1855 replay?

RMc · 09-22-2007, 02:14 PM

OK, here's my idea: I want to replay the history of baseball, starting not in 1901 or even 1871, but 1855. The National Association of (Amateur) Base Ball Players was founded in 1857, but I went back a few years because there were a few organized teams playing semi-regular schedules even then.

So what I want to do is play the 1855-70 seasons with fictionals (or maybe with some real players; see below), then insert real players starting in 1871. I've already set up what the "pre-history" of baseball looks like in my universe, using real team names (like the New York Knickerbockers and the Brooklyn Atlantics) and having them play more or less when they really did.

Two questions:
(1) What's the best way to set up a league so that it plays 15 seasons with fictionals, then automatically grabs the real players in time for the 1871 season?

(2) A number of stars (like Harry Wright, Joe Start, etc.) who played in the early 1870s actually debuted years earlier. Can Lahman be tweaked to include "extra", pre-1871 seasons for these players? (And don't forget James Creighton...)

RMc · 09-22-2007, 04:58 PM

Here's what my 1855 (and onward) universe looks like:

Vyper · 09-22-2007, 10:39 PM

I think I can give you vague answers... You can start a league in any year. If you go with 1855, set it up with fictional players, but point it to the database anyway. When you reach 1871, the correct players will begin importing. Since your league structure has I think 16 teams in 1871, you'll definitely have to leave the fictional players in place, as there won't be enough "pro's" to fill out the rosters. I'm not sure how OOTP would handle importing fictional and pro players though. I guess you could fill the teams with fictional players after the draft/import if there aren't enough.

Lahman's DB could be tweaked to start before 1871, but would probably take a lot of time and work. You'd have to add player stats for batting, pitching, and fielding, and then teams.csv if you don't plan to use the draft.

Also, don't forget to change the league in the batting and pitching csv's to show either AL or NL instead of AA and NA no matter how you want to handle rookies. If you don't do that, the ratings seem to get hosed.

Powderguy · 09-23-2007, 08:37 AM

Here's my suggestion, I'm not sure if this is what you were leaning towards doing. Just manually import some of the great REAL players every year, that would be interesting seeing how they mix in with the fictionals. And tweaking the database would probably take alot of work like Vyper said. Also, change all the NA, AA, UA and FL to NL in order for the players to import with correct ratings.

JHruska · 09-23-2007, 12:53 PM

There were 16 teams in the original 1857 season. Any reason you decided to go with 10 that year?

RMc · 09-24-2007, 11:41 AM

There were 16 teams in the original 1857 season. Any reason you decided to go with 10 that year?

The idea was to re-build the pre-history of pro baseball in a somewhat orderly fashion: teams fold and are replaced left and right, but in only one organization (first the NA alone, then the combined NA and AA), with even numbers of teams and a schedule of a decent length.

I figured six teams (all in NY or Brooklyn) in 1855 would be a good place to start, working slowly up to 12 teams by 1864, followed by "The Big Split" (the Brooklyn teams form the AA while the New Yorkers remain in the NA) in 1865.

As real baseball exploded in popularity after the Civil War, so do the NA and AA, expanding to 14 teams apiece in 1869. But in 1870 comes the "Professional Era": the top clubs form two all-professional leagues of eight teams each, while the remaining teams drop out of big-league baseball to form an all-amateur league. (This is basically what happened when the real National Association was formed in 1871).

The teams in my universe hew very closely to the real baseball clubs of the era; here's my spreadsheet of baseball standings from 1851-75, using Marshall Wright's invaluable book "The National Asociation of Base Ball Players, 1857-70":

RMc · 09-27-2007, 05:42 AM

Any more suggestions, guys?

No Pepper · 11-09-2007, 10:57 AM

RMc, did you ever get this started?

09-22-2007, 02:14 PM	#1
RMc All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,715	1855 replay? OK, here's my idea: I want to replay the history of baseball, starting not in 1901 or even 1871, but 1855. The National Association of (Amateur) Base Ball Players was founded in 1857, but I went back a few years because there were a few organized teams playing semi-regular schedules even then. So what I want to do is play the 1855-70 seasons with fictionals (or maybe with some real players; see below), then insert real players starting in 1871. I've already set up what the "pre-history" of baseball looks like in my universe, using real team names (like the New York Knickerbockers and the Brooklyn Atlantics) and having them play more or less when they really did. Two questions: (1) What's the best way to set up a league so that it plays 15 seasons with fictionals, then automatically grabs the real players in time for the 1871 season? (2) A number of stars (like Harry Wright, Joe Start, etc.) who played in the early 1870s actually debuted years earlier. Can Lahman be tweaked to include "extra", pre-1871 seasons for these players? (And don't forget James Creighton...) __________________ "We're all behind our baseball team..."

09-23-2007, 08:37 AM	#4
Powderguy All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: PA Posts: 724	Here's my suggestion, I'm not sure if this is what you were leaning towards doing. Just manually import some of the great REAL players every year, that would be interesting seeing how they mix in with the fictionals. And tweaking the database would probably take alot of work like Vyper said. Also, change all the NA, AA, UA and FL to NL in order for the players to import with correct ratings. __________________ GREEN BAY PACKERS AND FLORIDA GATORS!! Road Through Baseball History (1871- Relive Baseball History From The Start (1871-1892) Hustling in the World Baseball Federation *Tampa Bay Rays: Destined for Greatness

09-27-2007, 05:42 AM	#7
RMc All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,715	Any more suggestions, guys? __________________ "We're all behind our baseball team..."

11-09-2007, 10:57 AM	#8
No Pepper All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,570	RMc, did you ever get this started? __________________ Uniforms compatible with OOTP23/24 Historical Major League Baseball 1901-current Historical Major League Baseball 1871-1900 Historical Federal League Historical Negro Leagues

09-22-2007, 10:39 PM	#3
Vyper Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 114	I think I can give you vague answers... You can start a league in any year. If you go with 1855, set it up with fictional players, but point it to the database anyway. When you reach 1871, the correct players will begin importing. Since your league structure has I think 16 teams in 1871, you'll definitely have to leave the fictional players in place, as there won't be enough "pro's" to fill out the rosters. I'm not sure how OOTP would handle importing fictional and pro players though. I guess you could fill the teams with fictional players after the draft/import if there aren't enough. Lahman's DB could be tweaked to start before 1871, but would probably take a lot of time and work. You'd have to add player stats for batting, pitching, and fielding, and then teams.csv if you don't plan to use the draft. Also, don't forget to change the league in the batting and pitching csv's to show either AL or NL instead of AA and NA no matter how you want to handle rookies. If you don't do that, the ratings seem to get hosed.

09-23-2007, 12:53 PM	#5
JHruska Minors (Double A) Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: TN Posts: 133	There were 16 teams in the original 1857 season. Any reason you decided to go with 10 that year?