if anyone if familiar with my Jays Dynasty I write here on the boards (Link to it is here: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...blue-jays.html)

I just completed the 2014 season and the team won 114 games. Unfortunately we were defeated in the first round of the playoffs for the 3rd consecutive season. Since winning the World Series in 2011 the Jays have been the best team in baseball posting seasons of 108, 115 and 114 wins and leading the Majors in wins each year.

I just don't know what direction to go with the franchise. We have a good core of starting pitching with SP Neftali Feliz, SP Brett Cecil and SP James Ryan (Ryan is a fictional player drafted in 2009) and a good veteran in 37 yearold SP Roy Halladay.

Offensively the Jays are lead by 3B Mike Moustakas, LF Travis Snider, C J.P. Arencibia and 31 yearold 2 time American League MVP Adam Lind.

My question is this:

I have put together a very good team in my oppinion and our record in the regular season reflects that I think but that honestly means nothing if you can't win in the playoffs and we certainly can't seem to do that. So all that being said what would you do?

I have 4 scenarios in my mind:

1. Complete Rebuild: Trade all of my older talent (Arencibia, Moustakas, Snider, Lind, Feliz and Cecil *Note Halladay is not going to be moved he will retire a Jay and hopefully get in the the Hall of Fame. He has 225 career victories at the conclusion of 2014) to attempt to bring back younger MLB ready talent and prospects that can help me win in the next 3-5 years.

2. Partial rebuild: Trade some of the older players who have had injury problems (Snider, Arencibia and Lind all have missed at least 2-3 months each over the past 3 years) and attempt to bring in some established talent to replace them and hopefuly can help get the team over the hump in the playoffs. I would likely have to draw on my prospect depth at Starting Pitcher to get this done and I am not sure I want to go that route either.

3. Replace the Coaching Staff: I don't know if it is the Manager's inability to properly manage that is costing me games or the fact that my trainer is absolutely awful and that would explain why all of my guys seem to get hurt during the course of a season. This plan would involve hireing an entirely new staff in the hopes that a new management style would shake things up.

4. Do Nothing: In this scenario I head into the 2015 season without making any major changes and give it one more try. Most of my players still have a year left before they are no longer arbitration eligiable and I should be able to stay under my $112,000,000 buget (My current payroll is roughly $95 million)

I would love to hear what people think, and if you have your own solutions I would love to hear them

Thanks for the look

Ryan

metzrule3 · 07-16-2009, 03:57 PM

I definitely wouldn't go with the total fire sale. Guys like Lind and Arencibia are in the middle of great careers with the Jays, I wouldn't just ship them off. Honestly, I think it's just been bad luck so far.

damientheomen3 · 07-16-2009, 05:02 PM

was james ryan a created player named after you?

anyway, I picked do nothing, just because you have a great core. Sometimes you run into some bad luck in the postseason, but I think your team is solid enough to keep together to keep contending.

kq76 · 07-16-2009, 05:38 PM

I think you should look closely at why you're losing in the playoffs, but not the regular season.

Are certain guys perenially getting injured for the playoffs? If so, trade them and do your best to strengthen your weaknesses in return. Try to get a better trainer regardless.

How's your depth? Not having a decent few backups for most positions can kill you if the wrong guy goes down for the playoffs. I like to have at least 1 guy who could very well be starting and lots of guys who can play multiple positions because you just know at least someone will be out at any time.

Top notch pitching is critical in the playoffs. If you don't have as good a top 3 rotation as you could and 2 great relievers, do whatever you have to shore that up. Then try to stretch that to 4 and 3 high quality guys because, again, there will be injuries.

If your coaching sucked you probably wouldn't win so much in the regular season, so I wouldn't worry about them too much. You probably just need to take as much bad luck out of the equation as possible (i.e. increase depth and consistency).

Childress · 07-16-2009, 06:17 PM

Do you have a power team or a small ball team? Bill James pointed out, years ago, that the former do better than the latter , given similiar W/L records, in the playoffs. I forget his precise reasoning, but it was fascinating.

jar2574 · 07-16-2009, 07:21 PM

You have a good team. Do nothing. Sometimes bad luck prevents great teams from winning in the playoffs as often as they should.

jbergey22 · 07-16-2009, 07:30 PM

Id certainly keep it the same. Its just horrible luck to win that many games and not win the World Series.

jasonn29tn14 · 07-17-2009, 09:48 AM

#1, plus fire the trainer.

ryan008 · 07-17-2009, 11:45 AM

Thanks for the input guys. I think I am leaning towards a mix #2 and #3. I found a really good trainer who is much better than George Poulis was and have offered him a contract. I am also going to take kq76's advice and try and work on my depth. Alot of my backups have terriable lines at the big league level and I am going to bring in some guys that could be starters on other teams.

I thought of another aspect and that is my team defence. I am going to try and improve it a little to see if that helps as well.

Thanks to everyones suggestions I appreciate the help!

If you think of any other ideas I am all ears!

ajgodson · 07-17-2009, 05:37 PM

I've had this problem several times in OOTP's past versions and am likewise just coming upon it in the new version -- 110+ wins, but playoff losses. Here's what I've found.

1) Focus on having 3 dominant pitchers - playoff rotations are small. Have a good #4 in case of injury, but my top 3 starters are usually all top 10 in the league (Currently I have Feliz, Strasburg, Porcello)

2)Have at least 2 pinch hit specialists, 2 defensive specialists on the bench.

3)Have a strong bullpen - so many games are close / late in the playoffs that you're dead without a good pen. Again, focus on having 3 dominant guys instead of a bunch of pretty good ones. Having lots of "good" players can get you wins over a long season, but a few "great" players gets you wins in the postseason.

4)Luck - you've got to realize that even though you win 70% of your regular season games, there's still a good chance that you're just not going to get it done in the playoffs every year -- that's what makes this game fun.

Oh, and don't have a firesale...that's just silly.

View Poll Results: What to Do with the Jays Moving Forward
Complete Rebuild	1	3.70%
Partial Rebuild	7	25.93%
Replace Coaching Staff	5	18.52%
Do Nothing	14	51.85%
Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll

07-16-2009, 03:41 PM	#1
ryan008 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: St. Catharines, Ontario Posts: 2,355	At a Crossroads with my Jays Hi All, I don't know if anyone if familiar with my Jays Dynasty I write here on the boards (Link to it is here: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...blue-jays.html) I just completed the 2014 season and the team won 114 games. Unfortunately we were defeated in the first round of the playoffs for the 3rd consecutive season. Since winning the World Series in 2011 the Jays have been the best team in baseball posting seasons of 108, 115 and 114 wins and leading the Majors in wins each year. I just don't know what direction to go with the franchise. We have a good core of starting pitching with SP Neftali Feliz, SP Brett Cecil and SP James Ryan (Ryan is a fictional player drafted in 2009) and a good veteran in 37 yearold SP Roy Halladay. Offensively the Jays are lead by 3B Mike Moustakas, LF Travis Snider, C J.P. Arencibia and 31 yearold 2 time American League MVP Adam Lind. My question is this: I have put together a very good team in my oppinion and our record in the regular season reflects that I think but that honestly means nothing if you can't win in the playoffs and we certainly can't seem to do that. So all that being said what would you do? I have 4 scenarios in my mind: 1. Complete Rebuild: Trade all of my older talent (Arencibia, Moustakas, Snider, Lind, Feliz and Cecil *Note Halladay is not going to be moved he will retire a Jay and hopefully get in the the Hall of Fame. He has 225 career victories at the conclusion of 2014) to attempt to bring back younger MLB ready talent and prospects that can help me win in the next 3-5 years. 2. Partial rebuild: Trade some of the older players who have had injury problems (Snider, Arencibia and Lind all have missed at least 2-3 months each over the past 3 years) and attempt to bring in some established talent to replace them and hopefuly can help get the team over the hump in the playoffs. I would likely have to draw on my prospect depth at Starting Pitcher to get this done and I am not sure I want to go that route either. 3. Replace the Coaching Staff: I don't know if it is the Manager's inability to properly manage that is costing me games or the fact that my trainer is absolutely awful and that would explain why all of my guys seem to get hurt during the course of a season. This plan would involve hireing an entirely new staff in the hopes that a new management style would shake things up. 4. Do Nothing: In this scenario I head into the 2015 season without making any major changes and give it one more try. Most of my players still have a year left before they are no longer arbitration eligiable and I should be able to stay under my $112,000,000 buget (My current payroll is roughly $95 million) I would love to hear what people think, and if you have your own solutions I would love to hear them Thanks for the look Ryan

07-16-2009, 03:57 PM	#2
metzrule3 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 22	I definitely wouldn't go with the total fire sale. Guys like Lind and Arencibia are in the middle of great careers with the Jays, I wouldn't just ship them off. Honestly, I think it's just been bad luck so far.

07-16-2009, 05:38 PM	#4
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 11,800	I think you should look closely at why you're losing in the playoffs, but not the regular season. Are certain guys perenially getting injured for the playoffs? If so, trade them and do your best to strengthen your weaknesses in return. Try to get a better trainer regardless. How's your depth? Not having a decent few backups for most positions can kill you if the wrong guy goes down for the playoffs. I like to have at least 1 guy who could very well be starting and lots of guys who can play multiple positions because you just know at least someone will be out at any time. Top notch pitching is critical in the playoffs. If you don't have as good a top 3 rotation as you could and 2 great relievers, do whatever you have to shore that up. Then try to stretch that to 4 and 3 high quality guys because, again, there will be injuries. If your coaching sucked you probably wouldn't win so much in the regular season, so I wouldn't worry about them too much. You probably just need to take as much bad luck out of the equation as possible (i.e. increase depth and consistency). __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project)

07-16-2009, 06:17 PM	#5
Childress Minors (Double A) Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 180	Do you have a power team or a small ball team? Bill James pointed out, years ago, that the former do better than the latter , given similiar W/L records, in the playoffs. I forget his precise reasoning, but it was fascinating.

07-16-2009, 07:21 PM	#6
jar2574 Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 405	You have a good team. Do nothing. Sometimes bad luck prevents great teams from winning in the playoffs as often as they should.

07-16-2009, 07:30 PM	#7
jbergey22 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,481	Id certainly keep it the same. Its just horrible luck to win that many games and not win the World Series.

07-17-2009, 09:48 AM	#8
jasonn29tn14 Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 320	#1, plus fire the trainer.

07-17-2009, 11:45 AM	#9
ryan008 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: St. Catharines, Ontario Posts: 2,355	Thanks for the input guys. I think I am leaning towards a mix #2 and #3. I found a really good trainer who is much better than George Poulis was and have offered him a contract. I am also going to take kq76's advice and try and work on my depth. Alot of my backups have terriable lines at the big league level and I am going to bring in some guys that could be starters on other teams. I thought of another aspect and that is my team defence. I am going to try and improve it a little to see if that helps as well. Thanks to everyones suggestions I appreciate the help! If you think of any other ideas I am all ears!

07-17-2009, 05:37 PM	#10
ajgodson Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 24	I've had this problem several times in OOTP's past versions and am likewise just coming upon it in the new version -- 110+ wins, but playoff losses. Here's what I've found. 1) Focus on having 3 dominant pitchers - playoff rotations are small. Have a good #4 in case of injury, but my top 3 starters are usually all top 10 in the league (Currently I have Feliz, Strasburg, Porcello) 2)Have at least 2 pinch hit specialists, 2 defensive specialists on the bench. 3)Have a strong bullpen - so many games are close / late in the playoffs that you're dead without a good pen. Again, focus on having 3 dominant guys instead of a bunch of pretty good ones. Having lots of "good" players can get you wins over a long season, but a few "great" players gets you wins in the postseason. 4)Luck - you've got to realize that even though you win 70% of your regular season games, there's still a good chance that you're just not going to get it done in the playoffs every year -- that's what makes this game fun. Oh, and don't have a firesale...that's just silly.