Roy Halladay and Cliff Lee traded

Jeffy25 · 12-14-2009, 05:18 PM

I am surprised you guys haven't talked about it yet.

Halladay to the Phillies, Lee to the Mariners, 3 team deal.

According to mlbtraderumors.com

theasfl · 12-14-2009, 05:25 PM

When does Lee's deal expire?

phightin · 12-14-2009, 05:41 PM

And the Ruben Amaro era in philadelphia begins...

Lee's deal ends at the end of 2010 and they figure the benefit is that they'll sign Halladay to a long term deal. This just sort of reminds the two kids on the playground who get into fight for the sake of fighting, there was absolutely no reason to make this trade. Even if they were not going to sign Lee next season based on how the finances stacked up they still could have probably waited to the deadline. Seattle gets Lee though who is better than Halladay when he's on his A game so win for them. Amaro takes the first steps of what will be many in destroying an inherited team.

kq76 · 12-14-2009, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theasfl

When does Lee's deal expire?

At the end of the upcoming season. The Phillies last month exercised the club option in his contract.

Halladay has a fair bit better Career ERA+, but he is a year older and I thought Philly was happy with Lee so I'm a bit surprised by this. Halladay to Philly for some reason has always seemed like the perfect fit to me though.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl.../leecl02.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...allaro01.shtml

crackpott · 12-14-2009, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phightin

Seattle gets Lee though who is better than Halladay when he's on his A game so win for them.

Umm... what?

phightin · 12-14-2009, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crackpott

Umm... what?

did you watch the playoffs this year or Lee's Cy Young season a couple years agao? When he is pitching his best Halladay isn't as good as him, as pretty much most of the other pitchers in the league. Roy is certainly a great pitcher but he isn't as good as Lee when he has his best stuff.

jbergey22 · 12-14-2009, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phightin

did you watch the playoffs this year or Lee's Cy Young season a couple years agao? When he is pitching his best Halladay isn't as good as him, as pretty much most of the other pitchers in the league. Roy is certainly a great pitcher but he isn't as good as Lee when he has his best stuff.

Lee may have been better than Halladay at points in the past 2 seasons but Halladay is one of the top 3 pitchers in the game.

When Lee has his best stuff Halladay is still a better pitcher IMO. You may not be exactly sure who this Halladay guy is, heres a link check it out.

Roy Halladay Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

crackpott · 12-14-2009, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phightin

did you watch the playoffs this year or Lee's Cy Young season a couple years agao? When he is pitching his best Halladay isn't as good as him, as pretty much most of the other pitchers in the league. Roy is certainly a great pitcher but he isn't as good as Lee when he has his best stuff.

Lee's 2008 season was slightly better than Halladay's, but not substantially. The playoffs were 5 total games. Yes, he did well, but let's not let 5 total games overrule almost a decade of pitching where Halladay has been the better player.

Also, I'm not sure of Lee's clubhouse role, but I'm going to be sad to lose Halladay largely for that. The effect he's had over the years on young pitchers is well documented...

Jeffy25 · 12-14-2009, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phightin

did you watch the playoffs this year or Lee's Cy Young season a couple years agao? When he is pitching his best Halladay isn't as good as him, as pretty much most of the other pitchers in the league. Roy is certainly a great pitcher but he isn't as good as Lee when he has his best stuff.

No, Roy Halladay is easily the better pitcher against Lee.

This is a good deal, as it appears for all three teams.

Jeffy25 · 12-14-2009, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Lee may have been better than Halladay at points in the past 2 seasons but Halladay is one of the top 3 pitchers in the game.

When Lee has his best stuff Halladay is still a better pitcher IMO. You may not be exactly sure who this Halladay guy is, heres a link check it out.

Roy Halladay Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

and you will note who he pitches against.

the freaking A.L. East, where he is on one of the two weaker teams.

Halladay is a total beast and will completely tear through the National League.

Bluenoser · 12-14-2009, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffy25

No, Roy Halladay is easily the better pitcher against Lee.

This is a good deal, as it appears for all three teams.

Until we see what the Jays get in return, it's not a good deal for Toronto. Right now the only thing we know is Halladay to Philly, Lee to Seattle. So it's a good deal for two teams thus far.

Jeffy25 · 12-14-2009, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruceM

Until we see what the Jays get in return, it's not a good deal for Toronto. Right now the only thing we know is Halladay to Philly, Lee to Seattle. So it's a good deal for two teams thus far.

They have reported the player's likely to be involved

Phils, Ms, Blue Jays Agree On Halladay-Cliff Lee Blockbuster: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

This wouldn't hurt the Mariners at all, it's a good deal for the Phillies, obviously, and the Jays get players that are undervalued, yet above average players and solid prospects that can help them for several years.

Rizon · 12-14-2009, 07:21 PM

Toronto's not going anywhere for a long time, so doesn't really matter what they get. At least Halladay get's a chance to be on a team that has a shot.

turdfurgeson · 12-14-2009, 07:27 PM

As a mariner fan, I like the deal. I would prefer Lee over Doc, just because I think Lee is a better fit in the park they play in and comes with less commitment salary wise.

One year at of Lee at 9 million vs whatever Halladay signs for is okay by me. This gives the mariners a nice one two punch in the rotation. Nice for a team that looks to be playing in a weak division next year. Especially with all the players the Angels have been losing (even though I would not count them out at all)

jbergey22 · 12-14-2009, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turdfurgeson

As a mariner fan, I like the deal. I would prefer Lee over Doc, just because I think Lee is a better fit in the park they play in and comes with less commitment salary wise.

One year at of Lee at 9 million vs whatever Halladay signs for is okay by me. This gives the mariners a nice one two punch in the rotation. Nice for a team that looks to be playing in a weak division next year. Especially with all the players the Angels have been losing (even though I would not count them out at all)

I agree. Lee being a flyball pitcher in a huge park seems like a good fit while Halladay's ground ball pitching in the small park at Philly seems to make sense for both teams.

Are teams starting to think a little bit?

Jeffy25 · 12-14-2009, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I agree. Lee being a flyball pitcher in a huge park seems like a good fit while Halladay's ground ball pitching in the small park at Philly seems to make sense for both teams.

Are teams starting to think a little bit?

Could it be?!

phightin · 12-14-2009, 07:42 PM

I don't have a problem with them trading Michael Taylor if it means they resign werth. Apparently the phils were in talks to re-sign lee to an extension last week and when they heard his asking price they wanted no parts of it. I think a lot of this plays into finances as well. The phillies need to have room to resign Howard, Werth, Victorino, and Rollins over the next couple of years, which will be hard to get all 4, but if Halladay allows them more flexibility than I'm all for it. As I said all along while the phils are a big market team now they are still no where close to what upper echelon yankees, red sox, cubs, etc in terms of resources to sign players.

Jeffy25 · 12-14-2009, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phightin

I don't have a problem with them trading Michael Taylor if it means they resign werth. Apparently the phils were in talks to re-sign lee to an extension last week and when they heard his asking price they wanted no parts of it. I think a lot of this plays into finances as well. The phillies need to have room to resign Howard, Werth, Victorino, and Rollins over the next couple of years, which will be hard to get all 4, but if Halladay allows them more flexibility than I'm all for it. As I said all along while the phils are a big market team now they are still no where close to what upper echelon yankees, red sox, cubs, etc in terms of resources to sign players.

Yes, I think a lot of this deal is being made because they didn't feel comfortable with Lee's asking price.

However, they are expected to pay Halladay 3/60

turdfurgeson · 12-14-2009, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I agree. Lee being a flyball pitcher in a huge park seems like a good fit while Halladay's ground ball pitching in the small park at Philly seems to make sense for both teams.

Are teams starting to think a little bit?

Well, the Mariners new front office has been thinking quite alot, which is a nice change from the last regime.

Dwight Schrute · 12-14-2009, 08:07 PM

well dang. i wanna be a phil fan. what is it like to have your team make smart moves and build on what they got, looking for ways to improve and not afraid to make a move?

da&% you mccourt, piss or get off the pot. do something or sell. stop whining how the team does not have money to make a move. what was attendance like last year? this BS has been ongoing for too many years. if the divorce is gonna snarl the team then do the right thing!

$100 mil payroll for a team that constantly in the upper tier of attendance?

12-14-2009, 05:18 PM	#1
Jeffy25 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 2,506	Roy Halladay and Cliff Lee traded I am surprised you guys haven't talked about it yet. Halladay to the Phillies, Lee to the Mariners, 3 team deal. According to mlbtraderumors.com

12-14-2009, 05:25 PM	#2
theasfl Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Coral Springs, FL or Orlando, FL (UCF) Posts: 7,988	When does Lee's deal expire? __________________ All-Sports Fantasy League The ASFL 22 different games, 9 sports. Please check out the website (www.theasfl.com/asfl2/). The league is free- if you're interested please fill out the signup form and/or email the commissioner. Miami Talons (ABL): 2004, 2005 & 2008 Champs

12-14-2009, 05:41 PM	#3
phightin All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 586	And the Ruben Amaro era in philadelphia begins... Lee's deal ends at the end of 2010 and they figure the benefit is that they'll sign Halladay to a long term deal. This just sort of reminds the two kids on the playground who get into fight for the sake of fighting, there was absolutely no reason to make this trade. Even if they were not going to sign Lee next season based on how the finances stacked up they still could have probably waited to the deadline. Seattle gets Lee though who is better than Halladay when he's on his A game so win for them. Amaro takes the first steps of what will be many in destroying an inherited team. Last edited by phightin; 12-14-2009 at 05:46 PM.

12-14-2009, 07:21 PM	#13
Rizon Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: SF Area, California Total Posts: 531,691 Posts: 2,370	Toronto's not going anywhere for a long time, so doesn't really matter what they get. At least Halladay get's a chance to be on a team that has a shot. __________________ JML MILKSHAKES

12-14-2009, 08:07 PM	#20
Dwight Schrute Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: scranton, PA Posts: 93	well dang. i wanna be a phil fan. what is it like to have your team make smart moves and build on what they got, looking for ways to improve and not afraid to make a move? da&% you mccourt, piss or get off the pot. do something or sell. stop whining how the team does not have money to make a move. what was attendance like last year? this BS has been ongoing for too many years. if the divorce is gonna snarl the team then do the right thing! $100 mil payroll for a team that constantly in the upper tier of attendance? __________________ Dwight K Schrute "Oh D!!......Oh D!!!"

12-14-2009, 07:27 PM	#14
turdfurgeson Major Leagues Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 421	As a mariner fan, I like the deal. I would prefer Lee over Doc, just because I think Lee is a better fit in the park they play in and comes with less commitment salary wise. One year at of Lee at 9 million vs whatever Halladay signs for is okay by me. This gives the mariners a nice one two punch in the rotation. Nice for a team that looks to be playing in a weak division next year. Especially with all the players the Angels have been losing (even though I would not count them out at all)

12-14-2009, 07:42 PM	#17
phightin All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 586	I don't have a problem with them trading Michael Taylor if it means they resign werth. Apparently the phils were in talks to re-sign lee to an extension last week and when they heard his asking price they wanted no parts of it. I think a lot of this plays into finances as well. The phillies need to have room to resign Howard, Werth, Victorino, and Rollins over the next couple of years, which will be hard to get all 4, but if Halladay allows them more flexibility than I'm all for it. As I said all along while the phils are a big market team now they are still no where close to what upper echelon yankees, red sox, cubs, etc in terms of resources to sign players.