Bunting

kq76 · 11-01-2023, 04:16 PM

MLB network had a good video on bunting yesterday. My takeaway was: men on 1st and 2nd, no out? Bunting might be good. Otherwise? Bunting is probably a bad idea. Before watching the video I thought bunting was almost always a bad idea (unless the batter had a really good chance of getting on with a bunt), so it was good to see there's still a time for it even if it's a sacrifice bunt.

Bluenoser · 11-01-2023, 05:05 PM

Good video and I am not a fan of bunting at all. Even before the DH came along I cringed when they would ask the pitcher to bunt. "Let him swing" I would yell at the TV.

Of course I can't help but recall Whitey Herzog's Cardinals of the 80's and how he liked to manufacture runs. He liked speed and wasn't afraid to bunt. They went to 3 WS in the 80's, so I guess there was something to it.

I think to have any success with it, you need to have vg speed, like Whitey did, with Coleman, McGee, and Van Slyke. Of course he had power too in Jack Clark, but he liked to manufacture runs and I always enjoyed watching him do it.

Edit - should add, I use 1985 for my league settings in OOTP, really like the stats from that era, but I turn bunting down to very rarely.

CONN CHRIS · 11-02-2023, 05:44 AM

Watching Hanshin - Orix in the Japan Series with my son right now (game 5). Fifth inning down 1-0, no outs and runner on first. Bunt. Gotta love Nippon baseball

Cod · 11-02-2023, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

Gotta love Nippon baseball

Day in and day out, still my favorite league to watch. The way teams blend old school and new school baseball within those atmospheres is unbelievable.

I still think bunting has a place in the game, it's finding that place that's tough. For example, during last night's WS game, I don't think bunting with your best hitter in the top of the first is a good use of an out.

Bluenoser · 11-03-2023, 05:27 PM

Interesting article at FanGraphs that talks about 26 different bunt attempts during the 2023 post season.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/every-bu...season-ranked/

They only talk about bunts that resulted in action, and not failed attempts. At least according to Baseball Savant.

The biggest take away for me was how many different situations that a bunt was attempted in. But then baseball is a "situational" game right?

I do like the reasoning and breakdown on each one. A nice job of dissecting them.

kq76 · 11-03-2023, 06:53 PM

Thanks for linking to that article! I was surprised by how many there actually were and that he was okay with most of them, even the ones where only 1 runner was on. I was hoping for more stats, but it was interesting to read his takes nonetheless.

My big takeaway from it was: if it's bad hitter, then that should greatly factor into the decision (and maybe the effectiveness of the pitcher should too). "No, duh", but I think we might forget that sometimes. For example, the first Altuve one was flat out stupid. But a lot of them weren't stupid largely because the batters aren't nearly as good as Altuve. Like the Varsho one (men on 1st and 2nd, 1 out), which I was a bit surprised was so low, even I was okay with it. I mean, I don't love bunting, but Varsho is pretty good at it and with his speed he has a decent chance to get hit. If OTOH you tell him to bat normally, then he's either going to likely strikeout, GIDP, or maybe hit a home run. He's not Bichette.

I like the point he made about bunting against a pitcher's momentum. So if it's a RHP, bunt to 3B, if it's a LHP, bunt to 1B. Are bunts usually directed to one side or the other depending on the pitcher's handedness though? I had it in my head that most bunts are to 3B and I figured that was more because it's easier to pull a bunt and with most batters righties more bunts are going to be pulled to 3B. And maybe because it forces a throw across the diamond which might go awry. Maybe it's not so much that the side you bunt towards should depend on the pitcher's handedness, but that it just helps if it's against the pitcher's momentum.

11-01-2023, 04:16 PM	#1
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 11,704	Bunting MLB network had a good video on bunting yesterday. My takeaway was: men on 1st and 2nd, no out? Bunting might be good. Otherwise? Bunting is probably a bad idea. Before watching the video I thought bunting was almost always a bad idea (unless the batter had a really good chance of getting on with a bunt), so it was good to see there's still a time for it even if it's a sacrifice bunt. __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project)

11-01-2023, 05:05 PM	#2
Bluenoser Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In The Moment Posts: 14,150	Good video and I am not a fan of bunting at all. Even before the DH came along I cringed when they would ask the pitcher to bunt. "Let him swing" I would yell at the TV. Of course I can't help but recall Whitey Herzog's Cardinals of the 80's and how he liked to manufacture runs. He liked speed and wasn't afraid to bunt. They went to 3 WS in the 80's, so I guess there was something to it. I think to have any success with it, you need to have vg speed, like Whitey did, with Coleman, McGee, and Van Slyke. Of course he had power too in Jack Clark, but he liked to manufacture runs and I always enjoyed watching him do it. Edit - should add, I use 1985 for my league settings in OOTP, really like the stats from that era, but I turn bunting down to very rarely. Last edited by Bluenoser; 11-01-2023 at 05:07 PM.

11-02-2023, 05:44 AM	#3
CONN CHRIS Global Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 28,865	Watching Hanshin - Orix in the Japan Series with my son right now (game 5). Fifth inning down 1-0, no outs and runner on first. Bunt. Gotta love Nippon baseball __________________ Check Out My Cards! Last edited by CONN CHRIS; 11-02-2023 at 05:45 AM.

11-03-2023, 05:27 PM	#5
Bluenoser Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In The Moment Posts: 14,150	Interesting article at FanGraphs that talks about 26 different bunt attempts during the 2023 post season. https://blogs.fangraphs.com/every-bu...season-ranked/ They only talk about bunts that resulted in action, and not failed attempts. At least according to Baseball Savant. The biggest take away for me was how many different situations that a bunt was attempted in. But then baseball is a "situational" game right? I do like the reasoning and breakdown on each one. A nice job of dissecting them. Last edited by Bluenoser; 11-03-2023 at 05:31 PM.

11-03-2023, 06:53 PM	#6
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 11,704	Thanks for linking to that article! I was surprised by how many there actually were and that he was okay with most of them, even the ones where only 1 runner was on. I was hoping for more stats, but it was interesting to read his takes nonetheless. My big takeaway from it was: if it's bad hitter, then that should greatly factor into the decision (and maybe the effectiveness of the pitcher should too). "No, duh", but I think we might forget that sometimes. For example, the first Altuve one was flat out stupid. But a lot of them weren't stupid largely because the batters aren't nearly as good as Altuve. Like the Varsho one (men on 1st and 2nd, 1 out), which I was a bit surprised was so low, even I was okay with it. I mean, I don't love bunting, but Varsho is pretty good at it and with his speed he has a decent chance to get hit. If OTOH you tell him to bat normally, then he's either going to likely strikeout, GIDP, or maybe hit a home run. He's not Bichette. I like the point he made about bunting against a pitcher's momentum. So if it's a RHP, bunt to 3B, if it's a LHP, bunt to 1B. Are bunts usually directed to one side or the other depending on the pitcher's handedness though? I had it in my head that most bunts are to 3B and I figured that was more because it's easier to pull a bunt and with most batters righties more bunts are going to be pulled to 3B. And maybe because it forces a throw across the diamond which might go awry. Maybe it's not so much that the side you bunt towards should depend on the pitcher's handedness, but that it just helps if it's against the pitcher's momentum. __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project)