Halladay: Who wants him?

crackpott · 07-25-2009, 10:13 PM

I realized I shouldn't be hijacking the Phillies thread, so... thought I'd see what the fans of the teams involved in the bidding so far think.

What JP has asked for (reportedly) from various teams:

Phillies:

Drabek
Happ
Brown

----------------

Angels:

Saunders
Wood
Aybar
Bourjos/Reckling/O'Sullivan

-----------------

Yankees:

Chamberlain
Hughes
"2 more" (Given in division, I'm speculating Montero has to be one of them)

-----------------

Other teams with reported interest are the Dodgers (JP wants Kershaw, but they don't want to trade him...), Rays, and to a lesser extent, Texas, Cincinnati, and Milwaukee.
-----------------

As a Jays fan, I really don't like the Phillies offer. I'm not excited by either pitching prospect as much as they seem hyped, and Brown is still a while away. What JP asked for from the Angels would be nice, as would the Yankees package (if Monterro is in it).

I'd like to hear from fans of these teams, as well as Jays fans...

kq76 · 07-25-2009, 10:33 PM

I know next to nothing about any of the prospects mentioned, but I'm confident that if JP does do a deal that he'll screw it up. I mean, I hear that the Phillies are willing to give up 1 of those 2 guys, but not both? Sorry, but that's good enough. And yet it sounds like JP is fine with that and will instead take a bunch of minor leaguers who probably at best will only get a seat on the bench. Yeah, Beeston is there which gives me hope, but he's not a talent evaluator so all he can do is rely on what people he know say.

The Yankees could give their entire farm system and I'd still think it'd be a bad deal. You don't trade maybe the best Bluejay ever to the hated Yankees, no matter how much cash they're willing to include. That goes for the Red Sox too.

The Angels I could see and that wouldn't be too bad I guess. I'd prefer it if he were sent to the NL so we don't have him reminding us what we gave up so much and I actually kind of like the Phillies so that'd be nice, but by the sounds of it to me the Phillies are really the only team that is that interested. I actually thought the Cards might go after him, but it looks like that's not the case now. He'd look good (or at least familiar, I guess) in a Dodgers uniform and you'd think that'd be a good fit, but besides Kershaw apparently the Dodgers don't want to increase their payroll.

It's too bad that Halladay wants to see free agency. We probably could have got more for him if the receiving team could sign him to an extension.

jaxmagicman · 07-25-2009, 10:42 PM

I guess this whole thing shows how lucky the Phillies were last year to win everything. They have no clue what they are doing. Niether one of those prospects are going to be anywhere near Halladay, yet they are refusing to give them up. I would have said done two weeks ago. Halladay is better than those players are, and if you can get him without giving up anything on your MLB club, why not do it?

bababui · 07-25-2009, 10:51 PM

As an Angels fan I wouldnt make that trade. If I remember correctly, Halladay is 32. Too old to give up 2 starters and the left side of the infield.

stevebydac · 07-25-2009, 11:03 PM

The Red Sox want him too, and have the prospects necessary, but don't seem desperate and/or willing enough to part with them. And the Jays would be crazy to trade him within the division. My hunch is he goes to Philly.

Left-handed Badger · 07-25-2009, 11:11 PM

As Jays fan, I think Ricciardi is overplaying his hand. Teams generally dont give their #1 and #2 prospects(much less the #3 too) in the same trade. It'll likely be Aug. 1 with Halladay a Blue Jay. If he doesnt have to trade Halladay ok. But, if anyway he needs to trade Halladay now.....

He probably needs to make more of a Santana type deal where he 4 of the Top 10 prospects but not quite the Top4. (I believe for the Santana deal Gomez the previous year had been #3, Humber and mUlvey #4/#6, can remember though)

I suspect Halladay if he goes will go somewhere in the off-season, to a team who is an ace pitcher away from the WS.

Left-handed Badger · 07-25-2009, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bababui

As an Angels fan I wouldnt make that trade. If I remember correctly, Halladay is 32. Too old to give up 2 starters and the left side of the infield.

Well, they might as well trade Wood. For some mysterious reason they seem to have gotten it into their head never to give him a chance.

phightin · 07-26-2009, 12:42 AM

well you already know my opinion of why I wouldn't want this trade but to answer your questions I'll just shed light on the phillies situation as it stands right now from my understanding. The Phillies as reported were the favorites to land him as they were the team out there that had the most and best prospects to give so finally the offer for them to give up Drabek, Happ, and Brown for Halladay was given. They rejected but said they were willing to negotiate and amaro and riccardi were apparently going over a shortlist of 8 prospects that would piece together in a 3 or 4 for 1 deal for Halladay. However, the problem is Riccardi is demanding Drabek and Happ to both be in the deal and the Phillies have stated absolutely not, you can have one or the other, but absolutely not both of them. However, it's interesting to note that supposedly since those talks happened earlier today, coming from the local media sources here, the phillies have since shut down talks with the blue jays. So while it's likely that he still won't go anywhere, philly may actually be out of it now, unless the jays are willing to go back on their stance for both happ and drabek.

I'll go over the list of what I believe are the 8 prospects the jays are looking at from the phillies:

1. J.A. Happ - 7-1 with a very good era and now widely regarded as one of, if not, the best rookie pitchers this season.

2. Kyle Drabek - 10-2 with around a 2.50 era in the minors this season and is widely regarded as one of the top pitching prospects in baseball. projected to be allstar caliber.

3. Dominic Brown - Young outfielder who i don't know much about but is a freak athlete and has a huge frame. Projected to be a big time power threat I believe. However he is young and still at least 2-3 years away

4. Michael Taylor- 23 years old 5 tool outfielder who does it all out there. He was absolutely obliterating AA pitching and was recently moved up to AAA where he wasted no time going on a tear. On a personal note I was surprised that the Jays asked for Brown over him as many in the organization hold him in a higher regard. He is also a guy at 23 who will basically be major league ready next season and could be counted on to possibly contribute right away. I've seen him play truly is a solid all around player.

5. Jason Donald - shortstop who is almost major league ready as well. Don't know off the top of my head what he is doing this year but I know he has had some very good seasons in the minors over the last couple years. Many see him as Jimmy Rollins replacement after next season.

6. Lou Marson - Was a very highly regarded young catcher doing well in the minors and figured to be on the team this year but performed poorly in spring training. Furthermore, has been injured most of the season. Still might be a good catcher and there's some upside as good ones are hard to come by.

7. Carlos Carasco - Many felt that he was the one who would be in the phillies rotation this year instead of Happ but after Happ beat him out at spring training he has since been up and down this year in the minors. Basically, this guy dominated the minors till his first full season in AAA this year. Still he while inconsistent he showed some good performances in the spring and at age 26 is definetly major league ready.

8. Could be a young young guy such as Knap or D'Arnaud both are years away

bababui · 07-26-2009, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Left-handed Badger

Well, they might as well trade Wood. For some mysterious reason they seem to have gotten it into their head never to give him a chance.

Wood, sure. Maybe even Saunders and another prospect. But not Aybar. If Halladay was 27 maybe.

mrskippy · 07-26-2009, 02:23 AM

Giants!!!

crackpott · 07-26-2009, 02:24 AM

Regarding Brown/Taylor, Brown is the 5-tool prospect who's younger than Taylor, but Taylor is the one with the better power potential. Frankly, I'd rather have Taylor, as it seems most of these highly regarded 5-tool prospects end up being Alex Rios. Can do a bit of everything, but not excel at anything.

crackpott · 07-26-2009, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bababui

Wood, sure. Maybe even Saunders and another prospect. But not Aybar. If Halladay was 27 maybe.

Yeah, it was Aybar that held it up. The Angels apparently offered Weaver and Wood, but JP asked for the package I posted above.

Mad Bomber · 07-26-2009, 06:37 AM

As a former Jays season ticket holder I think it would be a shame if the Jays traded Roy, and should they do that they may become a farm team for all the rest of the major leagues just as the Montreal Expos did, and we know what happened to them.

gollum65 · 07-26-2009, 09:18 AM

I'm sure teams like the Yankees & Red Sox are asking themselves why should they give up half their farm systems for a guy they could sign in a year and a half without giving up prospects. We all know Toronto won't resign him. Now if the team that trades for him had some guarantees they could get Halladay under a contract extension, that would be different. But I don't think he's interested in signing an extension anywhere.

What all this means is that unless a team like the Phillies or Dodgers are so desparate that they're willing to throw away their future, I don't see Halladay being traded, either this week or in the coming offseason. I think teams will wait for Toronto to let him walk in November, 2010.

yankeesrule · 07-26-2009, 12:09 PM

JP will overplay his hand, not deal him this trade deadline, and then when he tries to discuss moving halladay again in the offseason the potential offers will be less. Teams value their prospects highly, maybe to highly.

However, you need to ask yourself if your the GM of a team, is it worth it, both financially and long term, to give up 3-4 prospects that you feel can be solid contributors to your team and cost combined a few mil for their first few seasons, for a pitcher in his 30's, that has logged A LOT of innings recently, and will cost you big $$$

KILLERBS24 · 07-26-2009, 12:41 PM

Its not worth it if your the GM of most teams in MLB. But if your one of the like handful of teams that actually trying to win it is worth it. You give up the 3 or 4 prospects, you'll get 2 of them back when Halladay goes FA and you have 2 years with a much improved chance of winning it all.

turdfurgeson · 07-26-2009, 01:19 PM

Time to bring in a third team to help philly make it happen. I would not mind if the M's stuck their noses in ......

jaxmagicman · 07-26-2009, 01:44 PM

Well, it doesn't really matter where he goes, the Marlins are winning the World Series this year. Every 6 years, 97, 03 and now 09.

bababui · 07-26-2009, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

Well, it doesn't really matter where he goes, the Marlins are winning the World Series this year. Every 6 years, 97, 03 and now 09.

Sounds fishy to me this theory.

marc · 07-27-2009, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

I guess this whole thing shows how lucky the Phillies were last year to win everything. They have no clue what they are doing. Niether one of those prospects are going to be anywhere near Halladay, yet they are refusing to give them up. I would have said done two weeks ago. Halladay is better than those players are, and if you can get him without giving up anything on your MLB club, why not do it?

But they ARE giving up something from their MLB club, they are giving up a starting pitcher who has been by far their best this season.

I understand the Jays asking for what they are asking for, I also understand why the Phillies aren't wild about that idea.

Happ has a sub 3.00 ERA. Will he keep that up? Probably not but the fact of the matter is that the Phillies need to ADD a pitcher, not upgrade one of their starters and add 13+ mil to the payroll in the process.

Happ is a great bargain right now, he's on the books for the minimum and while he's probably pitching above his head right now, it doesn't make that much sense to move him and the two best prospects in the system when they are going to cruise into the playoffs and be a world series contender with or without Halladay.

As for the Phillies not knowing what they are doing, I guess putting together the pretty great run they've had the last 5 or so years with mainly home-grown prospects as the centerpieces of the team makes them clueless.

Like I said, I don't blame Toronto for asking for that package, it's what they should be asking for. However, that trade doesn't make the Phillies THAT much better, it drastically increases their payroll, and puts a nice little dent in their minor league system as well.

07-25-2009, 11:03 PM	#5
stevebydac All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: In a fictional baseball world Posts: 840	The Red Sox want him too, and have the prospects necessary, but don't seem desperate and/or willing enough to part with them. And the Jays would be crazy to trade him within the division. My hunch is he goes to Philly. __________________

07-26-2009, 12:42 AM	#8
phightin All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 581	well you already know my opinion of why I wouldn't want this trade but to answer your questions I'll just shed light on the phillies situation as it stands right now from my understanding. The Phillies as reported were the favorites to land him as they were the team out there that had the most and best prospects to give so finally the offer for them to give up Drabek, Happ, and Brown for Halladay was given. They rejected but said they were willing to negotiate and amaro and riccardi were apparently going over a shortlist of 8 prospects that would piece together in a 3 or 4 for 1 deal for Halladay. However, the problem is Riccardi is demanding Drabek and Happ to both be in the deal and the Phillies have stated absolutely not, you can have one or the other, but absolutely not both of them. However, it's interesting to note that supposedly since those talks happened earlier today, coming from the local media sources here, the phillies have since shut down talks with the blue jays. So while it's likely that he still won't go anywhere, philly may actually be out of it now, unless the jays are willing to go back on their stance for both happ and drabek. I'll go over the list of what I believe are the 8 prospects the jays are looking at from the phillies: 1. J.A. Happ - 7-1 with a very good era and now widely regarded as one of, if not, the best rookie pitchers this season. 2. Kyle Drabek - 10-2 with around a 2.50 era in the minors this season and is widely regarded as one of the top pitching prospects in baseball. projected to be allstar caliber. 3. Dominic Brown - Young outfielder who i don't know much about but is a freak athlete and has a huge frame. Projected to be a big time power threat I believe. However he is young and still at least 2-3 years away 4. Michael Taylor- 23 years old 5 tool outfielder who does it all out there. He was absolutely obliterating AA pitching and was recently moved up to AAA where he wasted no time going on a tear. On a personal note I was surprised that the Jays asked for Brown over him as many in the organization hold him in a higher regard. He is also a guy at 23 who will basically be major league ready next season and could be counted on to possibly contribute right away. I've seen him play truly is a solid all around player. 5. Jason Donald - shortstop who is almost major league ready as well. Don't know off the top of my head what he is doing this year but I know he has had some very good seasons in the minors over the last couple years. Many see him as Jimmy Rollins replacement after next season. 6. Lou Marson - Was a very highly regarded young catcher doing well in the minors and figured to be on the team this year but performed poorly in spring training. Furthermore, has been injured most of the season. Still might be a good catcher and there's some upside as good ones are hard to come by. 7. Carlos Carasco - Many felt that he was the one who would be in the phillies rotation this year instead of Happ but after Happ beat him out at spring training he has since been up and down this year in the minors. Basically, this guy dominated the minors till his first full season in AAA this year. Still he while inconsistent he showed some good performances in the spring and at age 26 is definetly major league ready. 8. Could be a young young guy such as Knap or D'Arnaud both are years away Last edited by phightin; 07-26-2009 at 12:45 AM.

07-26-2009, 02:24 AM	#11
crackpott Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto Posts: 2,961	Regarding Brown/Taylor, Brown is the 5-tool prospect who's younger than Taylor, but Taylor is the one with the better power potential. Frankly, I'd rather have Taylor, as it seems most of these highly regarded 5-tool prospects end up being Alex Rios. Can do a bit of everything, but not excel at anything. __________________ Abandoned Planet - Check it out. The photos don't suck anymore.

07-26-2009, 06:37 AM	#13
Mad Bomber All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,566	As a former Jays season ticket holder I think it would be a shame if the Jays traded Roy, and should they do that they may become a farm team for all the rest of the major leagues just as the Montreal Expos did, and we know what happened to them. __________________ Keep on Punchin' There are three things that go on a fighter, first your reflexes go, then your chin goes, and then your friends go. Willie Pep

07-26-2009, 09:18 AM	#14
gollum65 All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 925	I'm sure teams like the Yankees & Red Sox are asking themselves why should they give up half their farm systems for a guy they could sign in a year and a half without giving up prospects. We all know Toronto won't resign him. Now if the team that trades for him had some guarantees they could get Halladay under a contract extension, that would be different. But I don't think he's interested in signing an extension anywhere. What all this means is that unless a team like the Phillies or Dodgers are so desparate that they're willing to throw away their future, I don't see Halladay being traded, either this week or in the coming offseason. I think teams will wait for Toronto to let him walk in November, 2010. __________________ OOTP X Beta Team

07-25-2009, 10:13 PM	#1
crackpott Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto Posts: 2,961	Halladay: Who wants him? I realized I shouldn't be hijacking the Phillies thread, so... thought I'd see what the fans of the teams involved in the bidding so far think. What JP has asked for (reportedly) from various teams: Phillies: Drabek Happ Brown ---------------- Angels: Saunders Wood Aybar Bourjos/Reckling/O'Sullivan ----------------- Yankees: Chamberlain Hughes "2 more" (Given in division, I'm speculating Montero has to be one of them) ----------------- Other teams with reported interest are the Dodgers (JP wants Kershaw, but they don't want to trade him...), Rays, and to a lesser extent, Texas, Cincinnati, and Milwaukee. ----------------- As a Jays fan, I really don't like the Phillies offer. I'm not excited by either pitching prospect as much as they seem hyped, and Brown is still a while away. What JP asked for from the Angels would be nice, as would the Yankees package (if Monterro is in it). I'd like to hear from fans of these teams, as well as Jays fans... __________________ Abandoned Planet - Check it out. The photos don't suck anymore.

07-25-2009, 10:33 PM	#2
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 11,504	I know next to nothing about any of the prospects mentioned, but I'm confident that if JP does do a deal that he'll screw it up. I mean, I hear that the Phillies are willing to give up 1 of those 2 guys, but not both? Sorry, but that's good enough. And yet it sounds like JP is fine with that and will instead take a bunch of minor leaguers who probably at best will only get a seat on the bench. Yeah, Beeston is there which gives me hope, but he's not a talent evaluator so all he can do is rely on what people he know say. The Yankees could give their entire farm system and I'd still think it'd be a bad deal. You don't trade maybe the best Bluejay ever to the hated Yankees, no matter how much cash they're willing to include. That goes for the Red Sox too. The Angels I could see and that wouldn't be too bad I guess. I'd prefer it if he were sent to the NL so we don't have him reminding us what we gave up so much and I actually kind of like the Phillies so that'd be nice, but by the sounds of it to me the Phillies are really the only team that is that interested. I actually thought the Cards might go after him, but it looks like that's not the case now. He'd look good (or at least familiar, I guess) in a Dodgers uniform and you'd think that'd be a good fit, but besides Kershaw apparently the Dodgers don't want to increase their payroll. It's too bad that Halladay wants to see free agency. We probably could have got more for him if the receiving team could sign him to an extension. __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project)

07-25-2009, 10:42 PM	#3
jaxmagicman Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Retired defloration-maker living in Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 7,801	I guess this whole thing shows how lucky the Phillies were last year to win everything. They have no clue what they are doing. Niether one of those prospects are going to be anywhere near Halladay, yet they are refusing to give them up. I would have said done two weeks ago. Halladay is better than those players are, and if you can get him without giving up anything on your MLB club, why not do it? __________________ See ID Major League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of MLB Advanced Media, L.P. Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with the permission of Minor League Baseball. All rights reserved.

07-25-2009, 11:11 PM	#6
Left-handed Badger Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: at the altar of the baseball god praying for middle infield that can catch the ball Posts: 2,036	As Jays fan, I think Ricciardi is overplaying his hand. Teams generally dont give their #1 and #2 prospects(much less the #3 too) in the same trade. It'll likely be Aug. 1 with Halladay a Blue Jay. If he doesnt have to trade Halladay ok. But, if anyway he needs to trade Halladay now..... He probably needs to make more of a Santana type deal where he 4 of the Top 10 prospects but not quite the Top4. (I believe for the Santana deal Gomez the previous year had been #3, Humber and mUlvey #4/#6, can remember though) I suspect Halladay if he goes will go somewhere in the off-season, to a team who is an ace pitcher away from the WS. __________________ -Left-handed groundball specialist -Strikeouts are for wimps

07-26-2009, 02:23 AM	#10
mrskippy All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Northern California Posts: 1,011 Blog Entries: 1	Giants!!!

07-26-2009, 12:09 PM	#15
yankeesrule All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,367	JP will overplay his hand, not deal him this trade deadline, and then when he tries to discuss moving halladay again in the offseason the potential offers will be less. Teams value their prospects highly, maybe to highly. However, you need to ask yourself if your the GM of a team, is it worth it, both financially and long term, to give up 3-4 prospects that you feel can be solid contributors to your team and cost combined a few mil for their first few seasons, for a pitcher in his 30's, that has logged A LOT of innings recently, and will cost you big $$$

07-26-2009, 12:41 PM	#16
KILLERBS24 All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 938	Its not worth it if your the GM of most teams in MLB. But if your one of the like handful of teams that actually trying to win it is worth it. You give up the 3 or 4 prospects, you'll get 2 of them back when Halladay goes FA and you have 2 years with a much improved chance of winning it all. __________________ Asterisked legacy: Barry Bonds, the greatest steroid user ever

07-26-2009, 01:19 PM	#17
turdfurgeson Major Leagues Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 421	Time to bring in a third team to help philly make it happen. I would not mind if the M's stuck their noses in ......

07-26-2009, 01:44 PM	#18
jaxmagicman Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Retired defloration-maker living in Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 7,801	Well, it doesn't really matter where he goes, the Marlins are winning the World Series this year. Every 6 years, 97, 03 and now 09. __________________ See ID Major League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of MLB Advanced Media, L.P. Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with the permission of Minor League Baseball. All rights reserved.