Since the last update, relievers are batting frequently again

Westheim · 02-14-2016, 09:08 AM

What the title says. Since the last update was pushed out, I am frequently seeing opposing relievers bat again, no matter how far (or not far) behind their team is in the late innings. Like below. There were at least three instances of this in the last four weeks of baseball I played out, and that's only those I am aware of and that didn't come in obvious mop-up situations. This is not a case of having to mop up. They are down four runs with two outs left. Stranger things have happened.

Anybody else seeing this, too?

David Watts · 02-14-2016, 04:35 PM

I thought I noticed this as well when fooling around with a non DH league. Thought maybe it was the period I was playing (1964), but it was bizarre enough that I switched league to a DH league. Needs to be fixed even if the new version is near.

kq76 · 02-14-2016, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Watts

I thought I noticed this as well when fooling around with a non DH league. Thought maybe it was the period I was playing (1964), but it was bizarre enough that I switched league to a DH league. Needs to be fixed even if the new version is near.

It's all a conspiracy by OOTP to turn NL-lovers into AL-accepters. :P

Westheim · 02-14-2016, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kq76

It's all a conspiracy by OOTP to turn NL-lovers into AL-accepters. :P

I'd rather stop playing OOTP.

RchW · 02-14-2016, 05:19 PM

I checked the numbers in my league in a season played only with the last update. I can't see anything with two different sorts. Mid-season about 86 games played.

If I'm missing something let me know.

Edit I took out CL in a third sort. Still can't see anything.

Honorable_Pawn · 02-14-2016, 05:23 PM

It's how they get you to buy 17.

Westheim · 02-14-2016, 05:50 PM

Current season, almost over. A few swingmen are cut off at the top of the table, those naturally have plenty of AB's. The list starts with the relievers without starts and the most AB's.

While some are genuine long relievers, like Wes Gardner, even they are sometimes used to log one or two outs and then get an at-bat. Example of that in the third picture, where Pittsburgh's Jose Medina pitched to one batter before batting to lead off the bottom 9th for his team. Yes, there were pinch-hitters readily available.

Looking at the batting logs for about 20 of the top-AB'ed relievers, more than half of them has AB's frequently starting in July, with almost none from the start of the season into July. This is true for decent teams as well as for Wes Gardner and Gabriel Caro, who are on the horrendous Loggers that make a run for 110 losses with the worst pitching staff I've seen in a while. Even those two have the majority of AB's come in the last about two months played, or in other words, after the release of 16.10.42 ...

RchW · 02-14-2016, 06:28 PM

Is it the often mentioned difference between simming and playing out?

See RL in 2015. I had to sort on 39 G to keep the full time SP out but with the exception of Petit RP get almost no PA.

bwburke94 · 02-14-2016, 06:35 PM

I'm still running 16.9, so I can do a counter-test.

Saul Goodman · 02-15-2016, 02:42 AM

Decided to have a look on my game (installed the patch in the 2017 pre-season) and it seems like relievers PA's are up across the board on my MLB game for 2017 compared to 2016, many relievers have 5+ PA's for the season (some were up to as high as 9 or 10 iirc) and I'm only in September while for the duration of 2016 many of those same relievers had 1 maybe 2 PA's.

Could be a coincidence but I'm not so sure having seen this thread.

Westheim · 02-15-2016, 02:50 AM

The difference to pre-patch is rather stark. It can't be a settings thing, since the settings are the same. The patch did something.

Looking at my own team, for which I am not shying away from occasionally hitting a reliever if I really, really need him in the next inning, and excluding a late trade pickup, the most AB anybody on the team has is four, and I know there's a failed bunt in there.

Something was changed in .42 and I am not a happy customer right now.

kq76 · 02-15-2016, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Westheim

Current season, almost over. A few swingmen are cut off at the top of the table, those naturally have plenty of AB's. The list starts with the relievers without starts and the most AB's.

While some are genuine long relievers, like Wes Gardner, even they are sometimes used to log one or two outs and then get an at-bat. Example of that in the third picture, where Pittsburgh's Jose Medina pitched to one batter before batting to lead off the bottom 9th for his team. Yes, there were pinch-hitters readily available.

Looking at the batting logs for about 20 of the top-AB'ed relievers, more than half of them has AB's frequently starting in July, with almost none from the start of the season into July. This is true for decent teams as well as for Wes Gardner and Gabriel Caro, who are on the horrendous Loggers that make a run for 110 losses with the worst pitching staff I've seen in a while. Even those two have the majority of AB's come in the last about two months played, or in other words, after the release of 16.10.42 ...

Since I'm playing out games in beta, I'll try to keep an eye out for this for OOTP17. Just to be clear, are you saying it's mostly long relievers you're seeing this happen with or other relievers too?

Westheim · 02-15-2016, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kq76

Since I'm playing out games in beta, I'll try to keep an eye out for this for OOTP17. Just to be clear, are you saying it's mostly long relievers you're seeing this happen with or other relievers too?

Long and middle relievers seem to be involved more frequently than setup relievers. The list above shows f.e. no regular closer, so those don't appear to bat as often, despite the AI's tendency to use them for two or even three innings (9th to 11th, f.e.). But the AI is definitely indifferent towards long and middle relievers batting, even in non-hopeless situations.

bwburke94 · 02-15-2016, 05:13 AM

From my patch #7 testing a few months ago, pitchers tend to bat in the following scenarios:

The pitcher is a long reliever
The pitcher has not pitched a complete inning and did not enter as part of a double switch
No position players left on the bench

It appears none of these were the case in the OP.

David Watts · 02-15-2016, 09:40 AM

Just for kicks I just set up a 8 team Gulf Coast league. 1973 default settings/strategy. First game, team losing 6-2 bottom of the sixth, starting pitcher is allowed to hit with 2 on base. First game of season, so everyone is well rested. 8th inning, same team is losing, but now only 6-5. The starting pitcher is allowed to hit with runners on base. Funny thing, the very next inning, the team that's winning actually pinch hits for their pitcher.

David Watts · 02-15-2016, 09:47 AM

Second game---Birmingham losing to Jackson, 3-2 top of the 8th. Runner on 1B, 1 out, pitchers turn to bat. He bats.

David Watts · 02-15-2016, 10:08 AM

Game 5, Beaumont at Mobile. Beaumont losing 3-1, top of the 7th, 1 out. Pitcher bats.

David Watts · 02-15-2016, 10:13 AM

Baton Rouge vs Corpus Christi. Corpus losing 5-0 bottom of the 9th, 0 outs, Corpus Christi relief pitcher Mark Brown is allowed to hit for himself.

David Watts · 02-15-2016, 10:17 AM

Shreveport vs Jackson. Shreveport down 3-1 in 7th. Pitcher bats.

David Watts · 02-15-2016, 10:27 AM

Changed pinch hit for pitcher frequency from default 73 setting of normal to often. Texarkana vs Birmingham. Birmingham losing 2-0, bottom of the 8th, runner on 1B, 0 out. Starting pitcher John Blevins is allowed to bat.

02-14-2016, 09:08 AM	#1
Westheim Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Germany Posts: 13,744	Since the last update, relievers are batting frequently again What the title says. Since the last update was pushed out, I am frequently seeing opposing relievers bat again, no matter how far (or not far) behind their team is in the late innings. Like below. There were at least three instances of this in the last four weeks of baseball I played out, and that's only those I am aware of and that didn't come in obvious mop-up situations. This is not a case of having to mop up. They are down four runs with two outs left. Stranger things have happened. Anybody else seeing this, too? Attached Images __________________ Portland Raccoons, 92 years of excell-.... of baseball: Furballs here! 1983 * 1989 * 1991 * 1992 * 1993 * 1995 * 1996 * 2010 * 2017 * 2018 * 2019 * 2026 * 2028 * 2035 * 2037 * 2044 * 2045 * 2046 * 2047 * 2048 * 2051 * 2054 * 2055 * 2061 1 OSANAI : 2 POWELL : 7 NOMURA \| RAMOS : 8 REECE : 10 BROWN : 15 HALL : 27 FERNANDEZ : 28 CASAS : 31 CARMONA : 32 WEST : 39 TONER : 46 SAITO Resident Mets Cynic - The Mets from 1962 onwards, here.

02-14-2016, 05:19 PM	#5
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	I checked the numbers in my league in a season played only with the last update. I can't see anything with two different sorts. Mid-season about 86 games played. If I'm missing something let me know. Edit I took out CL in a third sort. Still can't see anything. Attached Images __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit Last edited by RchW; 02-14-2016 at 05:26 PM.

02-14-2016, 05:23 PM	#6
Honorable_Pawn Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 6,407	It's how they get you to buy 17. __________________ PBA Quickstart for OOTP Background Images Collection All PBA games broadcast live on Steam.

02-14-2016, 06:28 PM	#8
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	Is it the often mentioned difference between simming and playing out? See RL in 2015. I had to sort on 39 G to keep the full time SP out but with the exception of Petit RP get almost no PA. Attached Images __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

02-15-2016, 02:50 AM	#11
Westheim Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Germany Posts: 13,744	The difference to pre-patch is rather stark. It can't be a settings thing, since the settings are the same. The patch did something. Looking at my own team, for which I am not shying away from occasionally hitting a reliever if I really, really need him in the next inning, and excluding a late trade pickup, the most AB anybody on the team has is four, and I know there's a failed bunt in there. Something was changed in .42 and I am not a happy customer right now. __________________ Portland Raccoons, 92 years of excell-.... of baseball: Furballs here! 1983 * 1989 * 1991 * 1992 * 1993 * 1995 * 1996 * 2010 * 2017 * 2018 * 2019 * 2026 * 2028 * 2035 * 2037 * 2044 * 2045 * 2046 * 2047 * 2048 * 2051 * 2054 * 2055 * 2061 1 OSANAI : 2 POWELL : 7 NOMURA \| RAMOS : 8 REECE : 10 BROWN : 15 HALL : 27 FERNANDEZ : 28 CASAS : 31 CARMONA : 32 WEST : 39 TONER : 46 SAITO Resident Mets Cynic - The Mets from 1962 onwards, here.

02-14-2016, 04:35 PM	#2
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 9,868 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	I thought I noticed this as well when fooling around with a non DH league. Thought maybe it was the period I was playing (1964), but it was bizarre enough that I switched league to a DH league. Needs to be fixed even if the new version is near.

02-14-2016, 05:50 PM	#7
Westheim Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Germany Posts: 13,744	Current season, almost over. A few swingmen are cut off at the top of the table, those naturally have plenty of AB's. The list starts with the relievers without starts and the most AB's. While some are genuine long relievers, like Wes Gardner, even they are sometimes used to log one or two outs and then get an at-bat. Example of that in the third picture, where Pittsburgh's Jose Medina pitched to one batter before batting to lead off the bottom 9th for his team. Yes, there were pinch-hitters readily available. Looking at the batting logs for about 20 of the top-AB'ed relievers, more than half of them has AB's frequently starting in July, with almost none from the start of the season into July. This is true for decent teams as well as for Wes Gardner and Gabriel Caro, who are on the horrendous Loggers that make a run for 110 losses with the worst pitching staff I've seen in a while. Even those two have the majority of AB's come in the last about two months played, or in other words, after the release of 16.10.42 ... Attached Images __________________ Portland Raccoons, 92 years of excell-.... of baseball: Furballs here! 1983 * 1989 * 1991 * 1992 * 1993 * 1995 * 1996 * 2010 * 2017 * 2018 * 2019 * 2026 * 2028 * 2035 * 2037 * 2044 * 2045 * 2046 * 2047 * 2048 * 2051 * 2054 * 2055 * 2061 1 OSANAI : 2 POWELL : 7 NOMURA \| RAMOS : 8 REECE : 10 BROWN : 15 HALL : 27 FERNANDEZ : 28 CASAS : 31 CARMONA : 32 WEST : 39 TONER : 46 SAITO Resident Mets Cynic - The Mets from 1962 onwards, here.

02-14-2016, 06:35 PM	#9
bwburke94 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Belchertown, MA, USA Posts: 4,506	I'm still running 16.9, so I can do a counter-test.

02-15-2016, 02:42 AM	#10
Saul Goodman Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Perth, WA Posts: 125	Decided to have a look on my game (installed the patch in the 2017 pre-season) and it seems like relievers PA's are up across the board on my MLB game for 2017 compared to 2016, many relievers have 5+ PA's for the season (some were up to as high as 9 or 10 iirc) and I'm only in September while for the duration of 2016 many of those same relievers had 1 maybe 2 PA's. Could be a coincidence but I'm not so sure having seen this thread.

02-15-2016, 05:13 AM	#14
bwburke94 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Belchertown, MA, USA Posts: 4,506	From my patch #7 testing a few months ago, pitchers tend to bat in the following scenarios: The pitcher is a long reliever The pitcher has not pitched a complete inning and did not enter as part of a double switch No position players left on the bench It appears none of these were the case in the OP.

02-15-2016, 09:40 AM	#15
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 9,868 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Just for kicks I just set up a 8 team Gulf Coast league. 1973 default settings/strategy. First game, team losing 6-2 bottom of the sixth, starting pitcher is allowed to hit with 2 on base. First game of season, so everyone is well rested. 8th inning, same team is losing, but now only 6-5. The starting pitcher is allowed to hit with runners on base. Funny thing, the very next inning, the team that's winning actually pinch hits for their pitcher. Last edited by David Watts; 02-15-2016 at 09:41 AM.

02-15-2016, 09:47 AM	#16
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 9,868 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Second game---Birmingham losing to Jackson, 3-2 top of the 8th. Runner on 1B, 1 out, pitchers turn to bat. He bats.

02-15-2016, 10:08 AM	#17
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 9,868 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Game 5, Beaumont at Mobile. Beaumont losing 3-1, top of the 7th, 1 out. Pitcher bats.

02-15-2016, 10:13 AM	#18
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 9,868 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Baton Rouge vs Corpus Christi. Corpus losing 5-0 bottom of the 9th, 0 outs, Corpus Christi relief pitcher Mark Brown is allowed to hit for himself.

02-15-2016, 10:17 AM	#19
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 9,868 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Shreveport vs Jackson. Shreveport down 3-1 in 7th. Pitcher bats.

02-15-2016, 10:27 AM	#20
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 9,868 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Changed pinch hit for pitcher frequency from default 73 setting of normal to often. Texarkana vs Birmingham. Birmingham losing 2-0, bottom of the 8th, runner on 1B, 0 out. Starting pitcher John Blevins is allowed to bat.