MLB 2023 Season

[billyray1984]

Originally Posted by pilight

The A's reported 3407 in attendance Tuesday. Most AAA teams draw better.

To be fair, most AAA teams have better players.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by pilight

The A's reported 3407 in attendance Tuesday. Most AAA teams draw better.

If I was in the Bay Area, I certainly wouldn't be into the A's. Its expensive enough w/o investing your heart along w/your money into a team looking to go to Vegas.

[dsvitak]

Originally Posted by pilight

The A's reported 3407 in attendance Tuesday. Most AAA teams draw better.

I attended several A's games in the late '60's, where the attendance was in the low hundreds.

I recall one game, where they announced that you could move to any seat you wanted..so there was a small group behind each dugout.

I was probably 12 or so..and I walked way down the right field line, and waited. Not one fan within 200 feet, in any direction.

Curt Blefary of the Yankees hit a foul ball, and it landed about five feet from where I was sitting. One of four that I have gotten, at an MLB park.

A's stadium is a sterile mausoleum...and it hasn't gotten better in the 55 years since that game.

Edit...had to be July 16th, 1970. Only Yankees double header that year in Oakland. My father always took us to double headers, for the Giants, and the A's.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by billyray1984

To be fair, most AAA teams have better players.

It does not help that about 8-10 MLB teams a season enter that season with no intention of competing and do not hide it at all.

[Westheim]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

It does not help that about 8-10 MLB teams a season enter that season with no intention of competing and do not hide it at all.

Yeah but isn't the same true for f.e. NBA franchises?

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by Westheim

Yeah but isn't the same true for f.e. NBA franchises?

It is not as bad as it used to be.
Two things helped a lot

First was smoothing the draft lottery odds so that the worst 3 teams have an equal chance of the #1 overall pick. Now you don't really need to 'lean into' the tank.

Second was adding in the play in bracket. Now teams that have injuries or seasons from hell can try and get the 9th or 10th seed and then play their play their way into the playoffs.

Their 'reward' is getting to play the #1 seed in their conference. But it does keep teams in the playoff race for longer.

This season, I would say only 4 franchises came into the season not even trying for the playoffs.
Detroit
Charlotte
San Antonio
Houston

That is 4 out of 30, not that bad


In baseball, it seems like a lot more
Fans of these teams can refute me if they wish, but it seems like

Washington
Miami
Pittsburgh
Cincinnati
Arizona
Colorado
Boston
Detroit
Kansas City
Texas
Oakland

Those franchises went into this season with no intention on competing

That is 37% of the league
Not great Bob!

[pilight]

NBA teams also play in much smaller venues and have cheaper ticket prices than MLB

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by pilight

NBA teams also play in much smaller venues and have cheaper ticket prices than MLB

This is not true
Stadiums are smaller. But tickets are more expensive.

MLB has the cheapest tickets of the four big sports.

It goes from cheapest to most expensive

MLB
NBA
NHL
NFL

NHL tickets are surprisingly expensive. But the NHL has the highest average income of it's fans vs any other major North American sport.

[dsvitak]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

...
In baseball, it seems like a lot more
Fans of these teams can refute me if they wish, but it seems like

Washington
Miami
Pittsburgh
Cincinnati
Arizona
Colorado
Boston
Detroit
Kansas City
Texas
Oakland

Those franchises went into this season with no intention on competing

That is 37% of the league
Not great Bob!

How can you possibly think that the Cubs are competitive? Swansby has led the league in one category in his life, outs made, with 486 last year.

Their cleanup hitter is Bellinger, who has hit .192 over his last 900+ plate appearances.

Their highest OBP last year was Contreras, at .347, and they made no attempt to resign him.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by dsvitak

How can you possibly think that the Cubs are competitive? Swansby has led the league in one category in his life, outs made, with 486 last year.

Their cleanup hitter is Bellinger, who has hit .192 over his last 900+ plate appearances.

Their highest OBP last year was Contreras, at .347, and they made no attempt to resign him.

I do not follow every team, I was going off based on what I read in pre-season previews and the fact that the Chicago did spend money over the offseason and has a higher payroll than last year by about 26%.

I am not saying they are going to be competitive, just what the front office expectations seemed like to an outside observer.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

It is not as bad as it used to be.
Two things helped a lot

First was smoothing the draft lottery odds so that the worst 3 teams have an equal chance of the #1 overall pick. Now you don't really need to 'lean into' the tank.

Second was adding in the play in bracket. Now teams that have injuries or seasons from hell can try and get the 9th or 10th seed and then play their play their way into the playoffs.

Their 'reward' is getting to play the #1 seed in their conference. But it does keep teams in the playoff race for longer.

This season, I would say only 4 franchises came into the season not even trying for the playoffs.
Detroit
Charlotte
San Antonio
Houston

That is 4 out of 30, not that bad


In baseball, it seems like a lot more
Fans of these teams can refute me if they wish, but it seems like

Washington
Miami
Pittsburgh
Cincinnati
Arizona
Colorado
Boston
Detroit
Kansas City
Texas
Oakland

Those franchises went into this season with no intention on competing

That is 37% of the league
Not great Bob!

I think fans, and I'm speaking mostly for myself, don't mind tanking as long as there does seem to be a plan. If you are in a perpetual rebuild, then apathy sets in. So fans in Washington & Colorado can accept a couple lean years & still head to the park. But if you live in Oakland, Miami or Pittsburgh, you know your ownership isn't seeking to get better or isn't capable of making the team better. Those franchises have shown fans they don't care about giving them a quality product.

[dsvitak]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

I do not follow every team, I was going off based on what I read in pre-season previews and the fact that the Chicago did spend money over the offseason and has a higher payroll than last year by about 26%.

I am not saying they are going to be competitive, just what the front office expectations seemed like to an outside observer.

Fair enough. They spent money, but spent it very poorly. Dansby Swanson is not as good as their catcher that they lost, Willson Contreras.

They also spent a ton of money on Cody Bellinger, who may, or may not be DFA'd by the end of the year.

[Westheim]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

In baseball, it seems like a lot more
Fans of these teams can refute me if they wish, but it seems like

Washington
Miami
Pittsburgh
Cincinnati
Arizona
Colorado
Boston
Detroit
Kansas City
Texas
Oakland

Those franchises went into this season with no intention on competing

That is 37% of the league
Not great Bob!

The Ragners went out and signed deGrom, which is hardly a non-"at least gonna try" move. Red Sox and Fish I'd at least give an asterisk. Hard to argue with the others.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by Westheim

The Ragners went out and signed deGrom, which is hardly a non-"at least gonna try" move. Red Sox and Fish I'd at least give an asterisk. Hard to argue with the others.

You make a good point about Texas. This is what I get for not following every team. They add $78 million in payroll.

I was more going off season previews that had them third in the AL West.
Does not mean they are not trying to get higher.

[CONN CHRIS]

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

My son and I are going to see the Hartford Yard Goats v Bowie Baysox tonight. AA game. May have roughly twice the paid attendance of yesterday's A's game.

Well, they didn't double up the A's. 5,625 in attendance for AA baseball in Hartford last night (they averaged over 5,800 in 2022 but there was rain last night so it wasn't quite at capacity).

The A's should move to Hartford!

[Déjà Bru]

Under the heading of "What will they think of next?" is the two-man outfield. (Also called the Joey Gallo defense).



In this shot, it was the centerfielder who had moved to the circled position.

As you see, it's in compliance with the ban on infield shifts but accomplishes pretty much the same effect. It's for batters who are utterly incapable of taking advantage of the fact that nobody is playing left field.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Under the heading of "What will they think of next?" is the two-man outfield. (Also called the Joey Gallo defense).

Attachment 941211

In this shot, it was the centerfielder who had moved to the circled position.

As you see, it's in compliance with the ban on infield shifts but accomplishes pretty much the same effect. It's for batters who are utterly incapable of taking advantage of the fact that nobody is playing left field.

Good. If a team can't throw in football, we don't tell the D they can't crowd the LOS. In basketball, we don't say defenders can't back off a shooter if they can't hit a 3. IDK why the D can't shift their position if hitter can't learn to go the other way. It's called scouting and strategy.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Under the heading of "What will they think of next?" is the two-man outfield. (Also called the Joey Gallo defense).

Attachment 941211

In this shot, it was the centerfielder who had moved to the circled position.

As you see, it's in compliance with the ban on infield shifts but accomplishes pretty much the same effect. It's for batters who are utterly incapable of taking advantage of the fact that nobody is playing left field.

Yeah, I would choose to care about this if the data didn’t indicate that only a small handful of players are truly adversely affected by this, and in the case of Gallo in particular that K rate of 35% (up to close to 40% last year and, through 18 PAs, this year) kills him a whole lot more than his .250 BABIP (which did slip to .219 last year but it’s not like teams suddenly started shifting on him last year).

Leaguewide BABIP is, as I keep saying, only low compared to the early 2010s. Before 1993, a BABIP in the .290s was a phenomenon not seen since the hitting-crazy early 30s.

[thehef]

Originally Posted by dsvitak

They also spent a ton of money on Cody Bellinger, who may, or may not be DFA'd by the end of the year.

As a Dodger fan and a Cody fan, it was hard to watch him struggle the last few seasons, especially when the primary problem - his stance - got more ridiculous last season. When Cody was an MVP, his stance was semi-normal; seems that as his struggles continued, his stance got even more unorthodox and rigidly vertical, to everyone's dismay. I've never been and never will get paid to be anyone's hitting coach, but the answer seemed obvious last year: "See Freddy Freeman? Copy his stance."

Both guys are similarly tall. Freddy's stance is pretty normal and he's clearly had success with it. Neither of those things can be said about Cody's stance... And the Dodgers - albeit more on the pitching side - have had great success at resuscitating careers, so it's a bit puzzling they weren't able to fix Cody. Then again, perhaps the reason they let him go was that he was not receptive to common sense suggestions; I dunno.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by dsvitak

They also spent a ton of money on Cody Bellinger, who may, or may not be DFA'd by the end of the year.

I looked this deal up and it was not really a ton of money as you said.
25 million over two seasons with a 5 million buyout clause for next season.

So not a bad roll of the dice.