How Do You Set Up MLB Pitching?

[ALB123]

Whenever we create a new league we are asked what the normal rotation size is. Then, we are also asked to enter a value for the number of relief pitchers and non-pitchers that will make-up a 25-man roster - a basic guideline for the AI managed teams to follow. There are two sets for us to configure - the number for leagues with DH and without DH.

I'm assuming if you're playing in the MLB from 1990 to today you'll be using a 5 man starting rotation. How many RP do you tell the AI to use? Finally, assuming a 5-man rotation, how many RPs do you prefer to carry on a 25-man roster and do you use a different number based on using DH or not?

Thanks!

[Hacksaw86]

I tend to go with 7 relievers on a team, whether it's a DH league or not. If I have a few starters that have low stamina or get in a pinch where most of my bullpen is tired I will bump it up to 8 from time to time.

[RubeBaker]

With the 26-man rosters, I like to have 13 batters and 13 pitchers. It's a good balance IMHO. I like to have three left-handed relief pitchers in the bullpen with one of them in long relief. I also like to have a right-handed relief pitcher in long relief. For my rotation, I use a 5-man starting rotation when I simulate seasons except in Perfect Team where I'll use a 4-man starting rotation.

[fredbeene]

I was suprised with this setting.
50s default is 5 man more rotation with 3 relievers.....
i changed to 26 man roster and made 5 SP and 5 Relievers.

[BBGiovanni]

Originally Posted by RubeBaker

With the 26-man rosters, I like to have 13 batters and 13 pitchers. It's a good balance IMHO. I like to have three left-handed relief pitchers in the bullpen with one of them in long relief. I also like to have a right-handed relief pitcher in long relief. For my rotation, I use a 5-man starting rotation when I simulate seasons except in Perfect Team where I'll use a 4-man starting rotation.

As much as I hate 8-man bullpens in real life, I love them in OOTP because relievers don't seem to be able to pitch as regularly. So mine usually looks like:

1 closer (the best guy I can get, within reason)
1 assistant closer/setup (someone else's closer, usually a salary dump on an expiring contract)
1 assistant setup (ideally the future closer, with option years available)
2 RHP middle relievers
2 LHP middle relievers (depending on how many other lefties there are in the other slots)

1-2 long relievers (at least one with option years available)

So many teams in the current MLB setup are lefty-heavy, next time out I'll probably carry a lefty long reliever/swing man instead of 2 LHP middle relievers.

[itsmb8]

Originally Posted by BBGiovanni

As much as I hate 8-man bullpens in real life, I love them in OOTP because relievers don't seem to be able to pitch as regularly. So mine usually looks like:

1 closer (the best guy I can get, within reason)
1 assistant closer/setup (someone else's closer, usually a salary dump on an expiring contract)
1 assistant setup (ideally the future closer, with option years available)
2 RHP middle relievers
2 LHP middle relievers (depending on how many other lefties there are in the other slots)

1-2 long relievers (at least one with option years available)

So many teams in the current MLB setup are lefty-heavy, next time out I'll probably carry a lefty long reliever/swing man instead of 2 LHP middle relievers.

Ive also seen a couple instances of triple digit runs in a game because the AI doesnt have any relievers left. Is it possible the reliever stamina is a bit too low?

[ALB123]

What a difference that 26th man makes. I'm 10 years into my saved game, starting 1991 soon, probably today, in fact. So, I've only built 25-man Regular Season rosters in my career. I normally carry 7 RPs in addition to my 5 SPs for a total of 12 Pitchers on my Active Roster. However, I have occasionally gone with only 6 RPs here and there in the Regular Season. That's probably possible only because I focus so much energy and $$ into my starting 5. The longer they last, the less I'll need from my relievers, obviously.

One thing that I've been terrible about is building a pitching staff focusing energy into having Righty & Lefty pitchers. Currently, I have three Left Handed pitchers on my Active Roster. One LHP in my starting rotation, one LHP Middle Reliever and one LHP Setup man. My bullpen has two Setup pitchers.

EDIT: I forgot to say that when I go with only 6 RPs during the Reg. Season, my bullpen will only have one Setup man.

Do any of you change your approach with your pitching staff in the Playoffs?

[BBGiovanni]

Originally Posted by ALB123

One thing that I've been terrible about is building a pitching staff focusing energy into having Righty & Lefty pitchers. Currently, I have three Left Handed pitchers on my Active Roster. One LHP in my starting rotation, one LHP Middle Reliever and one LHP Setup man. My bullpen has two Setup pitchers.

EDIT: I forgot to say that when I go with only 6 RPs during the Reg. Season, my bullpen will only have one Setup man.

Do any of you change your approach with your pitching staff in the Playoffs?

Well, with lefties you kind of have to decide what how they'll use them if you have the 3-man rule. I still find plenty of times where I'll use a LOOGY to get the 3rd out of an inning, or when the AI stacks 2 big lefty bats together. Then of course he'll walk the first one and give up a homer to the second

LOOGYs are usually cheeeeeeeeap and easy to find, just be careful that they are actually good against lefties. If you can find a lefty who is as good against righties, that's obviously better and hurts less when he has to face a righty between two lefties or whatever.

As to the playoffs... I often don't change anything about my pitching staff. Usually I just take the 5th guy (or 4th, if the 5th guy matches up well against the opponent) and stick him in the bullpen to use in mopup. If I have a really good hitting guy in AAA or a fast utility guy I might squeeze him onto the roster especially if my bench is thin or filled with Robinson Canos

Originally Posted by itsmb8

Ive also seen a couple instances of triple digit runs in a game because the AI doesnt have any relievers left. Is it possible the reliever stamina is a bit too low?

There was a thread about that not long ago, sorry I don't remember which one, but you are not the only one that thinks so. I just turn up pitcher stamina overall by one notch for every game, although this year that seems to lead to ace starters pitching reeeeeeeeally deep into games especially in international play.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by ALB123

Whenever we create a new league we are asked what the normal rotation size is. Then, we are also asked to enter a value for the number of relief pitchers and non-pitchers that will make-up a 25-man roster - a basic guideline for the AI managed teams to follow. There are two sets for us to configure - the number for leagues with DH and without DH.

I'm assuming if you're playing in the MLB from 1990 to today you'll be using a 5 man starting rotation. How many RP do you tell the AI to use? Finally, assuming a 5-man rotation, how many RPs do you prefer to carry on a 25-man roster and do you use a different number based on using DH or not?

Thanks!

In 1990 the norm was 5-6 relievers. If you’re going to do this manually instead of allowing the game to automatically expand this, you’d want to eventually push it out to 7 or 8.

[CBeisbol]

Depends, greatly, on what I'm doing with the sim

I do a lot of experimenting

I've posted previously about how I use piggy back starters. Two starters that each face 18 batters (twice through the lineup). This typically gets me about 4 innings out of each. Unfortunately, OOTP isn't really set up for this due to how it fatigues the pitchers. The starter still has a lot left in the tank, while the second starter frequently burns out in the fourth inning of work. This is because the game doesn't recognize how the pitchers are going to be used. This is a good set up becaue it saves the pen. Frequently the two starters complete the game and no other reliever is needed. If I do need relievers it's frequently only for less than 2 innings. I like this set up for a number of situations
1) breaking in a young starter
2) as a 5th starter
3) when I have injury prone starters


I also usually have my best reliever as a stopper than I can use for multiple innings beginning as early as the sixth (if I'm managing). Then use a lesser pitcher (usually a veteran who's used to racking up saves (currently a 1992 Lee Smith) as a closer.

I almost always keep my middle relievers optionable. My stopper and my closer probably aren't going anywhere, but everybody else is going to be up and down. This gives me a competitive advantage over the AI, so again, I do it more for experiments than for competitive games. I often use the 25th spot for both hitters and pitchers. If I've got, say, a slugging first baseman who's going to play almost every day and who I don't want to keep a backup for, I'll use the 25th spot to call up a hitter to play first for a day then send right back down.

I also use off days to call up extra pinch runners or defensive replacements when I know I've got a well rested bullpen and can spare a roster spot.


None of that really answers your question, I know
I find the AI sometimes needs extra pitchers (because it doesn't manage the bullpen well), so, I sometime set up the AI to carry one more pitcher than I would carry

[ALB123]

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

None of that really answers your question, I know
I find the AI sometimes needs extra pitchers (because it doesn't manage the bullpen well), so, I sometimes set up the AI to carry one more pitcher than I would carry

Are you kidding? Your post was great... as were all of the others. You opened my eyes to things I never considered trying. Am I right in assuming that I'd have to enable the option that would allow me to use Starting Pitchers as Relievers if I wanted to try your piggy-back method? You are so spot on about the way OOTP fatigues Pitchers. It absolutely drives me crazy some times. The way you piggy-back SPs, is that almost the same things as using Opener & Follower, except you're using 2 SPs while the Opener & Follower method begins the game with an RP and the SP comes into the game later? If that's even how it works...I've never tried it.

May I ask you a question? I believe I'm one baseball season behind you in your current saved game based on your comment about 1992 Lee Smith (my 1991 Spring Training just began). Would you say that OOTP does a good job of replicating baseball's ever-changing philosophy in regards to pitching strategy/pitcher usage? I swear my Starting Pitchers in the early 80s were throwing 7+ innings 8 out of 10 games. Complete games occurred every day of the season. AI teams, as well as my Yankees squad, which I simmed, would often throw Complete Games even in losses. That's exactly how I remember early and mid-80s baseball. As I begin 1991, the last couple of seasons It was subtle, but I've noticed Pitch Counts going down and pitchers being pulled earlier, on average, than they did only a couple of seasons back. What do you think about that, CBeisbol? Or anyone who'd like to discuss it from their point of view. Is this OOTP subtly adjusting pitcher usage as real life did during this time period?

I added foreign leagues to my OOTP World a few seasons ago. I screwed up many things. I really screwed up when creating the *** because their teams were stacked with 4 & 5 star players in relation to the MLB...like 1/3 or more of the team I kind of fixed it, but not entirely. I don't allow *** trading with MLB. Only Free Agency signings, teams Posting players & MLB teams purchasing a player for a LOT of money - I didn't want the league to get flooded with *** talent.

Anyway, I was shocked by the number of relievers and closers, in particular, who throw only 2 pitches. They'll have 70-80 Stuff and either awesome movement or awesome control. The third trait would be not so good, maybe so-so. Both of their pitches will be 60 minimum...usually one will be 70 to 80+. A big percentage of those pitchers don't even throw a Fastball, which I thought was weird. Many do, but it's normal to see these pitchers throw a Sinker or Cutter along with a nasty curveball. Fastball & Curveball are very common too. As is Cutter & Change-Up.

Is this, IRL, common with Japanese pitchers? I don't know if foreign leagues in OOTP adjust by era the way MLB teams & players do, so I don't know if these are supposed to be modern traits or was this how Japanese pitchers played in the 80s? If given the chance would you take one of these 4-Star two pitch pitchers? Or would you be more likely to prefer a 3.0 or 3.5-Star pitcher who has 4 pitches? Three really good and one so-so in quality rating? Imagine the other traits, age, stuff, movement, blah blah blah are the same as Mr. 2-Pitch.

FUN FACT:
In 1983, MLB pitchers combined for 745 Complete Games (CG)
In 2018, MLB pitchers combined for 42 Complete Games (CG)
In 2019, MLB pitchers combined for 45 Complete Games (CG)

FUNNER FACT:
In 1879, the Cincinnati Reds played 80 games. Their go-to pitcher, Will White, started 75 games, pitching 680.0 innings. He finished the season with 75 Complete Games (CG). For his career, Will White started 402 baseball games as Pitcher and tallied 394 Complete Games (CG)

[CBeisbol]

ALB
I'm not the person to answer your question about how the league evolves. I'm more forward thinking than backward looking. Some others certainly know more about that than I do

What I know is that it should. Somewhere in the league settings are settings for pitcher stamina, relief pitcher usage, etc. And you have the option to select the settings from any league in history and to advance year-by-year. Someone else will have to speak to their accuracy. My guess is that it's pretty good.

I usually set up my starting rotation with 6 or 7 starters (depending if I'm piggy backing 1 or 2 spots). 1 or 2 are listed as relievers. Then I play out the piggy back games because there's no setting to use them like I want. But, yes, it's similar to opener/follower. I also usually have them opposite handed to maximize platoon advantages. Then I start one. They get their 18 hitters. If that falls in the middle of an inning, I bring in a reliever to finish that inning. Then the second one comes in to get the next 18. And a reliever finishes it off if needed.

Then, the other four, or sometimes three, rotation spots are "normal".

[ALB123]

Thanks for bringing up setting a batter limit rather than a pitch limit. I keep forgetting to try it out. Spring Training 1991 is starting. Sounds like a perfect time to run my own tests.