The marvelous world of the Montréal Expos' expenses

Long_Long_Name · 05-02-2004, 08:36 PM

According to Primer, the Expos signed P Livan Hernandez to a 3-year contract extension worth $21 million.

This has to be a joke. Just when I thought the Expos couldn't be managed in a worse way, this happens? You don't have money for Vladimir, for Javier, for Bartolo, but you do for Livan? Hey, Expos, do you know that Cabrera and Vidro will be free agents next season?

I know that if this thread gets a significant amount of replies, someone will have convinced me that this is a good investment, but right now I'm pretty pissed. I know the Cubs fans have a tremendous amount of sympathy around the baseball world, but at least their team is treated with a bit of dignity by its head office, and it won't move any time soon.

BigBambino · 05-02-2004, 08:37 PM

April 1st has come and gone..Doesn't Montreal know this?

CommishJoe · 05-02-2004, 08:45 PM

oh my

holyroller · 05-02-2004, 08:46 PM

WHAT.THE.****!?!?

holyroller · 05-02-2004, 08:49 PM

not an accidental double post

WHAT.THE.****!?!?

matskralc · 05-02-2004, 08:50 PM

WHAT.THE.****!?!?

BigBambino · 05-02-2004, 09:08 PM

WHAT.THE.****!?!? is right

NYM Fan 31 · 05-02-2004, 09:33 PM

WHAT.THE.****!?!? are we talking about?

doubles · 05-02-2004, 10:04 PM

I guess this goes in the "we have extra money, lets use it" category.... see:Lee Stevens

But, from what I've heard this deal clears up 2 million THIS season from his base salary...

Edit: Man... it sucks to be an Expos fan right now... but hey, we got a win today!!

kq76 · 05-02-2004, 10:51 PM

You'd think MLB would manage them as well as possible to sell them for as much as possible, but most of the moves they've done with them seem to be the opposite. I wish they would sell them already so the people involved can stop being yoyo'd around.

Jordan · 05-02-2004, 10:53 PM

what a joke. what a ###### joke.

kq7g hit the nail on the head

cknox0723 · 05-02-2004, 11:34 PM

Since no one else wants to defend the signing, I will.

Now, Livan Hernandez may not be anyone's definition of a great pitcher, but he's an innings horse (over 200 innings the last 4 years), and last year posted a 155 ERA+ (that is, an ERA 55% better than the league after adjusting for parks and such). This <i>may</i> be a fluky, otherworldly year, but like Esteban Loaiza, Hernandez supposedly made a mechanical change that triggered the success.

If he keeps up that level of performance, he's a bargain. Maybe it would have been *better* to spend the extra $5 million/year on Vlad, but he's an injury risk. Vazquez was not going to stay in town...nor was Colon, and chalk his non-signing up to the Vlad factor as well.

I don't like Minaya, I don't like how the Expos have been jerked around - but I like Livan.

Craig

CMH · 05-02-2004, 11:42 PM

MLB is only trying to make the Expos less attractive to potential buyers.

I'm sorry LLN.

Swan · 05-03-2004, 12:14 AM

When was the contract extension given? They should have waited as long as possible to give him any kind of extension to see if last year was a fluke or not.

Long_Long_Name · 05-03-2004, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Swan
When was the contract extension given? They should have waited as long as possible to give him any kind of extension to see if last year was a fluke or not.

I think it's fairly recent.

My main concern is not about Vazquez, Guerrero or Colon. It's more about the Expos' middle infield becoming free agents after this season.

kq76 · 05-03-2004, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cknox0723
Since no one else wants to defend the signing, I will.

Now, Livan Hernandez may not be anyone's definition of a great pitcher, but he's an innings horse (over 200 innings the last 4 years), and last year posted a 155 ERA+ (that is, an ERA 55% better than the league after adjusting for parks and such). This <i>may</i> be a fluky, otherworldly year, but like Esteban Loaiza, Hernandez supposedly made a mechanical change that triggered the success.

If he keeps up that level of performance, he's a bargain. Maybe it would have been *better* to spend the extra $5 million/year on Vlad, but he's an injury risk. Vazquez was not going to stay in town...nor was Colon, and chalk his non-signing up to the Vlad factor as well.

I don't like Minaya, I don't like how the Expos have been jerked around - but I like Livan.

Craig

Interesting, but when compared to letting Vlad walk, I don't think it was a good move. How much value does Livan really add to the organization? Sure, he might get some wins and be a pretty decent pitcher, but as for real value, entertainment value to the fans and therefore value to potential buyers, Livan is nothing compared to Vlad. If that money could have kept Vlad (I don't know if it could have, but maybe), then that would have been a much better investment imo. Maybe with Vlad being gone this was just the best they could do right now and if that is the case, then that's sad. LLN's got it right though. That infield is pretty valuable and maybe the only reason why people watch Expos games now. If signing Livan means they cannot or are much less likely to sign them then this sounds like a very stupid deal. If they can somehow sign them all, then I'd say it's actually probably good. But if they can, then why did they let the others go? Or would they not have stayed for any amount.

Skipaway · 05-03-2004, 05:45 AM

While it's debatable if Livan Hernandez really worth that much money, it's still wrong for a team like the Expos to sign deals like this. It's fairly obvious he is just the kind of player small market teams should trade to big market teams for younger and cheaper talents.

Ok, so the Expos got a nice excuse in Bud Selig for every stupid move, what about the Pirates!

And1pg2 · 05-03-2004, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Ok, so the Expos got a nice excuse in Bud Selig for every stupid move, what about the Pirates!

What about the Pirates they have been trading older guys for cheaper younger guys for years now. I feel that it might have finally worked as they are finally over .500 at 12-11. Although we are on year 8 of Bonifay's 5 year plan it doesn't matter he's fired so o well on that idea. But littlefield's and Mac's plan seems to be working and this team has 3 or 4 of the top 50 prospects according to MLB.com.

Long_Long_Name · 05-03-2004, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipaway
Ok, so the Expos got a nice excuse in Bud Selig for every stupid move, what about the Pirates!

The Pirates don't play 104 away games, and won't move any time soon.

BigBambino · 05-03-2004, 03:55 PM

This is indeed a strange move..but to Livan's credit, he has been very good since being in montreal

05-02-2004, 08:36 PM	#1
Long_Long_Name Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Montréal Posts: 7,065	The marvelous world of the Montréal Expos' expenses According to Primer, the Expos signed P Livan Hernandez to a 3-year contract extension worth $21 million. This has to be a joke. Just when I thought the Expos couldn't be managed in a worse way, this happens? You don't have money for Vladimir, for Javier, for Bartolo, but you do for Livan? Hey, Expos, do you know that Cabrera and Vidro will be free agents next season? I know that if this thread gets a significant amount of replies, someone will have convinced me that this is a good investment, but right now I'm pretty pissed. I know the Cubs fans have a tremendous amount of sympathy around the baseball world, but at least their team is treated with a bit of dignity by its head office, and it won't move any time soon. __________________ Beta Baseball. Join it! Last edited by Long_Long_Name; 05-02-2004 at 08:44 PM.

05-02-2004, 08:45 PM	#3
CommishJoe Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 5,238	oh my __________________ Joe Success isn’t owned. It’s leased. And rent is due every day.

05-02-2004, 08:46 PM	#4
holyroller Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: OTBL Forums Posts: 3,532	WHAT.THE.****!?!? __________________ Back to work, but not drawing a paycheck. TonyJ et. al.'s alias “I confused it with the chicken’s neck,” Mocanu, who was admitted to the emergency hospital in Galati, was quoted as saying. “I cut it ... and the dog rushed and ate it.”

05-02-2004, 08:49 PM	#5
holyroller Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: OTBL Forums Posts: 3,532	not an accidental double post WHAT.THE.****!?!? __________________ Back to work, but not drawing a paycheck. TonyJ et. al.'s alias “I confused it with the chicken’s neck,” Mocanu, who was admitted to the emergency hospital in Galati, was quoted as saying. “I cut it ... and the dog rushed and ate it.”

05-02-2004, 08:50 PM	#6
matskralc Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,076	WHAT.THE.****!?!? __________________ Well, they have a saying here in Texas ... but they probably don't have it in California, so never mind. OTBL - Pennsylvania Fightin' Amish ABC - Pittsburgh Puma OCHO - Pittsburgh Pirates EBU - Commissioner

05-02-2004, 08:37 PM	#2
BigBambino All Star Starter Join Date: May 2003 Location: Auburn, ME Posts: 1,315	April 1st has come and gone..Doesn't Montreal know this?

05-02-2004, 09:08 PM	#7
BigBambino All Star Starter Join Date: May 2003 Location: Auburn, ME Posts: 1,315	WHAT.THE.****!?!? is right

05-02-2004, 09:33 PM	#8
NYM Fan 31 Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Freeport, NY Posts: 347	WHAT.THE.****!?!? are we talking about? __________________ "Pelfrey has yet to allow a hit with one out in the 5th. The 1-2 pitch.. lined into left field, that's a base hit for Jones." - Gary Cohen

05-02-2004, 10:04 PM	#9
doubles Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 480	I guess this goes in the "we have extra money, lets use it" category.... see:Lee Stevens But, from what I've heard this deal clears up 2 million THIS season from his base salary... Edit: Man... it sucks to be an Expos fan right now... but hey, we got a win today!!

05-02-2004, 10:51 PM	#10
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 11,772	You'd think MLB would manage them as well as possible to sell them for as much as possible, but most of the moves they've done with them seem to be the opposite. I wish they would sell them already so the people involved can stop being yoyo'd around. __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project)

05-02-2004, 10:53 PM	#11
Jordan All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Chi Suburbs now... Posts: 1,991	what a joke. what a ###### joke. kq7g hit the nail on the head

05-02-2004, 11:42 PM	#13
CMH Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,057	MLB is only trying to make the Expos less attractive to potential buyers. I'm sorry LLN.

05-03-2004, 12:14 AM	#14
Swan Major Leagues Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 315	When was the contract extension given? They should have waited as long as possible to give him any kind of extension to see if last year was a fluke or not.

05-03-2004, 05:45 AM	#17
Skipaway Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Where you live Posts: 11,017	While it's debatable if Livan Hernandez really worth that much money, it's still wrong for a team like the Expos to sign deals like this. It's fairly obvious he is just the kind of player small market teams should trade to big market teams for younger and cheaper talents. Ok, so the Expos got a nice excuse in Bud Selig for every stupid move, what about the Pirates! __________________ Jonathan Haidt: Moral reasoning is really just a servant masquerading as a high priest.

05-03-2004, 03:55 PM	#20
BigBambino All Star Starter Join Date: May 2003 Location: Auburn, ME Posts: 1,315	This is indeed a strange move..but to Livan's credit, he has been very good since being in montreal