3rd Time Through the Lineup?

Larryk007 · 08-09-2024, 09:04 PM

There are many great OOTP videos, and I have pretty much watched them all (and over again!). In one, talking about pitcher strategy, it was mentioned that you could set pitching limits on the number of batters faced, which is true. But then it was noted that you might want to set the strategy so the pitcher would not see the batter for the third time. I think this was Tampa Bay's strategy with Blake Snell.
So, is there any evidence that the AI has something that modifies the batter's ability to hit a pitcher they have seen three times?

Reed · 08-10-2024, 08:40 AM

This has been discussed in the past. There are a lot of things the developers want to keep under wraps and let you figure out on your own. I think one of the developers hinted that there was some adjustment third time through the lineup.

Pelican · 08-11-2024, 02:38 PM

Relying on considerable experience (but subjective; not stats), I think this depends in part on a pitcher's stamina, and also on the era. Guys in historical deadball sims will have no trouble going through the order a third or fourth time. Modern guys will.

But I think it also depends on how effectively a SP has been the first couple of times through the order. If your SP has thrown fifty pitches in five innings and allowed no runs, he will likely be fine that third time through the order (unless he has a very low Stamina rating).

In other words, batters faced is just one metric. There's a huge difference between pitching effectively twice through the order, and throwing a hundred pitches and allowing a bunch of runs in only a few innings pitched. The latter guy is pound to get pounded by the guys who have already hit him hard. The former guy will likely keep pitching effectively the third time through.

Jasper70 · 08-11-2024, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larryk007

There are many great OOTP videos, and I have pretty much watched them all (and over again!). In one, talking about pitcher strategy, it was mentioned that you could set pitching limits on the number of batters faced, which is true. But then it was noted that you might want to set the strategy so the pitcher would not see the batter for the third time. I think this was Tampa Bay's strategy with Blake Snell.
So, is there any evidence that the AI has something that modifies the batter's ability to hit a pitcher they have seen three times?

I play out all my games so my experience is based more on observation rather than stats, I always have someone up in the pen in the 5th/6th innings just for this reason in this situation. I've watched more games go south than is possible that third time through

Syd Thrift · 08-11-2024, 10:16 PM

3rd (and 4th) times through the order is a thing but the more quality pitches a guy throws, the less it is of one. If you have a guy with I think 4 solid pitches there’s not much of an effect.

Larryk007 · 08-11-2024, 11:32 PM

So, there might be something in the AI in the batter's profile that sees the same pitch or pitches from the same pitcher and can hit them better? That would be cool if the developers built that in. I see nothing that would show a batter with like a 60 (20-80 scale) that can hit a certain pitch any different than another player with the same 60. If they can hit the same pitch from the same pitcher again and again that would be something deeper to think about.....

OutS|der · 08-11-2024, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larryk007

So, there might be something in the AI in the batter's profile that sees the same pitch or pitches from the same pitcher and can hit them better? That would be cool if the developers built that in. I see nothing that would show a batter with like a 60 (20-80 scale) that can hit a certain pitch any different than another player with the same 60. If they can hit the same pitch from the same pitcher again and again that would be something deeper to think about.....

The game likely isn't this complicated. Pitchers likely just take a hit to their stuff when facing a batter a 3+ times in a game

NoOne · 08-13-2024, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larryk007

There are many great OOTP videos, and I have pretty much watched them all (and over again!). In one, talking about pitcher strategy, it was mentioned that you could set pitching limits on the number of batters faced, which is true. But then it was noted that you might want to set the strategy so the pitcher would not see the batter for the third time. I think this was Tampa Bay's strategy with Blake Snell.
So, is there any evidence that the AI has something that modifies the batter's ability to hit a pitcher they have seen three times?

yes they have something modeled similar to real life statistics on this.

anything with large samples and real solid data, which this definitely qualifies as, you can expect it is part of the odds at play over time.

This strategy is definitely employed by the Rays and at least a few others to varying degrees. You really can't do it with a full rotation unless you have a deep bullpen and the playoffs where you get a ton of off-time. Just not going to work out well during 20-25game stretches.

it might still be value-added but a ton of that value is mitigated by a handful of games you are relying on a mil call up or forced to leave a few guys out there too long and all sorts of other compromises when your pen is tired.

context matters.. vs a weak offensive team maybe you roll those dice trying to eke out an extra IP. that's 1/2 to 2/3rds of the league.

08-09-2024, 09:04 PM	#1
Larryk007 All Star Reserve Join Date: Oct 2022 Posts: 524	3rd Time Through the Lineup? There are many great OOTP videos, and I have pretty much watched them all (and over again!). In one, talking about pitcher strategy, it was mentioned that you could set pitching limits on the number of batters faced, which is true. But then it was noted that you might want to set the strategy so the pitcher would not see the batter for the third time. I think this was Tampa Bay's strategy with Blake Snell. So, is there any evidence that the AI has something that modifies the batter's ability to hit a pitcher they have seen three times?

08-10-2024, 08:40 AM	#2
Reed Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 2,374	This has been discussed in the past. There are a lot of things the developers want to keep under wraps and let you figure out on your own. I think one of the developers hinted that there was some adjustment third time through the lineup. __________________ I am not responsible for anything I post!!! Use at your own risk!

08-11-2024, 02:38 PM	#3
Pelican Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: Wilmington, Delaware Posts: 3,057	Relying on considerable experience (but subjective; not stats), I think this depends in part on a pitcher's stamina, and also on the era. Guys in historical deadball sims will have no trouble going through the order a third or fourth time. Modern guys will. But I think it also depends on how effectively a SP has been the first couple of times through the order. If your SP has thrown fifty pitches in five innings and allowed no runs, he will likely be fine that third time through the order (unless he has a very low Stamina rating). In other words, batters faced is just one metric. There's a huge difference between pitching effectively twice through the order, and throwing a hundred pitches and allowing a bunch of runs in only a few innings pitched. The latter guy is pound to get pounded by the guys who have already hit him hard. The former guy will likely keep pitching effectively the third time through. __________________ Pelican OOTP 2020-? ”Hard to believe, Harry.”

08-11-2024, 11:32 PM	#6
Larryk007 All Star Reserve Join Date: Oct 2022 Posts: 524	So, there might be something in the AI in the batter's profile that sees the same pitch or pitches from the same pitcher and can hit them better? That would be cool if the developers built that in. I see nothing that would show a batter with like a 60 (20-80 scale) that can hit a certain pitch any different than another player with the same 60. If they can hit the same pitch from the same pitcher again and again that would be something deeper to think about.....