Not a fan (or I guess I'm that guy)

[Dargone]

Longtime OOTP player here, since version 1, and I even remember the "old boards." Not around these boards too much anymore; however, if you check the most recent posts of mine, then you can see that I stop by every time a new version comes out to give mad kudos to Markus and Co.

Unfortunately, this mode scares and irritates me. EA makes a fortune off of their "card" modes and the greed this type of mode represents sickens me. The game industry has suffered from micro-trnsactions and cash-grab schemes for years now. One has to simply look at the state of Madden and Fifa to see the effect this mode has had on those franchises. As soon as I read about this mode I knew that points would be purchaseable with real money. The developers insist that the relegation/promotion setup will take care of creating a level playing field to prevent the whales from dominating. I sincerely hope that this is the case.

This mode, to me, represents everything that's wrong with modern gaming and I want nothing to do with it. I'm in the camp that thinks this type of mode, and loot boxes in general, is digital gambling and preys on people with addictive personality types. There is a reason when card packs are opened that you are treated to slot-machine type effects.There are others who feel this way as well and I believe Belgium has outlawed this type of mode in games classifying it as gambling? I believe EA is fighting this? (I remember watching some Youtube video about this; however, I could easily be mistaken).

Even more of a concern to me than the pay to win aspect is the future of the rest of the game. I am very concerned that much like Madden, Fifa, and MLB: The Show, the focus of this game will now be completely Perfect Team mode. This mode has the potential to generate a ton of revenue and become the primary focus of OOTP Developments, which is exactly what has occuredd with the aforementioned sports games. I sincerely hope this is not the case and that the rest of the game continues to receive the love and attention it has for nearly twenty years.

Having said that, I'll be pre-ordering OOTP 20 as soon as possible because Markus and Co. have earned my business by producing a fantastic game year after year. If this continues, then I'll buy the next twenty versions as well. Hopefully my fears will be proven wrong and the rest of the game will continue to evolve every year.

After a cursory look at the forums it definitely appears I'm in the minority and the mode has a lot of fans. That is obviously perfectly fine and if this mode is your thing, then I wish you many hours of happy gaming. I will never be convinced that the ability to purchase points/card packs is good for gaming. However, I do realize that there are many that have no problem with this and who am I to tell anyone how to spend their money. To be fair, I once plunked a lot (well over four figures) of money on Diamond Dynasty mode. This was years ago and I realized that it became very addictive and I have since come to abhor micro-transactions in gaming in general.

Finally, I almost didn't bother to post; however, hopefully my posting history proves that I'm not simply a troll trying to create a toxic thread. OOTP developments has always appreciated constructive criticism and respectful debate. I've tried to be both diplomatic and respectful here. I simply wanted to state an opinion that one longtime customer has concerns with this mode and in particular the future of this franchise. There may be others who feel this same way. It can be scary to post an unpopular opinion as we all know.

Thanks for reading and any constructive and respectful comments are much appreciated. For those enjoying this mode, I hope you keep having fun and this will tide you over until spring training. I'll see everyone when OOTP 20 launches.

[NYY #23]

I never thought I'd be a fan of this mode, or have as much of a good time playing it. I've found that it's pretty easy to improve your team without spending money, especially if you get lucky with a couple achievements. And with pro-rel I imagine the big spenders will rise to the top.

I also have no point of comparison for those other games, so I'm sure there are valid points. But as long as it remains fun for me I'll keep playing it. I've been around a long time too, and if anybody has earned my trust it's Markus and Co. I'm not at all worried about it effecting OOTP 20 or beyond negatively.

[ike121212]

Originally Posted by Dargone

Finally, I almost didn't bother to post; however, hopefully my posting history proves that I'm not simply a troll trying to create a toxic thread. OOTP developments has always appreciated constructive criticism and respectful debate. I've tried to be both diplomatic and respectful here. I simply wanted to state an opinion that one longtime customer has concerns with this mode and in particular the future of this franchise. There may be others who feel this same way. It can be scary to post an unpopular opinion as we all know.

While it may feel like you're in the minority, most people who share your view don't take the time to post. It won't be a popular opinion here.

I agree with most of your concerns. That said, with an initial week of no point store, beta's been enjoyable for me.

[mitchkenn]

i wasn't going to try this at all but as part of the beta team, i felt an obligation to test it. i'll never spend a dime on cards. Can't being retired and with medicals and all. i am not doing well with my team, but since the auction house opened, i find myself looking if i can find a silver carded pitcher for the 320 points i have .... or a center fielder ... or ... i am certain it won't ever be the main focus of my OOTP gaming, but it is interesting and once i get put in a league of others with reasonably same poor team, maybe it'll be competitive again. We'll see how it goes. So far, it's better than i expected for me and i'll tinker with this team through beta and then make a choice if it's something i want to keep in the background or jettison.

[stl jason]

good post... and probably some concerns regarding the future path of the game held by more people than you might think...

my 2 cents, I really can't see them moving away from the core focus of the game after 20 versions... this type of sim is what has drawn us all here in the first place. If I wanted a more arcade type experience, there are plenty of choices on the market for that....

as for the pay to win aspect of the PT mode.... if it ends up becoming that, so be it... it's only one mode of play among many (and nothing says the guy who spends a ton of $$ to get 25 'perfect-100' cards for his team will always come out on top). My team of free scrubs might not compete against that, but then again, I don't expect the Beloit Snappers to compete against the Yankees/Red Sox/etc in real life... but if being the best of the best of the best (with honors) is that important so someone can see their name at the top of a leaderboard, then they're probably already the type who spends money to get there. (and again, that doesn't always make it a sure thing).


I'd say try it out while it's in beta and see what you think... you might like it and try to stick it to the high rollers with your freebee team and get a little extra satisfaction from it.... or you might still shrug and never come back to that mode, but at least you'll have given it a shot

[Markus Heinsohn]

If you do not like PT, simply ignore it. Simply play OOTP the way you used to.

[Fyrestorm3]

Valid concerns about the current state of the industry, and I share a lot of them. But if you've been playing since OOTP1, I would hope you have a little more faith in Markus & Co. to not take us down that path.

When 3D graphics were first implemented a couple of years ago, the rallying cry for those against it was that focusing on graphics would take the dev team's attention away from the game engine, and the game would suffer, all for some "pointless" animations. That didn't happen then, and I don't expect it to happen now. Markus cares too much about this game to let it go by the wayside for a quick buck.

On the state of the industry as a whole, you're spot-on. But OOTP as a company is and always has been an outlier, and that's why I keep coming back to it, and will support them in whatever they choose to do.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

Valid concerns about the current state of the industry, and I share a lot of them. But if you've been playing since OOTP1, I would hope you have a little more faith in Markus & Co. to not take us down that path.

When 3D graphics were first implemented a couple of years ago, the rallying cry for those against it was that focusing on graphics would take the dev team's attention away from the game engine, and the game would suffer, all for some "pointless" animations. That didn't happen then, and I don't expect it to happen now. Markus cares too much about this game to let it go by the wayside for a quick buck.

On the state of the industry as a whole, you're spot-on. But OOTP as a company is and always has been an outlier, and that's why I keep coming back to it, and will support them in whatever they choose to do.

Thank you. I think we have a pretty good track record of listening to our customers. And we have no intenton of changing this

[Dargone]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Thank you. I think we have a pretty good track record of listening to our customers. And we have no intenton of changing this

You have a great track record which is why I pre-order every version and while I'll be doing the same with version twenty. I appreciate the response and will continue to support the game if this is indeed true. While I may never play Perfect Team, I most certainly will continue to enjoy the rest of the game.

[Dargone]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

Valid concerns about the current state of the industry, and I share a lot of them. But if you've been playing since OOTP1, I would hope you have a little more faith in Markus & Co. to not take us down that path.

When 3D graphics were first implemented a couple of years ago, the rallying cry for those against it was that focusing on graphics would take the dev team's attention away from the game engine, and the game would suffer, all for some "pointless" animations. That didn't happen then, and I don't expect it to happen now. Markus cares too much about this game to let it go by the wayside for a quick buck.

On the state of the industry as a whole, you're spot-on. But OOTP as a company is and always has been an outlier, and that's why I keep coming back to it, and will support them in whatever they choose to do.

Very fair point about the 3D graphics and I was a huge fan of those. Still am. The fact that Markus has seen my concerns and posted that there is nothing to worry about makes me feel much better. He is a great developer and has earned the benefit of the doubt from me at this point. As previously stated, I'll be pre-ordering OOTP 20 and will be the first to post about how awesome it is assuming the same dedication is given to the core game that has been seen for close to twenty years.

[pstrickert]

I didn't think I'd enjoy this game mode (and I still wonder if the newness will wear off), but so far I'm enjoying it. I was even thinking about it in bed last night, contemplating what my next move might be. I suppose Markus could have added this game mode and not enabled the purchase of PPs. However, it might've forced him to bump the game price up for all of us. Instead, we're left with a choice. We can choose not to play PT. Or we can play PT but not pay for PP. Or we can play PT and pay for PP. I imagine, once promotion/relegation kicks in, it'll still be fun, regardless of how we choose to play the game. Plus, with Markus' track record -- and transparency -- we can trust him when he says he'll turn the extra revenue into further game development.

[redmoss2]

I just want to chime in and say that there cannot be, with the introduction of this mode that involves real money, a simple split of "If you don't like it, don't play it". OOTPD now do have an increased responsibility to players as a result of this. It is a totally different ball game (no pun intended) when you step into this arena, and I say that only as someone who has experience with such in mobile.


I don't mean this to be a criticism at such an early stage but complacency around introducting a transactional game mode can result in incredibly challenging issues. Now, having said that, OOTPD response to challenges has been fantastic and I want to take nothing away from that.

[waylander]

This mode is great, and you don't have to spend a dime to enjoy it.... if you don't like it, no harm - no foul. I'd say, give it a shot -doesn't cost anything to start and comes free with the core game.

[grall1126]

I didn't even know this was about real $$$$$$$$$. Sort of like World of Tanks, World of Warships etc.

I have version 14, 17, and 19.

I will play and enjoy. I never pay money for the other free games, I listed. Thanks for making a fun game.

Go Mets ------ ughhhhhh

[acclaim99]

You don't have to spend money if you dont want to. The achievements should get you like a free pack every day...

I have a 100, and 2 golds, pretty solid team... money spent = $0

[Kushiel]

And about every week you get the thrill of a new season where everybody has a chance at the World Series. Then, every Saturday night you get to shake your fist and scream"Wait till next year!"

[Maddox]

Originally Posted by acclaim99

You don't have to spend money if you dont want to. The achievements should get you like a free pack every day...

I have a 100, and 2 golds, pretty solid team... money spent = $0

A free pack every day. If you are managing that then that is pretty insanely lucky.

I have not earned a single PP today at all.

[acclaim99]

Originally Posted by Maddox

A free pack every day. If you are managing that then that is pretty insanely lucky.

I have not earned a single PP today at all.

Really? That's lucky? There are some times I get home from work with enough to buy 2.

I posted my team in the Who's Your Starters thread, updated team, so it's the last post. It's nothing special, but I do have the 100 and couple golds... during the (whatever it's called, pre-real-season) all my guys were batting high we were making big comebacks, so i was getting a lot of PP.

In the regular season, my avg is low, so Im not earning as much, but stll a pack a day.

[Maddox]

Originally Posted by acclaim99

Really? That's lucky? There are some times I get home from work with enough to buy 2.

I posted my team in the Who's Your Starters thread, updated team, so it's the last post. It's nothing special, but I do have the 100 and couple golds... during the (whatever it's called, pre-real-season) all my guys were batting high we were making big comebacks, so i was getting a lot of PP.

In the regular season, my avg is low, so Im not earning as much, but stll a pack a day.

Yeah, I have only earned 2,385 PP so far in total and I started as soon as it opened up. My team still has a winning record and I am in the midst of 25 straight games without earning any points at all.

So either you are insanely lucky or I am insanely unlucky. The truth probably is somewhere in the middle.

Mainly I am just a little salty about it right now. I can't work on upgrading my team if I can't earn points

[Dargone]

Originally Posted by acclaim99

You don't have to spend money if you dont want to. The achievements should get you like a free pack every day...

I have a 100, and 2 golds, pretty solid team... money spent = $0

The pay to win aspect may be much better here than in other sports games. I will be interested to see how this pans out over the long run. If the game liberally awards points for card packs, then that will go a long way to alleviate the concerns where spending real money is required to remain competitive with the top dogs.

Unfortunately, this has not been the case in gaming. Nearly all games with some type of point system, that is purchasable using real world currency, tend to be very stingy with earning points/packs in game. Typically requiring users to spend a ridiculous amount of time to earn points. This is why it can be so easy to open up the wallet and pay for points/packs. So many game companies have gone down this path of greed while treating their customers like wallets.

As much as this mode may be fun, it is also a way to potentially generate a lot of extra revenue for OOTP developments. Of course, Markus and company deserve to make a living creating their software. We all work for a wage. The problem arises when greed sets in and gaming companies start thinking of more ways to squeeze every last nickel from their customers and innovation goes out the window. In my opinion this is a cancer of modern gaming and I don't want to see OOTP Developments go down the path of so many studios. I don't want to see the monetization of OOTP ruin this franchise like it has nearly every other sports franchise around.

I'd like to thank everyone for a very good discussion and I appreciate the kind words I have received. Also, a special thanks to Markus for continuing to participate in the community. I'm sure he is quite busy at the moment.

Hopefully it's obvious how much I enjoy OOTP. That is why I posted this thread. I want to see this franchise continue to grow and continue to be innovative and a great value for gamers. We need great games, especially in the current state of gaming.

Lastly, I do have faith in Markus and since he stated that OOTP development will continue the same as it always has I feel my concerns have been noted. I am also confident that if any developer can create a game with this type of monetization AND MAKE IT CONSUMER FRIENDLY it is Markus.

Thanks for reading.